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1 hour ago, Goose said:

Here we go - could it be that Arnold is really there and neither Bernard or Elsie can see him? 

 

 

 

If Arnold still exists at all it's as a Ghost in the Machine. I suspect we'll find this to be the case and the struggle for Westworld will come down to Ford's control of the Host's in the physical world and Arnold's control of the Hosts via their awakening/the Maze, which William/Teddy will surely find the centre of by the season's end.

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16 hours ago, Blunted said:

Hmmm has it actually been specified that Arnold is male or could it be a surname? I'm assuming at some point they have been referred to as a "he"? Definitely planning a rewatch of this soon.

 

I don't think it's been specified, and it'd be an interesting twist. I'm at a loss as to who Arnold could be though.

I suppose he could also be Ford's identical twin brother, and have replaced him and *pretended* to be Ford all this time, but...

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Hmm. I'm not sure about this episode - a few quite negative thoughts - I hope I'm way off. Major spoilers.

 

Spoiler

 

- it felt a little rushed, a little like 'we're three episodes from the end so let's get moving'. There was a bit too much going on - I think we caught sight of almost every character and plot strand within the show, and seemingly introduced another. 

 

There was a lot of exposition, and I think I preferred the Man in Black when we didn't know his backstory. There was much jumping of time lines (potentially) as well - the part at the end with Ford, Maeve and Bernard seemed to be after she had been killed by the man in black but before she became the madam. I also suspect, while it seems she regrets what she did (killing new Clementine) that it's actually all part of her plan.

 

I wish she'd have upgraded herself, because while the scene in which she cut the guy's throat was a shock, their reasons for allowing her to alter her programming and recruit an army without even raising an alarm, seem far fetched. While I get they need to protect their jobs and such, it seems a bit too much. And while they were planning on wiping her memory, you have to ask how they were ok with it getting to this stage. 

 

There seems an awful lot to wrap up in the two hours we have left and I suspect much will be left for the next season. I find myself enjoying Deleros' story less and less, and just when it looked interesting, it stopped. I think that the incident that is talked about, was her slaughtering the town and then killing herself. Could it be that she happened upon the town being 'taught' and simply cracked at the reality of it all? Maeve was there, as were people in white coats teaching others to dance. There has to be something here because both past-Delores and past-Maeve both attempted to kill themselves.

 

Maybe she's Wyatt. Logan's descent into evil seems to have accelerated too, hell, even Delores knew he'd killed that guy. I get it's a TV show and they need to move along to progress, but he's seemingly gone from whiter than white to happy-go-death a bit too quickly - and they both seemed to have cooled with each other.

 

I thought Jeffrey Wright's opening five minutes was brilliantly played, and it was interesting to later see that Ford lied to him about killing other people, and that he knows he lied. And I assume he will remember that. I think Hopkins and Wright's scenes were the best in the episode.

 

The British guy continues to be terrible, and I'm not a fan of the executive either, who talks in riddles and seems just too smug. 

 

The final part left me baffled - I'm assuming we're finally going to come face to face with Wyatt, yet the new woman implied the Man in Black was returning?

 

 

Maybe just not in the right frame of mind. Interested to read what other think of this one. 

 

Edit: I'm sure next week I'll moan about nothing happening. Sorry :( 

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Having just seen the 50 second preview for episode 9 I suspect 

 

Spoiler

We're going to see the reason William becomes the man in black, if he indeed does. The implication being Delores being tortured/raped/killed(?) while he is forced to watch.

 

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Still enjoying it. However, I think this might be a show that might benefit from being able to watch it at your own rate (ala Netflix). I get the feeling that the last couple of episodes will be a series of 'shocking' reveals that everyone figured out weeks ago and we'll be all:

 

 

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3 hours ago, Goose said:
Spoiler

The final part left me baffled - I'm assuming we're finally going to come face to face with Wyatt, yet the new woman implied the Man in Black was returning?

