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Better Call Saul!


Captain Kelsten
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I still don't really get 

 

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why they had it in for Howard so much. I mean, so much that they would go to such lengths to try to ruin his career. 

 

I have a shocking memory though so have probably forgotten important parts of previous series.

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23 minutes ago, christaylor said:

Still devastated about 

 

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Howard. :(

 


 

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Just watched it - feels like one of the most tragic deaths of a TV character that wasn’t entirely ‘innocent’


Jimmy and Kim do all that horrible shit to him and then he gets brutally murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


I was planning a rewatch from series 1 in the mid season break - not sure whether to wait until it’s all played out now as knowing what happens to Howard is going to colour how I view him throughout, but now I’m wondering if I need to wait in Kim’s fate.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Camel said:

I still don't really get 

 

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why they had it in for Howard so much. I mean, so much that they would go to such lengths to try to ruin his career. 

 

I have a shocking memory though so have probably forgotten important parts of previous series.

 

Spoiler

Wasn't it all about the Sandpiper deal? Jimmy wanted the money and the share he was due ASAP. Lead counsel (Howard) was holding out for a better deal and Jimmy couldn't do anything about it. So they had to discredit Howard in front of everyone to make the deal happen. 

 

As Howard said, Jimmy was like a child wanting his money NOW.

 

 

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I think part of it is that Howard really doesn't deserve what Jimmy and Kim do to him. He's a bit slimy, and it's very much up for debate whether the Sandpiper clients are best served by him dragging out the case for years trying to get as big a settlement as possible, but fundamentally, he seems like a decent enough guy. Jimmy has pinned a lot of his guilt for how he treated Chuck on Howard, and has also transferred a lot of his resentment for how Chuck treated him onto Howard as well. Ultimately, Jimmy is doing this because he needs to take out his pain on someone. He can't resolve anything with Chuck because he's dead, and can't accept any blame himself because that bit of his personality doesn't work properly.

 

Kim is a slightly different story. I suspect she's inherited a bit of Jimmy's dislike, and she was patronised by Howard a fair bit too. She also seems like she gets a bit too caught up in the scheme, and dehumanises Howard to the point where he stops being a person and just becomes a mark, because she just loves a bit of the old scamming.

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13 minutes ago, K said:

I think part of it is that Howard really doesn't deserve what Jimmy and Kim do to him. He's a bit slimy, and it's very much up for debate whether the Sandpiper clients are best served by him dragging out the case for years trying to get as big a settlement as possible, but fundamentally, he seems like a decent enough guy. Jimmy has pinned a lot of his guilt for how he treated Chuck on Howard, and has also transferred a lot of his resentment for how Chuck treated him onto Howard as well. Ultimately, Jimmy is doing this because he needs to take out his pain on someone. He can't resolve anything with Chuck because he's dead, and can't accept any blame himself because that bit of his personality doesn't work properly.

 

Kim is a slightly different story. I suspect she's inherited a bit of Jimmy's dislike, and she was patronised by Howard a fair bit too. She also seems like she gets a bit too caught up in the scheme, and dehumanises Howard to the point where he stops being a person and just becomes a mark, because she just loves a bit of the old scamming.

 

I did think it might just be this. In which case, I feel the writers have taken things a bit too far. But it's still the best thing on TV so ...

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26 minutes ago, Timmo said:

 

Controversial opinion: Mike is one of the worst characters and a caricature.

 

I would have disagreed with you not too long ago, but over the last few episodes he really has become the least interesting character. Everyone else has been getting their time to shine, I am still holding out hope for the last few episodes to dig a little deeper into his character, perhaps pick up the thread of

Spoiler

his promise to protect Nacho's dad and how that plays out.

But then again, as there's only six episodes left, I'm not sure how much screen time I want sacrificed on Mike at this point.

 

Yesterday's episode had me on the edge of my seat, and Mike was easily the weakest link in the whole thing. Someone above said that people on this forum like to complain about characters being stupid to further the plot. 

Spoiler

Sadly I think Mike in this last episode qualifies for that. I would have pegged him to be smarter than to underestimate Lalo and fall for his play on the phone and just walk right into his trap. I can only assume he's also pulled anyone he's had watching Nacho's dad? Hope not!

 

 

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On 25/05/2022 at 08:43, scottcr said:
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Kim is going to use ‘the cleaner’ - I’m sure of that.

 

we’re also going to get at least one entire episode in post breaking bad world, I’m sure of that too. The Netflix picture for this series is bald Jimmy with a red coat. 

 

Spoiler

I’m also sure that the passing mention of the vacuum cleaner repairman was there to set up further post-BB scenes. Then again, this series thrives on misdirection, so it’s not certain that the repairman will have anything directly to do with Kim’s fate.

 

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1 hour ago, Timmo said:

 

Controversial opinion: Mike is one of the worst characters and a caricature.

 

I dunno if that's that controversial - he's basically Hyper-Competent Security Guy and has been for most of his time in both shows.

 

I just enjoy seeing those hyper-competent bits play out.

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Just caught up now, fuck me.

 

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I was expecting this to be the last we see of Howard but I thought he'd have some kind of stress-related heart attack. When there was the knock on the door and it was Howard I forgot all about Lalo briefly and relaxed, then when he appeared I shit myself as much as they did. Small consolation with his brain splattered on their apartment wall and all that but he had them both absolutely bang on

 

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Mr Show has a handful of BCS actors in it. 

 

Lalo just turned up at Saul's place to see the reaction.  In his version of events Saul has no reason to believe Lalo was dead.  Saul's reaction shows he was aware of Nachos plan. 

 

And Howard?  I think I get it.  Breaking Bad was all about the transformation of Walter White to Scarface.  He insists he is doing it all for his family but by the end he's doing it for himself and loving every minute.  He's lost the focus, initially making money to pay his bills, and ending with more money than he could spend in 20 lifetimes, his wife spraying it for silverfish.  Walter starts with a goal but by the end he's having too much fun and has taken it way too far. He watched Jane die, lost his family, etc. 

 

In BCS we have the same thing.  Saul and Kim did a handful of cons together, and enjoyed it. When Saul threw bowling balls at Howard's car, it seemed to me to have crossed a massive line.  Sure Howard's made bad decisions but he liked Jimmy and even offered him a job.  But Jimmy is blinded by the fun he is having, and, just like Walter, he's taken it way to far and Kim has become a driver for that behaviour as well.  The two of them are so in love with their con games that they're making out while listening to the phone.  

 

Now, Lalo comes back and Saul's reaction is "shit, I thought you were dead".  He shouldn't think that. So Lalo knows that Saul knew there was some sort of plan.  Lalo shoots Howard. And instantly, Kim and Jimmy snap out of it.  They were too caught up in the laughs and they were going to burn Howard to the ground but Howard would bounce back.  He always does.  But not this time.  And now, The story differs.  Walt loved being Heisenberg.  Jimmy Loved being Saul.  But Howard is dead now.  I think Kim will see the error or her ways, while Saul doubles down. Saul will do whatever he can to not upset the cartel, while Kim will run away as fast as she can.

 

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Mike told Jimmy that Lalo was due to be killed later that night.  I reckon Jimmy's reaction to Lalo being back was more "oh my god I thought you were dead" than "oh shit Lalo is back".  But that's just my own interpretation. Although Vince Gilligan is my Uncle and he works for Nintendo.

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