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Better Call Saul!


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11 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

Was there any clarification given on whether Kim

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left the chud she was living with in episode 12? Was he supposed to be her new husband? That was one of the only bits in the final two episodes that didn't quite sit right with me - he was a little bit too boring, even for the boring version of Kim, and the bit where they were having sex was just horrible, especially as we never saw anything as explicit as that between Kim and Jimmy.

 

How did that guy feel about her volunteering late at night at the law office in Florida? How did she explain to him that she had to fly thousands of miles across the country to New Mexico to give Howard's widow the affidavit, then back again to go to Jimmy's trial, then to the Rocky Mountain prison where he ultimately ended up? A short scene where she walked out on him would have cleared a lot of this up, or even a passing remark from one of her Floridian girlfriends at work - "How are you doing living on your own now?" - something like that.

 

They could even have shown Kim married with a really nice (but still boring) guy, and with children of her own, when Jimmy makes contact with her again. That would have added even more complexity to her character. I get the feeling that there was a whole additional Kim in Florida episode that the writers had to leave out.

 

 

Spoiler

He's not in it because he's probably the least important character they introduced.

 

He also wasn't her husband. You see him driving away from her house after the "party" as if they are together but he was just staying over for it.

 

There wasn't any reason to show any of those characters relationship to her. One look at how she was dressed and seemed to have visually changed when she visited the prison was enough to tell the audience that she's left that fake "life" behind.

 

Showing anything else about her life at the end would have taken everything away from the final scene. 

 

It helps to think of the whole thing as a love story between Kim and Jimmy. The importance of any other people in their lives then falls away.

 

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Did anyone else think that after Kim went to see Jimmy…

 

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…in prison and he mentioned 86 years, that she got a twinkle in her eye and started to plan a way to get him out? It would be nice to think that in the future they spend their remaining years battling the legal system, which they both love.

 

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58 minutes ago, James Lyon said:

OK, I'll be the dumb one about the ending:

 

 

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He changed his plea to a confession because he wanted to help Kim from being sued. But surely he could have done that without admitting to everything else? Was it just that he felt guilty and that she'd never forgive him if he didn't confess?

 

 

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He was ultimately taking Kim's advice, and "turning himself in". But in the truest sense of confession, as a catharsis. And he needed Kim there to help him get the guts to do it, and also essentially as a way to say sorry to her, and to show he could change.

 

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Listened to the companion podcast for the final episode last night and Bob Odenkirk had the brilliant idea that when 
 

Spoiler

When Kim passed him the cigarette, she also passed him a serrated tea spoon so that he could start tunnelling out, Great Escape style. I’m choosing to believe that’s what she did. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Benny said:

One look at how she was dressed and seemed to have visually changed when she visited the prison was enough to tell the audience that she's left that fake "life" behind.

 

Showing anything else about her life at the end would have taken everything away from the final scene. 

 

I thought that she had just 

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dressed like that as she was disguising herself as a lawyer - she used her old barrister card, with no expiration date, to get in to see Jimmy in the first place, after all.

 

And I agree that we didn't need to see anything about Kim's other life in the very final scenes of episode 13, but I still would have liked something to flesh out Florida Kim a bit more. Kim suddenly fiddling about with sprinkler brochures, agonising over the best way to make potato salad, having horrible sex with a Hawaiian shirt type was just so divorced from the brilliant lawyer Kim we've grown to know over the last 6 seasons that it felt a bit jarring. More so than Saul's change to Gene, who was still obviously discontented with his new life.

 

I think Kim married with kids in Florida, mostly happy, but still with a nagging discontentment, could have also worked if it was spread over a couple of episodes. Sort of like the ending of La La Land, where Emma Stone's character 

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has made it, is happily married, but still feels that old spark when she and her husband go to Ryan Gosling's club.

 

I don't think something like that would have taken anything away from what she and Jimmy still have, and will always have.

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4 minutes ago, JPL said:

Did anyone else think that after Kim went to see Jimmy…

 

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…in prison and he mentioned 86 years, that she got a twinkle in her eye and started to plan a way to get him out? It would be nice to think that in the future they spend their remaining years battling the legal system, which they both love.