 

Spoiler

She was speaking to Theodore, which the formal version of Teddy, who used to roll with Wyatt. Perhaps the arrow in his chest won't be fatal, but then maybe Wyatt's gang are some sort of undead? Certainly the big guy with the horns took a great deal to bring down. The new girl is revealing that some hosts have memories of other hosts' previous roles. Perhaps this is what differentiates the maze from the rest of the park? It is a meta game where hosts and guests are more equal in terms of their knowledge..

 

4 hours ago, Goose said:
Spoiler


I wish she'd have upgraded herself, because while the scene in which she cut the guy's throat was a shock, their reasons for allowing her to alter her programming and recruit an army without even raising an alarm, seem far fetched. While I get they need to protect their jobs and such, it seems a bit too much. And while they were planning on wiping her memory, you have to ask how they were ok with it getting to this stage. 

 

 

Spoiler

I agree that this part of the plot is hard to accept, however it seems that Maeve had some kind of awakening experience all those years ago when her daughter was slaughtered and achieved 'consciousness' -- if only for a short time. We are supposed to believe that she is different. She is also built to have specific talents for reading and manipulating people. The oriental engineer is wrapped-up in his work and wants to make progress (remember his experiments with the bird) whereas the bearded guy is just a jobsworth pervert. I think the former is genuinely interested to see what happens and/or is in love with Maeve and/or is questioning the morality of the whole project and this is why he couldn't bring himself to wipe her.

 

A more wild theory is that Maeve will play a role in getting the data laden host out of the park. Everything that is being done to her is part of an espionage plan that the engineer is in on. Why he was working on simulating a bird in secret, a way to fly the data out?

 

4 hours ago, Goose said:
Spoiler

I thought Jeffrey Wright's opening five minutes was brilliantly played, and it was interesting to later see that Ford lied to him about killing other people, and that he knows he lied. And I assume he will remember that.

 

Spoiler

Presumably if the hosts in the park are having partial recall then at some point Bernard will, and that will be bad news for Ford. Likely Bernard has been knocking people off all over the place for Ford over the years. I can see Bernard Killing Ford at the end of the series.

 

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Did I miss something? Reading back over Comingsoon's rundown of this episode - 

 

Spoiler

They imply (or state) that in the second when Bernard asks Ford if he's ever got him to kill anyone else before, the flash of him killing someone else, is him killing Elsie.

 

Edit: Having just re-watched it and paused, it seems correct.

 

Spoiler

If that's the case, what does that imply? We saw Elsie on the phone with Bernard, but then he hung up and she found something else in the code. Next thing, she was grabbed by someone. That could give Bernard time to get to her and kill her, and wipe out any evidence of the event.

 

Bernard is also towing the line that Elsie is away on holiday, which we know is not true. He had a conversation and was told by someone else she had started her vacation, to which Bernard was quite surprised. He knew at that point she had not done that. After a while he stopped being concerned about this entirely. Again, implying his memory was, at least partially, erased.

 

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Did everyone else notice.. In the scene where Delores is revisiting her memory of the old (presumably original) town

 

.. we see the girl that Teddy and Man in Black meet. The girl who MIB says 'I thought they retired you.. Well I guess Ford likes to keep the pretty ones' 

 

Not entirely sure the significance of that, other than it being another strong hint (as if more still required) that we're seeing a huge cross section of timelines. I guess it also might imply that she (like Maeve and Delores) are all old style hosts, and so capable of 'going a bit wonky'

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If that's the case, what does that imply? We saw Elsie on the phone with Bernard, but then he hung up and she found something else in the code. Next thing, she was grabbed by someone. That could give Bernard time to get to her and kill her, and wipe out any evidence of the event.

 

Bernard is also towing the line that Elsie is away on holiday, which we know is not true. He had a conversation and was told by someone else she had started her vacation, to which Bernard was quite surprised. He knew at that point she had not done that. After a while he stopped being concerned about this entirely. Again, implying his memory was, at least partially, erased.

i read that as such:



 

bernard asks if hes ever had to do this before - genuinely not knowing the answer,  he then has a flashback to a pre-wipe memory of killing Elsie. AAnd what with everything we've seen from other hosts, he's going to one day remember these events from before the wipe we see Ford give him in the episode.  sort of like a big tell that Bernard will remember something of this to come.

im still digesting this episode it was a nice confluence of many threads while a solid advancement of the

main Maeve

storyline. probably some coherent thoughts in the next few days

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Bit confused about one thing.

