Jump to content

Neil Gaiman's Sandman - Now Netflix/WB co-production


Goose
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, LaveDisco said:

Yeah, that clip of Death is fantastic - she's brilliant. But he comes across as gormless rather than weird. Still I never really felt Sandman was particularly about Sandman.

 

And, frankly, the spin off Lucifer, was better in every way - I hope this is successful enough for that to happen with the GoT-whats-her-face, rather than that terrible procedural dross we got. 

 

While I don't agree Lucifer was better (it started very strongly), she would be great in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, JoeK said:

 

I dunno about the looks being integral really. Aside from Morpheus I guess. I think probably half of the original comic was awfully illustrated really (and terribly inked), but the I never had any problems with it because the writing was so strong. 

Blasphemy regarding artwork.

 

 

Regarding look not being integral, if I mentioned Morpheus to anyone who read Sandman and had to describe him would be his pale white skin, hair and black eyes. I can't divorce the looks from the character myself. I be watching the TV series regardless since I love Gaiman's work but I won't lie saying I'm not apprehensive about it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, odb said:

Blasphemy regarding artwork.

 

 

Regarding look not being integral, if I mentioned Morpheus to anyone who read Sandman and had to describe him would be his pale white skin, hair and black eyes. I can't divorce the looks from the character myself. I be watching the TV series regardless since I love Gaiman's work but I won't lie saying I'm not apprehensive about it.

 

 

 

Gaiman did say they tested black eyes, but it didn't work on tv. Maybe they could have given him more facepaint.

Someone else mentioned gormless - that would also cover Morpheus for most of the first seven volumes: given the underlying theme of the series. Only Death was ever really likeable, or able to emote.

 

I was bemused by the literal sound of her wings in that trailer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, footle said:

 

Gaiman did say they tested black eyes, but it didn't work on tv. Maybe they could have given him more facepaint.

Someone else mentioned gormless - that would also cover Morpheus for most of the first seven volumes: given the underlying theme of the series. Only Death was ever really likeable, or able to emote.

 

I was bemused by the literal sound of her wings in that trailer.

What is this Death clip?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, odb said:

Blasphemy regarding artwork.

 

 

Regarding look not being integral, if I mentioned Morpheus to anyone who read Sandman and had to describe him would be his pale white skin, hair and black eyes. I can't divorce the looks from the character myself. I be watching the TV series regardless since I love Gaiman's work but I won't lie saying I'm not apprehensive about it.

 

 

There's I think a couple of books where it's shockingly bad. I could do better. (I used to be an artist and could draw pretty well back in the day, but am so out of practice. But even at my best I wouldn't consider myself good enough to become an illustrator. The high points of the series are far beyond me. But even now, completely out of practice I could do a better job of at least one of them, possibly more (it's been a while since I read them)) The stories still hold up, but the artwork is wretched in places.

 

Have to say the videos look amazing. I haven't kept up with this thread, but the Death one damn-near reduced me to tears. Dream being largely-passive is the point. He's just an observer, and as Death later says to him - "you're far more terrible than me". He'll get his time to shine. This was hers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Death clip got me good. It always got me in the comic too. 

 

I hope it's a huge success, although it's selfishly because I'd love to see them do a season of it based on the World's End volume. It was my absolute favourite sequence in the comics and even now I'll quite happily waste and hour or two pouring over it just to see just how many stories are woven in it.

 

Also - Hob Gadling.

 

If they don't have him somewhere down the line, I'll be most upset. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, memories said:

I believe Hob is in this series.

 

Oh jolly good. He's my favourite character :) . And the story of him and Gwen at the Ren Fair is wonderful too.

 

Hell, I feel an urge to do some re-reading now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MarkN said:

There's I think a couple of books where it's shockingly bad. I could do better. (I used to be an artist and could draw pretty well back in the day, but am so out of practice. But even at my best I wouldn't consider myself good enough to become an illustrator. The high points of the series are far beyond me. But even now, completely out of practice I could do a better job of at least one of them, possibly more (it's been a while since I read them)) The stories still hold up, but the artwork is wretched in places.

 

Have to say the videos look amazing. I haven't kept up with this thread, but the Death one damn-near reduced me to tears. Dream being largely-passive is the point. He's just an observer, and as Death later says to him - "you're far more terrible than me". He'll get his time to shine. This was hers.


This better not be referring to Jill Thompson’s work on Brief Lives, or the abstract stylised art in the Kindly Ones, and I think we can all take it as read that the visuals in The Wake are well a work of art.

