Gotham

[MDY]

Was a bit better over the last couple of weeks.. but back to muddled and dull this week.. Plus the guy playing Dent is ~awful~

Show really can't decide how serious it wants to play things out.. Plus not many of the plot threads are more than peripherally connected - it's like watching bits spliced together from different adaptations..

[The Disco]

I'm really enjoying this. Yeah, like has been said it's not very subtle at introducing characters, but it's working for me. There's a shitload of characters in the whole Batman world anyway, so if they dilly-dally around stretching out introductions we'd never get them done.

[sandman]

I'm watching this pretty much the night it airs which isnt the case for Flash, Arrow, Leftovers, Agents of Shield or Homeland. So it must be doing something right.

[Salsa Party Animal]

I like Penquin, Riddler, Jim / Barbara, and Serena Kyle, but others are no good to watch. Bruce Wayne is so boring.

[Lorfarius]

He seems to be getting over his parents death a bit quick which doesn't help.

[Ste_S]

I'm watching on Channel 5, and this has way exceeded my expectations. Gordon, Penguin and now Victor Zsasz all excellent

[Blue]

He seems to be getting over his parents death a bit quick which doesn't help.

Far from getting over his parents' death a bit quick, his every action, thought and plan has them as the focus. He's absolutely brilliant in the role, I think, and I'm enjoying the show in general very much.

[MDY]

Better this week, if only due to Sean Pertwee kicking all kinds of ass(assins)...

I assume the main one was this universe's interpretation of Copperhead? Like Arkham Origins the character has been gender swapped..

[Professor Puzzles]

This is completely redeemed in my eyes for using the 'On the Buses' theme tune for a radio quiz show last night.

[Matt Defis]

So the next episode is out there and I want to know only one thing from you all, did everyone else say out loud

SHEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTT

within the first 5 minutes?

[Professor Puzzles]

Clay(face) Davis?

[Gommy]

I've just watched this up to one of the more recent episodes.

It's not terrible, and some bits are good, Penguin mainly.

It seems a bit formulaic, with Jim inevitably choosing yet another of Gothams abandoned buildings which turns out to be the exact one the crim is based at, then entering it alone. If you're a criminal in Gotham make sure there is no public record of the abandoned building you're going to hide in, or base yourself in a non-abomed building.

Jim is decent some of the supporting characters not so much. Mr Nigma in particular being the low point.

They seemed to completely brush over the fact cat girl gouged a mans eyes out with her bare hands, i know it was self defence but i would have thought someone would mention that.

I'm not massively familiar with the batman universe but it seems like they're cranking their way through a lot of the main names i've heard of. More than 1 or 2 series feels like it could push it.

Most importantly with the period it's set in - 2014/1960's and Bruce's age i can't help but get the feeling that this is all one long drawn out cock tease.

We're never going to see Bruce become Batman, and if we did it would be shit and like a kid going to a Halloween party. Most of the other big players we're going to see on their path, building their career but i can't really see any truly satisfying arcs, unless they decide to ditch Batman and time periods and go all out with the villains they have or make Jim, Batman mark 1. But with the expectation of what-who the characters are meant to become it all seems like it will be a bit frustrating.

That or they recast with everyone 20 years older and split it, a little bit like arrow to compliment this.

[dunni]

Most importantly with the period it's set in - 2014/1960's and Bruce's age i can't help but get the feeling that this is all one long drawn out cock tease.

We're never going to see Bruce become Batman

I think that's the point. It's meant to be pre-batman years. I believe the creators have said something like the only time we will ever see batman, if at all, is in the final ever episode.

[JohnC]

It's officially renewed, apparently performing well despite the apathy on here.

[Lorfarius]

Wow what a weird episode. All the stuff they have been building up over this season seems to have shot its load and I just don't care, very dull.

[MDY]

..And that was the only half decent bit of the ep.. (minus the stupid plot device of Oswald blurting out his real objective while stunned..)

But it still somehow fell flat - and no doubt Fish and sidekick aren't quite dead yet..

The whole 'Electricutioner' thing was just becoming interesting (aside from randomly leaving witnesses alive for some reason).. but the resolution would have been daft even in the 60's Batman series..

Annoying Barbara now has annoying parents too! Woo!
(Plus it'll look even more ridiculous when he does take her back as that'll mean he prefers her to Leslie/Morenna - nonsense!)

More creepy Nigma being creepy.. and boring..

Total damp squib..

[Tunisia]

(Plus it'll look even more ridiculous when he does take her back as that'll mean he prefers her to Leslie/Morenna - nonsense!)

Leslie's clearly going to be a villain, though, right?

[Gommy]

Was it always intended to be a full series? Or were extra episodes ordered later?

I thought it was okay but the electrocutioner was a bit of a side story to everything else when really considering the build up of the previous episode should have been a story more on it's own with the series arc taking more of a backseat.

[MDY]

Leslie's clearly going to be a villain, though, right?

She's a character from the comics..

..and she won't be - unless they're changing her fairly dramatically..

Though they have (presumably) changed the bit about her being close friends with Thomas and Martha Wayne.. and being at least something of a parental figure for Bruce to talk to growing up..

She knows Bruce is Batman and patches him up when he gets ~seriously~ injured

[JohnC]

Was it always intended to be a full series? Or were extra episodes ordered later?

I thought it was okay but the electrocutioner was a bit of a side story to everything else when really considering the build up of the previous episode should have been a story more on it's own with the series arc taking more of a backseat.

