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Neil Gaiman's Sandman - Now Netflix/WB co-production


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19 hours ago, cassidy said:

@MarkN Either hates Colleen Doran or Kelley Jones.  And he's a better artist than them, who knew. 

 

Mark knew...

 

In fact. Let's just post the original script and have Mark draw his own best interpretation of the same pages. 

 

It's the only way we can really know. 

 

 

 

 

You started it.

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No. No. I'm out of here. I promise I won't return until I can either post something that shows what I can actually do on a level you won't fucking nitpick at, or I can find the artwork that's so very bad from Sandman even you won't try to defend it (because oh boy! it exists!). Although if you think this is good, I may still be mistaken...

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I had to check half way through that clip that I wasn't watching steth let's flat's. 

 

Sorry. But I'm really not buying a ticket to this hype train. 

I understand that the original comic has very little diversity, because it was the 80s and all. But dream and death are supposed to be brother and sister and I just can't get past that. 

 

 

Sandman-Death-.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

I had to check half way through that clip that I wasn't watching steth let's flat's. 

 

Sorry. But I'm really not buying a ticket to this hype train. 

I understand that the original comic has very little diversity, because it was the 80s and all. But dream and death are supposed to be brother and sister and I just can't get past that. 

 

 

Sandman-Death-.jpg

 

Dude, they're anthropromorphic representations of concepts. They can't look like anything. They even look different to different people.

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23 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

I had to check half way through that clip that I wasn't watching steth let's flat's. 

 

Sorry. But I'm really not buying a ticket to this hype train. 

I understand that the original comic has very little diversity, because it was the 80s and all. But dream and death are supposed to be brother and sister and I just can't get past that. 

 

 

Sandman-Death-.jpg


you’ve read overture, right?

or the bits where dream got together with the lass (nada) who ended up in hell (and where he certainly wasn’t tall and white)?
 

this thread is going to be so pleasant for team “the comics don’t exist”.

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Just now, footle said:


you’ve read overture, right?

or the bits where dream got together with the lass who ended up in hell (and where he certainly wasn’t tall and white)?
 

this thread is going to be so pleasant for team “the comics don’t exist”.

 

And he looks like a cat to Bast, etc.

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34 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Dude, they're anthropromorphic representations of concepts. They can't look like anything. They even look different to different people.

Yes well, death looks like this to me and plenty of other people. 

Because that's the character that was presented to me 30 years ago and that's how i have perceived it ever since. 

 

s-death2.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

Yes well, death looks like this to me and plenty of other people. 

Because that's the character that was presented to me 30 years ago and that's how i have perceived it ever since. 

 

s-death2.jpg

 

Yeah, I read the comics. Who gives a shit what the actor's skin colour is? They still look like and are acting the same part.

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Probably.

 

But If you look at something and have a character presented a certain way, I think it's OK to be disappointed when that characters look is ripped up and reinterpreted in a completely different way. 

 

Comics being a very visual medium means you are presented with the character image from the off. This is what they look like. 

Prose presents a discription that leaves room for interpretation. Comics are visual. Shakespeare is not. 

 

Death is introduced as a siousxie sue look alike at the very beginning when she talks to dream, she isn't hiding or in disguise because she is talking to her brother and has no need to disguise who she is. Interaction with anyone else is up to them to show us who they see, but dream sees death for who they are. 

 

I don't care about the ethnicity of the actor playing Death, I care that they look like someone that knows all the words to the cures A Forest. And can name at least two fields of nepilim tracks. 

 

Who knows, she may well blow it out of the park, I really hope she does. But she doesn't look like death to me. And that's a problem. 

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6 hours ago, MarkN said:

No. No. I'm out of here. I promise I won't return until I can either post something that shows what I can actually do on a level you won't fucking nitpick at, or I can find the artwork that's so very bad from Sandman even you won't try to defend it (because oh boy! it exists!). Although if you think this is good, I may still be mistaken...

 

Please take any further discussion about the art of the comics to the Arts & Literature sub-forum please - be that the Watchtower thread or a new thread dedicated to The Sandman. Cheers.