 

But yeah some of the earlier books are a little more workmanlike but it’s Gaimen’s writing that shines through regardless.

 

This first season is covering both Preludes and A Dolls House which are one the weaker and stronger arcs in the saga respectively so could go either way.

 

As far as the clips go, the scene in hell was horrifically wooden all round but it’s very out of context so may work better when you see the whole episode.  The scene with Death on the other hand was fabulous.

 

Either way I’m psyched, I’ve been obsessed with this story since I was a teenager so to see it realised on screen with Gaimen so closely involved is an amazing prospect. As has been pointed out the audiobook which was also closely controlled by Neil was amazing so I’ve got my fingers crossed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MarkN Either hates Colleen Doran or Kelley Jones.  And he's a better artist than them, who knew. 

 

Mark knew...

 

In fact. Let's just post the original script and have Mark draw his own best interpretation of the same pages. 

 

It's the only way we can really know. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, cassidy said:

@MarkN Either hates Colleen Doran or Kelley Jones.  And he's a better artist than them, who knew. 

 

Mark knew...

 

In fact. Let's just post the original script and have Mark draw his own best interpretation of the same pages. 

 

It's the only way we can really know. 

 

 

 

 

I haven't got time right now to look through them, but I did work as a game artist for over a decade, so I'd like to think I have some level of artistic ability... After my afternoon shift I'll have a shufty to see which one I'm really not a fan of, and if I have time I'll maybe knock up a panel or two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, dreamylittledream said:


This better not be referring to Jill Thompson’s work on Brief Lives, or the abstract stylised art in the Kindly Ones, and I think we can all take it as read that the visuals in The Wake are well a work of art.

 

 

Hempel's work on The Kindly Ones is the series high point, for me. It seems appropriate that the artwork is structural and more formal for a plot that is all moving parts and is essentially parts of a plan in motion.

 

Thompson's work on Brief Lives I like less but she has a difficult task with endless (arf!) dialogue scenes with Dream and Delerium to depict and some quite silly stuff to draw. It doesn't help, for me, that Delerium is a character that works best when used less and is featured way too much here for my taste.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Delerium is pretty much all of the worst things about Neil Gaiman's writing, condensed into one character. I really hope they don't use her too much in the series.  She's just about tolerable in print form, but I don't relish the prospect of seeing her on screen.

 

To be honest, I much preferred the shorter, one-off stories in Sandman to the longer ongoing stories. Neil Gaiman is at his absolute best writing short stories, and the issues that cover Hob Gadling or the dreams of cities were absolutely amazing. A Midsummer Night's Dream is such a good idea that it's almost a shame he didn't expand it to a longer story - the core idea of the play being commissioned as political fodder for supernatural beings in the same way that Shakespeare's historical plays were is an amazing idea that would stand up to a longer treatment, but I'm glad he kept it to a single issue, even if it almost feels like a waste. I hope some of that is used in the series, although I assume it will mostly concentrate on the longer stories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, K said:

Delerium is pretty much all of the worst things about Neil Gaiman's writing, condensed into one character. I really hope they don't use her too much in the series.  She's just about tolerable in print form, but I don't relish the prospect of seeing her on screen.

 

To be honest, I much preferred the shorter, one-off stories in Sandman to the longer ongoing stories. Neil Gaiman is at his absolute best writing short stories, and the issues that cover Hob Gadling or the dreams of cities were absolutely amazing. A Midsummer Night's Dream is such a good idea that it's almost a shame he didn't expand it to a longer story - the core idea of the play being commissioned as political fodder for supernatural beings in the same way that Shakespeare's historical plays were is an amazing idea that would stand up to a longer treatment, but I'm glad he kept it to a single issue, even if it almost feels like a waste. I hope some of that is used in the series, although I assume it will mostly concentrate on the longer stories.

 

She wHaCKy and KeRRaRzy and alittlsebitsad at times. Awful.

 

She has one good line in the whole series. ("He's not mine, is he...?)

 

To my mind he Tori Amosed it when he should have Kate Bushed it. Kooky doesn't age well.

 

Edit: I always thought it weird he didn't write so much for Desire, to be honest, seems like a richer seam than Delerium (or Despair, for hard mode). Then again, his wife seems to be a bit of a kooky girl, so...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, K said:

Delerium is pretty much all of the worst things about Neil Gaiman's writing, condensed into one character. I really hope they don't use her too much in the series.  She's just about tolerable in print form, but I don't relish the prospect of seeing her on screen.