 

Spoiler

Bernard killed Elsie it appears, but I thought it was the execs who were trying to get the information out of the park with that uplink. That certainly seemed to be the implication from the looks between Ford and the exec woman. So why would Ford send Bernard to kill her? Why would Ford be sending stuff out of the park? If he wanted to wouldn't he just send out Bernard or another host using the brain drive?

 

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Did everyone else notice.. In the scene where Delores is revisiting her memory of the old (presumably original) town
 

.. we see the girl that Teddy and Man in Black meet. The girl who MIB says 'I thought they retired you.. Well I guess Ford likes to keep the pretty ones' 

 
Not entirely sure the significance of that, other than it being another strong hint (as if more still required) that we're seeing a huge cross section of timelines. I guess it also might imply that she (like Maeve and Delores) are all old style hosts, and so capable of 'going a bit wonky'



She's the host that blokey in the white hat met at the start (also Elon musks ex bird)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Vanity Fair has it's usual article up with some interesting theories as per usual

 


 

Also, I was wondering if the MiBs daughter could be Charlotte? (the board rep)  It would make sense if he is an investor in the park that he would have input to who's on the board, and he does mention in his monologue that he has a "beautiful daughter"...

 
 

 

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It seems like the white hat=man in black theory has been shot down by that last episode;

 

 

Given that we saw him at the church structure which Ford visited at the start of his new project - or are we now claiming that Ford of 30 years ago was also an old man, and the entirety of his new storyline is set in the past? The flashback Dolored experienced even indicates there was a larger village around the area in the past.

 

The two characters just don't seem remotely like different stages of the same personality to me.

 

 

Killing a child just to see if he felt anything? Not William. A titan of industry and a famous philanthropist? Not William. His brother-in-law-to-be pretty much indicated he has no backbone in whatever company they work in.

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12 hours ago, Goose said:

Hmm. I'm not sure about this episode - a few quite negative thoughts - I hope I'm way off. Major spoilers.

 

  Hide contents

 

- it felt a little rushed, a little like 'we're three episodes from the end so let's get moving'. There was a bit too much going on - I think we caught sight of almost every character and plot strand within the show, and seemingly introduced another. 

 

There was a lot of exposition, and I think I preferred the Man in Black when we didn't know his backstory. There was much jumping of time lines (potentially) as well - the part at the end with Ford, Maeve and Bernard seemed to be after she had been killed by the man in black but before she became the madam. I also suspect, while it seems she regrets what she did (killing new Clementine) that it's actually all part of her plan.

 

I wish she'd have upgraded herself, because while the scene in which she cut the guy's throat was a shock, their reasons for allowing her to alter her programming and recruit an army without even raising an alarm, seem far fetched. While I get they need to protect their jobs and such, it seems a bit too much. And while they were planning on wiping her memory, you have to ask how they were ok with it getting to this stage. 

 

There seems an awful lot to wrap up in the two hours we have left and I suspect much will be left for the next season. I find myself enjoying Deleros' story less and less, and just when it looked interesting, it stopped. I think that the incident that is talked about, was her slaughtering the town and then killing herself. Could it be that she happened upon the town being 'taught' and simply cracked at the reality of it all? Maeve was there, as were people in white coats teaching others to dance. There has to be something here because both past-Delores and past-Maeve both attempted to kill themselves.

 

Maybe she's Wyatt. Logan's descent into evil seems to have accelerated too, hell, even Delores knew he'd killed that guy. I get it's a TV show and they need to move along to progress, but he's seemingly gone from whiter than white to happy-go-death a bit too quickly - and they both seemed to have cooled with each other.

 

I thought Jeffrey Wright's opening five minutes was brilliantly played, and it was interesting to later see that Ford lied to him about killing other people, and that he knows he lied. And I assume he will remember that. I think Hopkins and Wright's scenes were the best in the episode.