 

 

I had a 'bet' with my wife just before we watched the show

 

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that Kim would end up representing Jimmy as a lawyer, which didn't happen (she still wasn't a lawyer when she visited Jimmy) but you could speculate that for the future.

 

I think getting some time knocked off is the best that Jimmy could hope for, get out in his 70s if he's lucky. I hope Kim continues to visit him over the years. Gimme an episode of this visit every 5 years or so.

 

I enjoyed the final run of episodes - I feel good about the ending, and sad that it's gone. Some BB spoilers are included in my thoughts below.

 

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I think the writers did a great thing by giving themselves lots of space to wind down from the Lalo/Gus/Howard conclusion - it freed up a lot of time to focus on Jimmy and Kim. Lesser shows would be driving that storyline until much nearer the end, leaving far less time for a gentle conclusion to feel as satisfying as this did.

 

I'm listening to the podcast this morning and Bob Odenkirk suggests that BB's big, action-packed finale and conclusions allowed them to do BCS this way. I'm struggling to think of another example where we had a TV prequel drama where a lot of 'in between' character fates were known (Mike, Gus etc.) which perfectly removes a lot of potential dread from the idea of Kim's confession AND Jimmy being in prison.

 

The only dread I had was that Jimmy was going to land Kim in it (an attempted murder on Gus? Pinning Howard's death on her?) to do less than the measly 7 years and get his mint choc chip. Jimmy referenced that horrific BB scene where all Mike's guys and a lawyer were killed in prison (that scene absolutely haunts me still tbh, it was so brutal). I was glad to know he was doing ok in prison and all the potential revenge seekers are dead. Phew.

 

Overall, I liked this series in the same way I liked Mad Men - watching it weekly over the years, and taking in all the little details of each episode. I think BCS is far better and when it's tense, it's extremely tense, but still, I think the two shows have similarities of a very rich, dense show with the characters at the forefront.

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The two uses of colour during the black and white scenes are interesting. 

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The first happens when Gene is forced to confront one of his Better Call Saul promotional videos, you see the light from the screen reflected in his glasses and the yellow images flicker and dance in his eyes like the flames of hell. He is at once repulsed, frightened, excited...he can't look away. To use the flame later during the reconciliation between Jimmy and Kim showed that fire was now under their control, they have mastered it. For all the expectation that the black and white scene would turn back to colour, this was a wonderful way of handling it. Their lives will never be full of colour again, certainly not to that level of intensity, and they are good with that.

 

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Great ending.

 

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Really satisfying way to wrap things up. Saul in a courtroom (of course) facing judgement for a lifetime of grifting and putting himself first. Which if we are really honest with ourselves is probably how a lot of people go through life. His punishment isn't  severe (he survives) but ultimately he's sentenced spend the rest of his life being himself, living and working with other criminals like him. We know from the bus scene that as far as the inmates are concerned he will be Saul, not Jimmy.

 

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12 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

 

I thought that she had just 

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dressed like that as she was disguising herself as a lawyer - she used her old barrister card, with no expiration date, to get in to see Jimmy in the first place, after all.

 

And I agree that we didn't need to see anything about Kim's other life in the very final scenes of episode 13, but I still would have liked something to flesh out Florida Kim a bit more. Kim suddenly fiddling about with sprinkler brochures, agonising over the best way to make potato salad, having horrible sex with a Hawaiian shirt type was just so divorced from the brilliant lawyer Kim we've grown to know over the last 6 seasons that it felt a bit jarring. More so than Saul's change to Gene, who was still obviously discontented with his new life.

 

I think Kim married with kids in Florida, mostly happy, but still with a nagging discontentment, could have also worked if it was spread over a couple of episodes. Sort of like the ending of La La Land, where Emma Stone's character 

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has made it, is happily married, but still feels that old spark when she and her husband go to Ryan Gosling's club.

 

I don't think something like that would have taken anything away from what she and Jimmy still have, and will always have.

 

They already did all they needed to with that though:

 

Spoiler

Like all things in Better Call Saul, the clothes serve more than a literal meaning.

