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Liverpool Football Club Thread - Salah Days


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57 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

Odd.  But for better goalkeeping from Alisson wed be going in 1-0 up🤷‍♂️

What? :ph34r:

 

Very poor today, no complaints at the result, we created very little and, like vs Brighton, the defending was all over the place.

 

Felt AOC was unlucky to be subbed for the non-entity that is Thiago and it says a lot a out our season so far that despite everything, we're only 2 points ahead of Arsenal. Arsenal! 

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16 minutes ago, Pockets said:


I dunno if you’re trying to suggest that excuses it somehow, but it doesn’t. It just demonstrates that there’s no reason for it beyond what’s starting to look like a pattern of complacency after decent results. 

 

No, I'm saying a result like that should spur the team on not go on to draw a game at home after being 2-0 up ans then play like utter dogshit the week after that.

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Just now, Stigweard said:

 

No, I'm saying a result like that should spur the team on not go on to draw a game at home after being 2-0 up ans then play like utter dogshit the week after that.

Even against Man Utd Klopp wasn't happy at the chances we gave away, so he knows defensively we've been pretty shonky at the moment. 

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3 minutes ago, spork said:

Were there even any chances other than the early Bruno one at 0-0?

Well Ronaldo had a couple of shots I think (and the disallowed goal of course), but you got through the middle a couple of times? I don't know, I was listening to it on the radio :lol:

 

Klopp did speak say it couple of days later though. 

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57 minutes ago, Gabe said:

What? :ph34r:

Just answering your utter bizarre sentence of..... but for a poor touch, we'd be trailing at half time.

 

Anyhow.  West Ham looked like they were in a cup final, we looked liked we were on the training pitch.  Very poor, they deserved it but hey ho, it's just one loss.  

 

Just hope for a positive result following the international break 

 

 

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Thinking back to the game yesterday, one thing I did notice again is TAA still spends too much time switching off and ball watching.  We all know he isn't the best defender in the world but he is a very good defender.  What he brings to us going forward is extremely important and we can't expect him to be as good one way as he is the other.  However, he needs to learn to concentrate his mind more which will help the whole of the defense to defend better.

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Also thinking back to the game and, whilst I think West Ham were good value for the win, I do sympathise with Klopp's frustrations. Their first goal could've gone either way, often the ref will blow for a free-kick when the opposition look at a 'keeper funny but once the ref gave it, VAR was unlikely to overturn it - and conversely I doubt they would've given it had the ref ruled it out. So that old 'consistency' argument again.

 

Likewise, for Cresswell's challenge, you'd see that given a fair few times out of ten. He was over the ball, both feet off the ground and had no control so it was certainly reckless. With 10-men for most of the game who knows how it would've gone?

 

It's all moot of course, and even back at 1-1 we did very little with the ball, save for Mane's volley and then a couple of chances after Origi pulled one back. Our next game is home vs Arsenal - and it's weird that considering how bad people said they were, if they win they would go above us. It does show we've had a fairly sluggish start to the season (too many draws already), though 4 points off top isn't anything really at this stage.

 

Still, I'm sure Klopp won't be happy about the team defensively; Robertson just doesn't looks low on confidence, VvD still looks a bit off (totally understandable still, but even so it's a concern) and TAA still has those lapses which back-up why Southgate doesn't trust him for England. As for Konate, was he dropped because of the Brighton game? He may or may not have made a difference, but everybody knows you should keep your CBs the same where you can and the chop-and-changing can't be too helpful, especially with VvD looking less than imperious (not just in terms of pace, but positionally I thought he was caught out yesterday.) Allison has looked a bit flappy too and should've done better with all three goals too.

 

A more general observation is that teams have been able to bully us a lot more now - Brentford did it, Brighton did it, West Ham did it. That's not really something I'm used to seeing and we have looked suspect at set pieces this season for the first time in a long time. Lots for Klopp to think about in the international break.

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West Ham fan in peace here. I think if you give a foul on Allison for the first goal then you'd have to remove opposition players in the box from corners. Oggy has already jumped, only has eyes on the ball and Allison jumps into him. He (the keeper) needs to either toughen up, or not spend his time trying to push players around the box as that is exactly why you conceded the third; he was too busy pushing Antonio and didn't have eyes on the ball.

 

THe Cresswell challenge is a funny one. He went in hard, which he is entitled to do. It looks bad in replays because his foot hits the ball high, and rolls over the top of it, which throws his legs into Henderson. He could have hurt Henderson but it would have been unintentional and while I think it was a yellow at absolute worst, there have been red cards given for less so I guess it could have gone either way. I also don't like how all the attention is on his tackle while nothing has been said about Jota elbowing Ogbonna in the face. Now he could claim it was accidental but the replays I've seen the ball is nowhere near and he doesn't need to stick the elbow out as he has his back turned. 

 

I'm also not sure why VVD is getting any stick. He pretty much was your defence and stopped at least 3 goals/shots on target. His tackle on Bowen in the box was a thing of beauty, absolutely timed to perfection.

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@Gabe

I don't think you are far off there to be fair.

West Ham were good value, they played a good counter attacking game and at set pieces basically we were out muscled too easily.  Someone should have been helping Allison out on those corners.

Robbo looked off the boil, VVD looks like he's struggling a little (but still far superior to most defenders out there) and we really struggled to break down that solid defence.

 

The Cresswell red card decision would have been bad enough without VAR, but with it, what the hell are they thinking?!

 

It's quite amazing how Arsenal have crept up though. They have a goal difference of ZERO at 6th in the table!!  Will be a close game but don't think they have the muscle to trouble us that way.