It was originally 16 then extended to 22.

[Tofu]

Gotham is dumb because it forces all the Batman characters to be pre-connected before they even are the characters they're known as.

It's as bad as Peter Parker being 'destined' to be Spider-Man. In other Batman mythos, the rogues and characters all occur naturally, it feels realistic for them to exist, disconnected, outside of their first appearances. In Gotham, it's all mashed together and every character's actions are intertwined making their gradual change to their known persona, predetermined.

[Lorfarius]

I just don't know what to make of this anymore, they seem to be shooting their load with

the Penguin story as that could have been some good cross series development but so far he's become a crime boss for very little effort it seems. The last couple haven't been too bad mainly the ones without Bruce but this weeks with the scarecrow was just woeful, so pointless not to mention the face off between Riddler and Penguin.

[Hexx]

Gotham's just such a mess. It can't decide if it wants to be case of the week procedural, heavily serialized epic, comic/camp or gritty noir detective story with actual mysteries...

It switches tone from scene to scene and the miss match is horrifically jarring.

Throw in the fact that they're massively reliant on "Hey it's that villain" and "EVERYTHING's CONNECTED!" as mentioned above and it's just a horrific jumble.

It feels utterly afraid to stand on it's own two feet compared to say, Smallville...something I never thought I'd use as a measure of quality...they at least made own stories and villains.

When they started to tie into "normal" mythos, they were using familiar elements to build on their alternate "universe" (at least in the start...). e.g. other than Lex was there even an "main" superman villian in S1 or 2? We had Lionel Luthor, the Teques, Lesbo Witches....by the time they got Doomsday/Zod/Zod (alternate) etc their own world was already established.

How many villains has Gothan blown through in it's first season? All in a holding pattern because there's no Batman...(other than possibly the Penguin). Do you think Riddler, Joker etc are going to have their first "real" case exist pre-Batman? Oh course not. So their stuck in this boring status-quo which people both a) don't care about and b) know wont change.

Nothing's going to change, because we know it doesn't until Batman comes. The villians aren't born/created (really). The police will still be corrupt. The mob will still rule Gotham (even it seems, the same mobsters). While Smallville (eurgh) was showing Clark developing from brain dead farm boy to brain dead...um...reporter/intern it following an arc. It had a protagonist that faced challenged, grew, changed, matured, developed. Yes it was glacial paced but it was there.(Typing that I'm reminded actually the Red Letter Media comparison between the Star Wars original trilogy and the prequels over protagonists and narrative arcs).

Gordon (is he the main character? really?) is a good cop in a bad world now. He'll be a good cop in a bad world at the end. That's Jim Gordon. He can't fix the world because it devalues Batman (which they won't do). He can't be changed because it devalues Gordon's role later in the mythos. So the world continues to spin, while Gordon speaks out about it, but can't change anything - looking idiotic and impotent/ineffectual...which is hardly compelling for the viewer.

Sorry for the rambly thoughts...Anyone know how it's doing number wise?

Edit - Wow. Read that back again today. Really sorry for late night rambly thoughts!

[MDY]

It was doing 6.5m per ep on average last year.. More like 5.5 for the last few..

Similarly I just don't see where it has to go..

About all Gordon can do is clean up the GCPD.. But that seems to be underway, Bullock has had a rapid change of attitude also..

Looks like Mooney will be here for a while.. So the Crime Boss struggle will probably be stretched out for longer.. oh joy!

[MDY]

Good god that was awful..

Mooney's 'inspirational' speech..

Hey Barbara's back!

Clown fight

Circus feud!

Dick parents

Dancing Butch

Penguin's sudden incompetence

Tracker snake

Lets trot out the 'walking in at the exact moment they kiss' cliche

And she's so upset.. she's been faithful to him.. Oh wait..

Easily found hatchet

Gordon worked out the identity of the killer how exactly?

Well that takes all the mystery out of the Joker (assuming it is him, but it's a shameless cheat if not.. To be fair it was a decent performance - just not the context he's introduced in..)

Despite not wanting this to focus on Bruce.. his is the only vaguely interesting stuff in here at the moment..

[Hexx]

AV Clubs review is pretty bang on for my money (both the episode and Gotham as a whole)

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/gotham-blind-fortune-teller-215325

[Lorfarius]

A good point in that article but what the hell happened to Harvey Dent? He was too young and it was an obvious use of "lets just introduce a known name" but the way they just dropped him after one episode was pretty shocking. It's not bad its just not a very good show.

[makkuwata]

It's not bad its just not a very good show.

Exactly. It's fine background noise for 40 minutes a week, but I try not to give it much thought beyond that. If the show ends up having legs I'd rather they forget about the "known name" tease this week and take another stab at it down the line from a different angle.

Shocking to watch that teaser after the fact. Is the show doing that badly? That's one of the most egregious spoilers for an episode of TV I've ever seen in a promo. In 20 seconds they spoil the third act reveal.

[Lorfarius]

I just watched the latest ep and.....

good god dancing Butch. That was awful not to mention the Graysons and Joker, I've never seen a TV show jump the shark in its first season before but eesh.

[Lorfarius]

Can we please talk about Butch and the dancing. I feel like I've been emotionally scarred. It made no sense. That may have single handedly been the worst thing I've ever seen on TV and I watched all of Smallville It seems to be getting middle to good reviews online. Why? The dancing. Why?