 

The last part we see of her "fake" life was her telling her office and leaving early, to go volunteer. I took that as very much a visual representation that she's already moving on. She made that decision while she was eating lunch with her "friends". You could see the wheels starting to turn in her eyes, even as she makes no comments on the questions they ask her, she was making her mind up.

 

So everything subsequent to that is about her and Jimmy. There is nothing else to be gleaned from how she's living her life as, narratively, she's already moved on.

 

And why does Kim need to be married to be happy? That would be awful. Everything is about them alone, in the end.

 

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1 minute ago, Benny said:

 

They already did all they needed to with that though:

 

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The last part we see of her "fake" life was her telling her office and leaving early, to go volunteer. I took that as very much a visual representation that she's already moving on. She made that decision while she was eating lunch with her "friends". You could see the wheels starting to turn in her eyes, even as she makes no comments on the questions they ask her, she was making her mind up.

 

So everything subsequent to that is about her and Jimmy. There is nothing else to be gleaned from how she's living her life as, narratively, she's already moved on.

 

 

Indeed

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and in one line when they asked her what "i forget his name because he was so forgettable" thought of the place, she said I don't know what he thought about it. Like, I don't know anything about this guy, and he certainly doesn't know anything about me.

 

All in all, some of the best telly I have ever watched. I really appreciated

 

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The slow burn at the end. Everything after Lalo's comeuppance was treated almost as epilogue and I've always loved a really good epilogue.  The depth of acting, was superb. How much could be told about Kim's thoughts in the courtroom with just the tinniest hint of a change of expression. From solid poker face, to just the faintest twitch of a smile. Amazing.

 

In hindsight, why on earth did I ever think Jimmy would betray Kim! Of course he wouldn't, he'd bend over backwards to do anything for her. And so, how did they make me think that he would betray her until that very point in the courtroom when he changed his testimony. I feel stupid for ever thinking it, but also appreciate that it was a bait and switch by master story tellers. They'd really ramped up the Saul side and showed him as the nasty piece of work he really was, but he was still Jimmy under all of that. 

 

When he walked into the courthouse, I was itching for him to get away with it - even despite his behaviour over the previous few episodes. Then Kim was there and I was like, oh no! Do I really want him to get away with it, but land Kim in the shit? :(:( 

 

And of course, the story played out the only way it could, Jimmy turns up and lands Saul in it to save himself and Kim and their future relationship. Absolutely Brilliant.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ZOK said:

Amazing thing about the bunker flashback is Walt actually looks exactly the same now as he does in BB.

 

That really was brilliant, wasn't it? Much better than the Conehead he wore in El Camino, which just looked wrong. He must have really shaved his head this time - guess they scheduled him in between acting jobs.

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A stunningly beautiful ending to a fantastic story, full of rich and compelling characters depicted by incredible performers and constructed by the best of the best of the best production crew. I can hardly comprehend how this much talent winds up working on a single show (over 12 seasons no less) while never delivering a bad episode and providing satisying arcs at every scale and timeframe. A brilliant work of transcendent art. For my money this was "better" than the BB finale and overall, but I really consider the whole thing as a single piece.

There's an interesting interview with Bob and Rhea here where she talks about her approach to that scene which I enjoyed. Spoilers obviously.
 

 

Rhea has been fantastic throughout and deserves every award going. This has surely cemented Odenkirk as a big deal performer in the classic sense? He could dominate Hollywood prestige roles for decades off the back of this. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jamie John said:

 

I thought that she had just 

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dressed like that as she was disguising herself as a lawyer - she used her old barrister card, with no expiration date, to get in to see Jimmy in the first place, after all.

 

And I agree that we didn't need to see anything about Kim's other life in the very final scenes of episode 13, but I still would have liked something to flesh out Florida Kim a bit more. Kim suddenly fiddling about with sprinkler brochures, agonising over the best way to make potato salad, having horrible sex with a Hawaiian shirt type was just so divorced from the brilliant lawyer Kim we've grown to know over the last 6 seasons that it felt a bit jarring. More so than Saul's change to Gene, who was still obviously discontented with his new life.

