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I wonder if there are any good articles on the physics of striking a ball like that - why exactly such a 'sweet strike' seems to have so much free power, when someone can put twice as much effort in as Thiago seemingly did there and produce half the power. I found some covering spin - e.g. Roberto Carlos's free kick - but not so much power.

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2 hours ago, hmm said:

I wonder if there are any good articles on the physics of striking a ball like that - why exactly such a 'sweet strike' seems to have so much free power, when someone can put twice as much effort in as Thiago seemingly did there and produce half the power. I found some covering spin - e.g. Roberto Carlos's free kick - but not so much power.

 

Thiago's strike seems straightforward enough.

 

The ball is moving towards him and he trots onto the ball. His forward momentum and his strike creates a lot of force and the initial force of the ball coming towards him transfers the energy back into the ball.

 

Gerrard's 2006 FA Cup final goal was almost a little similar. Sure it wasn't a half volley, but it was moving toward him, he ran onto it, and used his momentum.

He wasn't quite as directly onto that one but consider that the ball was dropping as he hit it. That's additional force, and he took it and transferred it right back through the strike.

 

It's easy enough to see this ourselves. If you have kicked a ball back from where it came from or from a free kick/dead ball? You know which generates more power.

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Also having looked at both goals and my own super poor footballing history - hitting even somewhat horizontally across the ball generates more power.

Which is only really possible when the ball is off the ground.

 

It's how the human body is built. You get a much better whip by kicking around and through rather than straight on. The force applied is higher due to the weight you put behind it, your hip rotation is powering such a strike far more than if you were to lace it standing over a ball on the ground.

 

I once hit a volley with such a kicking motion and the ball absolutely beasted into the net. I was surprised. I the realised that technique, hitting the ball higher and arcing your leg out, gave me a whole lot of unexpected power. It was also from a bouncing ball that was slow, so it took my by surprise. (I couldn't have hit anything coming toward me quickly!).

 

If you look at Gerrard's goal he really gets the hell round and across the ball and he's smashed through it.

 

Thiago's doesn't need as much visible power because he's got momentum forward, across with the whip of his foot, and the bounce up from the half volley.

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Oh my word, Thiago! He’s turned into a goal machine.

 

EDIT: I didn’t spot in real-time just how good that was. The dummy to create the space to shoot absolutely sold the Saints defender, and was simply sublime. Pay attention when you see it, it’s just beautiful. 

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As someone who grew up in the 80s where seeing an all conquering Liverpool team sweep everyone before them was normal, how good would you say this side is? I know it’s almost impossible to compare eras but is Liverpool 2018-202x up there with anything from the Shankley/Paisley/Fagan/Dalglish (1st time) eras?  Does Salah get into an all time XI?

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I don’t remember the 80s, 1988 are considered to be incredibly  good but didn’t  play in Europe and lost to fucking Wimbledon 

 

Salah maybe but even in Premier League era we are stacked for attacking players - Fowler, Owen, Torres, Suarez…

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4 hours ago, Naysonymous said:

As someone who grew up in the 80s where seeing an all conquering Liverpool team sweep everyone before them was normal, how good would you say this side is? I know it’s almost impossible to compare eras but is Liverpool 2018-202x up there with anything from the Shankley/Paisley/Fagan/Dalglish (1st time) eras?  Does Salah get into an all time XI?

The 87-89 side was incredible (as were sides of the late 70s/early 80s) but in terms of attacking balance it is very good as a unit, rather than individual personnel. Salah's all-around game has to be up there, but Rush had a lot of the play built around his pace and hold-up ability too (for which I think he was vastly underrated.) Mane and Firmino vs Barnes & Beardsley? Steve McMahon/Ronnie Whelan vs Fabino and Henderson? Jan Molby alone was a more creative player than the whole of the current midfield put together.

 

Defensively is interesting again. Allison for GK, I think that's an easy decision, however much love there is for Grobbelaar - I just think he's a better all-around player, whereas Grobbelaar was a better personality on the pitch. You'd also take TAA and Robertson as full-backs, though a shout-out to Steve Nicol, who was a classy full-back in his day. CBs: Well, VVD would have to be there, but I'd partner him with Alan Hansen, even though he was post 30 by then. I think it's easy to forget just how good Hansen was, both on and off the ball. His positional awareness was fantastic and, like VVD, often meant danger was averted without having to make a tackle, because he was in the right place at the right time. His passing range was exceptional for a CB too and pioneered the whole playing out from the back that Liverpool enjoyed throughout the 80s.

 

To pick one or the other though and I'm going to be (possibly) controversial and go with the 87-89 team purely on the basis that I think this current team only works because of Klopp, whereas the 87-89 team was just full of fabulous players and I think another manager could also take them on to win trophies.

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I enjoyed the tail end of the 80s sides, and those 87-89 sides were imperious. That being said, this Klopp side is the one I’ve found the most joyful to watch, and the one I’ll cherish the most for however long I live. Was lucky to see the title winning side play at Anfield a few times before lockdown hit, and they were phenomenal, and probably the best side on the planet at the time*
 

Klopp may not win anything else during his remaining two and a half seasons but I don’t think that would damage his legacy. He’s rebuilt the club from the ground up, and while we’re no paupers, he has produced major success in an era when Manchester City really should win the league at a canter.
 

*I know the Club World Cup win suggests that anyway, and beating the Copa Libertadores champions is at least the best way to do so.

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This side is doing it against City, who scored the highest points total of all time. The 87-89 team had nobody anywhere near as good to contend with. The bar is far higher now than it ever has been before, and that's why I think the current LFC is the best LFC. Barnes, Beardsley, and Aldridge was special, and still would be today, but they were head and shoulders above the rest at the time.

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Not liking the narrative I'm hearing in the media that Liverpool will dominate and hammer Everton tonight.  We all know Derby games are good levellers for both teams, and it's likely as per usual Everton will be allowed to get away with a lot of niggly fouling due to it being a Derby and at Goodison.

 

I'd still be very disappointed not to get all 3 points though.

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1 hour ago, Chewylegs said:

Not liking the narrative I'm hearing in the media that Liverpool will dominate and hammer Everton tonight.  We all know Derby games are good levellers for both teams, and it's likely as per usual Everton will be allowed to get away with a lot of niggly fouling due to it being a Derby and at Goodison.

 

I'd still be very disappointed not to get all 3 points though.


Even if Liverpool were 58 points clear, on a winning streak of 800 games, all 15-0, and Everton were bottom with no points, their first team all out and only their u12s available and I still wouldn’t be confident going into a derby.

 

We’ve got win in nine at Goodison. They’ll play like it’s the only game they need to win all season, which in a way, it kind of is.

 

Hope for an early away goal to trigger fume. Even better if it’s Van Dijk and Pickford makes a howler (he won’t, he’ll likely play like Lev Yashin, and no doubt the Blueshite will Rafa their way to a 1-0 win)

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4 minutes ago, Azrael said:

 

Followed by a 99th minute winner from Origi 

After a spectacular blunder from Pickford that results in him injuring himself for 9 months. :ph34r:

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