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5 minutes ago, Scruff said:

THe Cresswell challenge is a funny one. He went in hard, which he is entitled to do. It looks bad in replays because his foot hits the ball high, and rolls over the top of it, which throws his legs into Henderson. He could have hurt Henderson but it would have been unintentional and while I think it was a yellow at absolute worst, there have been red cards given for less so I guess it could have gone either way. I also don't like how all the attention is on his tackle while nothing has been said about Jota elbowing Ogbonna in the face. Now he could claim it was accidental but the replays I've seen the ball is nowhere near and he doesn't need to stick the elbow out as he has his back turned. 

 

I've genuinely not seen the Jota incident, I missed most of the first half.

 

The Cresswell one though is a red for me because attention doesn't come into it. He goes over the ball and catches Henderson up below the knee with the follow through.  Basically he wasn't in control.

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He's only out of control because he rolls over the top of the ball. It's a clean take of the ball but once his foot is thrown upwards by the ball he is going straight into Henderson so you're correct, he is out of control which is why I said it could have been given, even though I don't think it should have.

 

As for Jota, well, make your own mind but that elbow split Ogbonna's face open enough for him to have needed 10 mins worth of stitches (what the medics told Moyes which is why he was subbed as he didn't want us playing for 10 men for that amount of time).

 

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24 minutes ago, Scruff said:

He's only out of control because he rolls over the top of the ball. It's a clean take of the ball but once his foot is thrown upwards by the ball he is going straight into Henderson so you're correct, he is out of control which is why I said it could have been given, even though I don't think it should have.

 

As for Jota, well, make your own mind but that elbow split Ogbonna's face open enough for him to have needed 10 mins worth of stitches (what the medics told Moyes which is why he was subbed as he didn't want us playing for 10 men for that amount of time).

 

Yes you are right, only out of control because he rolls over the ball.

 

Jota certainly catches him.  Again hard to say if it's accidental (from that view) or not but surprised it wasn't looked at.  Of course accidental wouldn't mean it's not a card.

 

Not sure the guy on the tweet can say it's snide thuggery 🙄 though (unless there is another angle to see) and it's unlikely Klopp would actually bring it up if he isn't asked about it.

 

That all being said I still think West Ham deserved the win and they are a very good, organised outfit at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Scruff said:

West Ham fan in peace here. I think if you give a foul on Allison for the first goal then you'd have to remove opposition players in the box from corners. Oggy has already jumped, only has eyes on the ball and Allison jumps into him. He (the keeper) needs to either toughen up, or not spend his time trying to push players around the box as that is exactly why you conceded the third; he was too busy pushing Antonio and didn't have eyes on the ball.

 

THe Cresswell challenge is a funny one. He went in hard, which he is entitled to do. It looks bad in replays because his foot hits the ball high, and rolls over the top of it, which throws his legs into Henderson. He could have hurt Henderson but it would have been unintentional and while I think it was a yellow at absolute worst, there have been red cards given for less so I guess it could have gone either way. I also don't like how all the attention is on his tackle while nothing has been said about Jota elbowing Ogbonna in the face. Now he could claim it was accidental but the replays I've seen the ball is nowhere near and he doesn't need to stick the elbow out as he has his back turned. 

 

I'm also not sure why VVD is getting any stick. He pretty much was your defence and stopped at least 3 goals/shots on target. His tackle on Bowen in the box was a thing of beauty, absolutely timed to perfection.

 

For the first goal, I actually agree with you - but as I say, I can sympathise with Klopp's anger because a lot of the time that will be given as a free-kick (for a high-profile example we can go all the way back to Sol Campbell at WC 98.) I happen to think goalkeepers get far too much protection so I personally don't have any problem with that goal, well played West Ham is all I can say. I also agree that Allison was so preoccupied with Antonio for the third goal (I said so in here yesterday) that he was out of position when the ball went over him to Zouma. Again, good intelligence from West Ham.

 

The Cresswell challenge though is more controversial. Yes, his foot came off the ball - but that is exactly what going 'over the top' is and is very often condemned by pundits and fans alike because you are instantly out of control and can cause injuries. The fact Henderson didn't stay down is probably what saved him because I think it was a bad challenge, regardless of intent.

 

I also happen to think the Jota incident could've seen red. Every time you look at the replay I can't decide whether the twist of his jump brings his elbow out a little bit or if it was intentional. To be fair, the area above the eye doesn't need much impact to cause some damage, so I don't think the fact he was cut suggests there was a lot of force behind it, but yes, I think it warranted further review.

 

In both cases though VAR would have had a look and decided nothing needed doing, so <shrug>.

 

As for VvD, unless you'd watched a lot of him prior to his injury you probably wouldn't think there was much wrong. He's still a brilliant player, but his positional play in particular has been off this season. Often he wouldn't ever need to make tackles (indeed, his tackling stats were pretty low relatively to both other Liverpool players and across the league) because he would be so well positioned that he didn't need to make a tackle (very much in the Alan Hansen mould). Now, though, he's being caught out and having to intercept - I think that might've been true of the Bowen chance (I can't recall now)? And one of the goals from the corners was because he was caught on his feet I think? It's not just this game though, he's been just that ever so slightly bit off all season (Brentford was another game where he was at least partially involved in goals against us).

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Two poor results in the league so far, thought that on both we had a bit of bad luck and on another day they’d have been wins but doesn’t excuse the drop in concentration that’s worryingly becoming habit. Although I trust that Klopp will knock it out of them. Been great in the champions league so far so disappointed with this current league form. 

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