 

He's put very similar characters on screen elsewhere:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, dreamylittledream said:


This better not be referring to Jill Thompson’s work on Brief Lives, or the abstract stylised art in the Kindly Ones, and I think we can all take it as read that the visuals in The Wake are well a work of art.

I've had a quick look through the ones I can find, and I've not found the thing I was really looking for, but some of The Kindly Ones is really not good IMO.

 

This is pretty fucking poor. I think if I have a go at this one it will just look like typical fan-art, but I absolutely can do better than this, I'm sure. I'd rather find the thing I'm looking for and give that a pop, but if not I may give this a go. I bought some coloured pencils on a whim a while back, and haven't really used them  much yet...

IMG_20220729_182033.jpg.d1825b9417361d0a77af0288b89b933c.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah fuck it - here's that image recreated by someone who is not an illustrator, who is incredibly rusty, drawn in red biro (not the artists usual choice of medium) in about 20 seconds flat. And I was just copying what they'd done rather than putting my own take on it. Notice Morpheus' (the angry squiggle on the right's) hair isn't shown, because otherwise Delirium would have to be about 9 feet tall in the original image. I wish I'd put her clavicles in.

 

IMG_20220729_185959.thumb.jpg.f53430224536c069af2a33f1184ab8d3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I was expecting a Charles Vess quality page but I suppose it will have to do. 

 

And finally I will trot out the usual art is subjective and that single panel may well be drawn that way out of artistic choice. But it's not Liefield Cap bad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Exidor said:

You know yours is worse though, right? Not just because it's a fast sketch - the composition doesn't read right.

 

I think you might be confusing "a style I don't like" with "bad art".

20 fucking seconds! Yes. I meant to actually make her much smaller compared to Dream, along with other things, but y'know I had other things to consider in that time.

 

And yes the original is a style I don't like - I'll happily admit. That also doesn't mean it's good art I just don't happen to like.

 

We're probably not going to agree on this one. I'll try to find the time to do a better job of that image, or find the stuff I'm really after and give that a go.

 

FWIW, flicking through the books I have managed to locate I found so much of it to be much better than I remembered. Which makes the stuff I don't like stick out so much more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weirdly, my issue with Thompson is also the character's heights at times, especially when drawn from an overhead perspective. Nothing to do with the above though. In fairness, though, the heights of the characters make life tough - particularly when Lucien is there too - he's taller than Dream!

 

To concentrate in things I lkke though.

 

In World's End:

Brian Talbot's linking sequences. Detail done right.

 

A Tale Of Two Cities:

Alec Stevens doing a version of his The Sinners style. A standout. Incredible.

 

The Golden Boy

Mike Allread. Another standout. Very mainstream comicy, and for good reason. Really clean and clear.

 

But it's all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, cassidy said:

Well I was expecting a Charles Vess quality page but I suppose it will have to do. 

 

And finally I will trot out the usual art is subjective and that single panel may well be drawn that way out of artistic choice. But it's not Liefield Cap bad. 

I got up at 3am, walked a mile to work, did a six hour shift as an online shopper where I probably walked about five miles, walked a mile home, had an hour to myself during which I fielded your first response, walked a mile back to work for my afternoon shift, did another three hour shift, walked the mile home again. Looked out as many Sandman books as I could, skimmed through them, found something that was close to what I was after, knocked out a 20 second-sketch -in fucking biro - to suggest I had at least the merest inkling I knew what I was taking about (edit: despite already admitting I was as rusty as fuck on the drawing skills). Fucking hell! I'm tempted to fuck off for a while. The break would do me good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, cassidy said:

Fair enough tough day. 

 

Show us another time. It's all good.

 

 

Not a tough day, a fairly regular one. My point is - that's the least good version of that image I will ever produce. I stupidly expected people to understand that.

 

I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying it's not that far off the thing that got included in the book. Bits of mine are better (She has shoulders for starters. And she's not a giant.) Bits of mine are clearly much worse (it's drawn in red biro and not coloured in, she hasn't got enough hair, she doesn't look lost or forlorn enough, I could go on). Twenty fucking seconds is the point. Some of the artwork in that book is dreadful. I stand by that opinion. I knocked that out in twenty seconds using a medium that you absolutely cannot undo. You saw everything I drew. No deletes, no erasers nothing, and I'm as rusty as fuck. If you don't think I can do much better than that you are very much mistaken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.