 

The British guy continues to be terrible, and I'm not a fan of the executive either, who talks in riddles and seems just too smug. 

 

The final part left me baffled - I'm assuming we're finally going to come face to face with Wyatt, yet the new woman implied the Man in Black was returning?

 

 

Maybe just not in the right frame of mind. Interested to read what other think of this one. 

 

Edit: I'm sure next week I'll moan about nothing happening. Sorry :( 

 

I completely agree with the upgrade reasoning being totally unsatisfactory. And it's a mcguffin that's likely to lead to something big.

 

The only way it's not ridiculous, for me, is if

 

The tech who championed her upgrades is a host, either under her control or fulfilling some kind of prophecy.

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13 hours ago, Goose said:

Hmm. I'm not sure about this episode - a few quite negative thoughts - I hope I'm way off. Major spoilers.

 

  Hide contents

There was much jumping of time lines (potentially) as well - the part at the end with Ford, Maeve and Bernard seemed to be after she had been killed by the man in black but before she became the madam.

 

 

 

I didn't have a problem with that.

 

Spoiler

 

It was simply acting as a flashback for both MIB and Maeve: he was telling the story of killing Maeve and her "daughter" a year earlier, and we also saw bits of that from her POV at the same time, such as her being taken back to the lab after MIB had killed her (clearly was after that, from dialogue and clothing).

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Sirloin said:

Bit confused about one thing.

 

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Bernard killed Elsie it appears, but I thought it was the execs who were trying to get the information out of the park with that uplink. That certainly seemed to be the implication from the looks between Ford and the exec woman. So why would Ford send Bernard to kill her? Why would Ford be sending stuff out of the park? If he wanted to wouldn't he just send out Bernard or another host using the brain drive?

 

 

IIRC, Elsie stated in that episode that the uplink was also being used by someone else, in addition to the person (later revealed to be Theresa) who was sending the IP off-site.

 

Spoiler

If Bernard killed Elsie for Ford, then yeah it implies that the someone else was Ford. We don't need to know his motives yet, but it seems it would be easier to beam data out the way Theresa was than to send a host out of the park as the Sexy Young Exec has now been forced to resort to. He may also have been covering up something done by someone else (Arnold?). Ford knows something's going on, in addition to his sinister scheme - remember the scene with the Young Ford Host, didn't it kill the dog because of a voice?

 

 

29 minutes ago, Darwock said:

It seems like the white hat=man in black theory has been shot down by that last episode;

 

 

  Hide contents

Given that we saw him at the church structure which Ford visited at the start of his new project - or are we now claiming that Ford of 30 years ago was also an old man, and the entirety of his new storyline is set in the past? The flashback Dolored experienced even indicates there was a larger village around the area in the past.

 

 

The two characters just don't seem remotely like different stages of the same personality to me.

 

 

  Hide contents

Killing a child just to see if he felt anything? Not Logan. A titan of industry and a famous philanthropist? Not Logan. His brother-in-law-to-be pretty much indicated he has no backbone in whatever company they work in.

 

 

I don't thing it's been "shot down".

 

Spoiler

 

35 (?) years ago: Some sort of incident where Delores goes on a shooting spree at that "training town".

 

<town is deliberately buried>

 

30 years ago: Delores, off loop, has her adventure/journey with White-Hat William, and finds the town from before, now buried.

 

Present: Ford decides to dig up the old town, for his "new narrative".

 

 

 

 

White hat = William, not Logan. Logan is his black hat future brother-in-law. And we've already seen William change from being the "spineless" guy he was initially. If his scenes are 30 years ago, then there's no reason he can't be

 

Spoiler

a titan of industry and a famous philanthropist

 

by the "present". We're seeing William's journey in his scenes, and it isn't over.

 

Spoiler

And if Logan doesn't make it out alive, William could later end up with the company due to marrying the boss' daughter.

 

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Mixed up the names (now fixed), I knew I was going to do that as I was posting it but figured I ought to trust my instincts as I should know who they are by now!

 

Got confused by a previous poster saying Dolores knew Logan had killed that guy, I don't think Logan killed anyone in that episode?

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