 

I think Kim married with kids in Florida, mostly happy, but still with a nagging discontentment, could have also worked if it was spread over a couple of episodes. Sort of like the ending of La La Land, where Emma Stone's character 

  Reveal hidden contents

has made it, is happily married, but still feels that old spark when she and her husband go to Ryan Gosling's club.

 

I don't think something like that would have taken anything away from what she and Jimmy still have, and will always have.


I don’t think we needed more about Kim’s Florida life. They were telling us she was wearing a hair shirt, and from that the story played out to the confession.

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14 minutes ago, Kodamarama said:

I’ve also now read it was a promo for the final part of the series - apologies if so.  Seems to be conflicting thoughts, and can’t verify on Netflix due to trailers for Never Have I Ever 😐  

 

It can't be a promo, as it spoils Jimmy:

 

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getting caught.

 

I can't see Gilligan and Gould allowing that in a million years.

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Regarding that "outro"...I watched the High Seas version which started with that but the shot ended differently

 

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Empty hanger in the version shown as the intro, replaced by a prison uniform in the version shown as the outro

 

801939588_BetterCallSaul-S06E13-SaulGone-WEBDL-1080p.mkv_snapshot_00_00.19_2022_08.17_11_38_50.thumb.jpg.0c06e548648fc30e20a7213d2d5f4390.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Benny said:

And why does Kim need to be married to be happy? That would be awful. Everything is about them alone, in the end.

Spoiler

I don't think she needed to be married to be happy, necessarily, but it would have made her act of going completely off the reservation, moving to Florida, working for a water sprinkler company and abandoning the law entirely more credible. Kim's pull to the dark side was always as strong, if not stronger, than Jimmy's, so having someone in Florida to keep her grounded and to stop her straying from the path would have made sense, and I didn't get that from the nameless boyfriend character.

 

I just couldn't see how she could be happily working in an office and attending barbeques for six years without erring. It's only once she gets the call from Gene/Jimmy that her discontentment is apparent. I understand that, by leaving Albuquerque and Jimmy, she wanted to start over, but she didn't need to completely transform her identity in the way that Saul was obliged to. Why go to Florida in the first place? And if there, surely with her competence she should have been running the water sprinkler company, or been employed in some other form of public service, unrelated to the law?

 

Ultimately, I didn't believe in boring Florida Kim's persona. Thankfully, we only see it for the first 15 minutes of the penultimate episode.

 

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Spoiler

Not really: "her act of going completely off the reservation" reaction to her and Jimmy's relationship being so toxic those around them and to the horror of Howard being shot in front of her was to completely shut down and reinvent her life into something utterly dead and unthreatening or requiring any engagement from her. She had shut her entire being down and was coasting along to survive.

 

She had kept herself grounded and not straying from the path precisely by doing the above. She didn't need someone else to help her do that when she had deadened herself on her own terms. That's the strength of her character.

 

But after Jimmy's confession she had been finally freed from having to live that purgatory.

 

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Spoiler

Florida is the prison she made for herself. As someone* already said, it’s her hair shirt - a monastic life with almost no opportunities to be Slippin’ Kimmy.  
 

Other than perhaps to keep working for that free legal firm, I personally doubt Kim even goes back to Florida after the trial.  Jimmy fell on his sword to absolve her - she’s going to make the best of herself now to honour that sacrifice. 
 

Wishing a kid-filled life for Kim running a sprinkler company in suburban Florida??  Goddamnit Jamie John!  If Hieronymous Bosch was working now, that’s what he’d be painting.

 

* ZOK, may all fear and worship him 

 

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12 hours ago, p1nseeker said:

One question about the finale:

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Saul said he was kidnapped by Walt and Jessie 2 years ago. Surely it's longer ago than that? 

 

 

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It's plausible.

 

Breaking Bad takes place over two years, but the vast majority of it is in the space of a year - Walt turns 50 in the first episode, and 51 partway through the last season, shortly before he and Saul part ways. He's 52 in the finale.

 

So that would mean you've got around 18-21 months or so between Walt and Saul getting new identities, and the post-BB events of Better Call Saul. Add another 6-9 months and it'd still fall within the space of "two years ago".

 

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