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This is working as intended. As revlob says, it's about the ordering of the battlecry/deathrattle effects that makes it like that. It should be more intuitive, but it's not. This is the specific ordering that made this happen, if you're interested:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/306npt/official_confirmation_on_battlecrysecret/

Yes, it's not intuitive and it favours those who have played longer.

Maybe it's a good thing.

Maybe not...

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Fair enough, then the mechanic is working as intended. It's not a bug, but it seems for Mirror Entity it works out badly.

Step 8 in that list reads as a repeat of step 1. And it's this repeat of the step in that workflow that screws over the active player.

The card text for Mirror Entity is "When your opponent plays a minion, summon a copy of it.". The active player plays his minion before the secret is even pulled from the deck, so it's always going to feel unfair.

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Fair enough, then the mechanic is working as intended. It's not a bug, but it seems for Mirror Entity it works out badly.

Step 8 in that list reads as a repeat of step 1. And it's this repeat of the step in that workflow that screws over the active player.

The card text for Mirror Entity is "When your opponent plays a minion, summon a copy of it.". The active player plays his minion before the secret is even pulled from the deck, so it's always going to feel unfair.

You haven't finished playing your minion until the battlecry ends. The battlecry minion has to carry out their battlecry before it is played - this means the action of the battlecry plus any subsequent effects take place before your minion slumps their arse down on the board. If it was just a boulderfist ogre it would have just slumped down. But because the mad scientist is played first - their effect takes priority in ending before the battlecry does - hence the mirror entity activates because for the battlecry minion to finally sit on the board - it has to go battlecry start - battlecry triggers deathrattle - deatrattle takes priority as played first - deathrattle triggers instant effect of secret - battlecry ends - minion played.

Before this used to be random and all up in the air - now the effect system has some order. It isn't the most user friendly thing in the world but the game also can't have some form of complexity without having stuff you need to think out before you throw stuff down - now you know how it works - you know for next time! Magic is way more convulted with the way shit just goes back and forth with instants and phases etc. This thing isn't RNG - it is a little obscure, but I'm all for something that leads to more well thought out plays - hearthstone is a little too much just throw stuff on the board without thinking of things interact with each other on the most basic level so I'm happy about stuff like this. If everything was obvious to a newcomer early on it would show how little immediate turn interaction depth there was in the game

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The rules are clear, I understand why it happened now.

What I'm saying is that unless you know that this rule is in the game, the result of this play feels 100% counter intuitive. Hence the reams of reddit threads and pseudocode being used to explain it.

The tears are extra salty as for the most part the game does an excellent job of telling you what's going to happen when you take an action.

You haven't finished playing your minion until the battlecry ends. The battlecry minion has to carry out their battlecry before it is played - this means the action of the battlecry plus any subsequent effects take place before your minion slumps their arse down on the board.

This isn't what it feels like though, as your Fire Elemental is slapped down on the board before you can choose where the damage goes.

If the damage was directed before the Fire Elemental hits the floor, akin to when you make a choice with Wrath, then it would be more understandable.

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I understand that but this is where the level of players distinguishes - I don't believe every single effect and outcome should be clearly explained or dumbed down - you had something happen, you clearly thought it was naturally strange, you sought out to why it happened and you learnt something new. Most of what I've learned about hearthstone has been outside of the game by watching insane plays or experts in tournaments, my point isn't that you were a dummy because I learnt the rule the same way you did, but I guess I'm saying I'm glad it is that way because they only way they could make that more user friendly is to dumb down how it works for an already rng dependent/smorc game :)

Fire elemental for example just feels like he is slapped down because you have to choose something and he does it - but that is the surface game ie the immediate stuff that happens on the board, there is the calculation and order of events behind the surface game and realising and understanding the difference is why experts at the game make such insane plays with the exact same decks and rng everyone else has to work with.

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Yeah, I kinda agree and I'm not butt hurt about it. It just seems like for Fire Elemental, if the game made you choose where your fireball went before the minion dropped as a graphical representation of what's happening then Blizzard could have saved a lot of confusion!

Check this, some unrelated oddness.

This guy pulled a Doomguard from an Unstable Portal. It had some weird history that wasn't relevant to our match. Not a Ragnaros or Flamestrike in sight!

jy6pJhO.png

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So I have decided I need to work out my full time games so I can actually start enjoying them to the full.

Have decided on this as my card game of choice. How essential are the expansion packs early on?

The only card that really sees a lot of play from the Blackrock Mountain expansion is Emperor Thaurussan (I know I've spelt than wrong...). You can just get the wing with him in if I remember right. He's run in a lot of deck, his effect is super powerful. Pretty much all the other cards you can not bother with, only a few get run, and usually in very specific decks, like Patron Warrior, or Flamewalker Mage. The dragon based cards which the expansion was themed around, simply arent strong enough to support a dragon based decks, and arent individually that powerful to get put in others. They're adding more dragon synergy in this expansion so that may change, but for now it's not worth the money if you're simply looking to build a strong deck.

Naxx has more useful cards, namely Sludge Belcher, which is the go to taunt for most decks. Loatheb is still one of the most played legendaries as well, his effect can give you a massive swing, and he's got decent stats for his cost. Haunted Creeper and Mad Scientist also see a lot of play - Scientist is in pretty much every mage or hunter deck. Deaths Bite is by far the best class card in there, and if you want to play warrior, you will want it, but a few of the others are really useful as well. Some of the other cards see occasional play or can be put in gimmick decks.

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7000 gold and 8000 dust :ph34r:

Playing some Ramp Druid at the weekend, I suddenly realised what a buff jousting is to handlock. Honestly I'd think I'd rather play 5 face hunters in a row than 5 handlocks.

Edit: No idea on when it'll actually unlock. But I expect the servers to have some issues at some point, so maybe best to prepare to wait until Wednesday at least.

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How do you chaps amass such gold and dust quantities? Have you spent much real moneys on this?

I'm jonesing as I've been on holiday for a week, and now my broadband has died. My phone signal isn't up to downloading the newest update :(

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I've done pretty much all of my daily quests since launch, and bought the expansions with real money. Used to be a bit obsessive about not letting quests stack up, but I've managed to relax about it :). The 7000 gold I've saved slowly since Naxx. So yeah, it takes aaages. Though I still really enjoy playing every few days, so it's not been a tiresome grind or anything.

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Not spent a penny on it, have all the expansions, bought around 50 packs of GVG and have 4300 gold ready for tonight. Always refresh the 40 gold quests unless i've run out of things to do, and space for more quests.

So when is this going live?

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How do you chaps amass such gold and dust quantities? Have you spent much real moneys on this?

I'm jonesing as I've been on holiday for a week, and now my broadband has died. My phone signal isn't up to downloading the newest update :(

I'm at about 1400 dust and 3000 gold. Bought Naxx and Molten Core for Gold.

I don't Arena much (pretty bad at it) and do quests regularly. Did a fair bit of Arena previously. Think I've bought a few packs here and there but not many (I've used up the 10 cheap non-Blizz store ones for example :)). I think I got "most" of my Gnomes/Goblins stuff from Arena wins.

I've not got the greatest collections (very few legendaries) but it's work ok. Mainly use a TempoMage deck (With reduced legendaries) or some priest.

Think I'm going to splurge on packs for this expac though and get as many as I can for gold...won't use the dust until a few weeks down the line and see what cards are needed.

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3200 gold and about 600 dust at the mo. Only started saving when the expansion was announced though. Probably should have started earlier. Though I'm glad I didn't fold and preorder cards as there's not much so far that looks good. Apart from the new warrior and Mage legends that is.

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Think I'm just going to get cards through Arena, though it's a pain that you can get any pack as a reward, not just the new ones. Arena will let me play with the new cards a bit and try to figure out which ones I want to use.

Get a move on and press the 'release' button Blizz!

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Hehe. Well I've bought two 15 quid packs and also bought the Naxxramas expansion. (I can't even afford it, I'm just a compulsive irresponsible arsehole) I've sworn to myself no more though. Am going to use gold to buy the chapters of the Blackrock expansion that look like they have good rewards.

Though am tempted to buy one more big set of the new grand tourney cards to get me going.

...

:doh:

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The Blackrock stuff isn't that great IIRC - Emporer Thaussian is amazing - it's not awful, but the Naxx cards get played far more. (GT might change that, but can't see how)

Tbh between those 15 quid packs you'll prob have a fair few duplicates to dust - use those for any TGC cards you want for now>

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The best legend is easily the warrior one. It fits control warrior perfectly. The mage is OK but it is too slow for tempo mage (play a 7/7 have to wait for it to die or get bgh then have to wait for next appropriate turn and for full advantage will need combo cards like flame Walker in play - no thanks) and doesn't fit freeze mage

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What's the new Dr Boom from TGT then?

There isn't one really. Blizzard have got wise to the impact of cards like Boom and stopped making them. I think the best legendaries are the class cards this expansion, with Varian being the best. The Shaman, Paladin and Mage ones could be good, but it's hard to tell without playing them. I don't really rate the rest of the class legendaries though, and I think Aviana and Paletress especially are dust traps.

When it comes to Neutrals, Saraad is probably going to be worth having, but is a fairly situational card. The two 3 mana legendaries Lightbane and Darkbane will also definitely be worth picking up just because they have awesome stats and good inspire effects, but again, who knows how you'll fit them in to your existing decks. The rest of them are average to awful though. Chillmaw will see play in Dragon decks, and Justicar Trueheart will be amazing for control decks like Priest/Warrior. The rest of them are pretty bad though.

Except for one. I think Gormok the Impaler is going to be sleeper OP, especially in token druid, aggrodin and any other deck that floods the board. Really excited about that card.

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