/mod

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6 hours ago, Sidewaysbob said:

Probably.

 

But If you look at something and have a character presented a certain way, I think it's OK to be disappointed when that characters look is ripped up and reinterpreted in a completely different way. 

 

Comics being a very visual medium means you are presented with the character image from the off. This is what they look like. 

Prose presents a discription that leaves room for interpretation. Comics are visual. Shakespeare is not. 

 

Death is introduced as a siousxie sue look alike at the very beginning when she talks to dream, she isn't hiding or in disguise because she is talking to her brother and has no need to disguise who she is. Interaction with anyone else is up to them to show us who they see, but dream sees death for who they are. 

 

I don't care about the ethnicity of the actor playing Death, I care that they look like someone that knows all the words to the cures A Forest. And can name at least two fields of nepilim tracks. 

 

Who knows, she may well blow it out of the park, I really hope she does. But she doesn't look like death to me. And that's a problem. 

 

Lol. She's drawn differently by different people in the comic as it is. She's not on-model the whole time. This is silly.

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6 minutes ago, Mr.Crowley said:

I think maybe I should stay away from this thread, the dogwhistles are deafening.

 

Absolutely, it seems she's 'wrong' for Death because she's black. I can't seem to find any other reason for it.

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2 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Absolutely, it seems she's 'wrong' for Death because she's black. I can't seem to find any other reason for it.


I was wondering in which comic Dream met Nada. It’s the first issue of The Dolls House collection- but stand-alone, immediately following a sound of her wings.

 

Will they adapt it this season? Will a Dream who entirely canonically isn’t tall and white break minds?

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4 minutes ago, footle said:


I was wondering in which comic Dream met Nada. It’s the first issue of The Dolls House collection- but stand-alone, immediately following a sound of her wings.

 

Will they adapt it this season? Will a Dream who entirely canonically isn’t tall and white break minds?

 

#notmydream

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On 29/07/2022 at 13:54, K said:

Delerium is pretty much all of the worst things about Neil Gaiman's writing, condensed into one character. I really hope they don't use her too much in the series.  She's just about tolerable in print form, but I don't relish the prospect of seeing her on screen.

 

To be honest, I much preferred the shorter, one-off stories in Sandman to the longer ongoing stories. Neil Gaiman is at his absolute best writing short stories, and the issues that cover Hob Gadling or the dreams of cities were absolutely amazing. A Midsummer Night's Dream is such a good idea that it's almost a shame he didn't expand it to a longer story - the core idea of the play being commissioned as political fodder for supernatural beings in the same way that Shakespeare's historical plays were is an amazing idea that would stand up to a longer treatment, but I'm glad he kept it to a single issue, even if it almost feels like a waste. I hope some of that is used in the series, although I assume it will mostly concentrate on the longer stories.

 

I definitely agree that Gaiman is a better short story-teller. I think he's possibly one of the very greatest in any medium for that. I think some of his longer work - and his novels - tend to suffer from what I call the 'Stephen King Syndrome'. Why use one word to describe something when I can use a million of 'em. I like them nonetheless, but there's a fair bit of bloat that really could be trimmed!

 

I'm just really looking forward to seeing how it all pans out really. If it's good, then that's going to be genuinely exciting for me. If it's not...well, that's okay too. Not many things cross over to other mediums very well in my eyes but I'm always happy to see the results.

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1 hour ago, Festoon said:

 

#notmydream


and the fourth part of the dolls house, we get death as a nun - not a goth - so #notmydeath either.

 

sandman was definitely better in the shorter stories. Though it’s interesting how scene by scene rereading this book they are separate short stories, in a way that most serialised comics aren’t.

 

im pretty sure they’ll have to adapt the smaller stories though: you need sound of her wings and tales from the sand for the overall theme of the series to make sense. Perhaps not the entire issue relating to cats.

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2 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Absolutely, it seems she's 'wrong' for Death because she's black. I can't seem to find any other reason for it.

 

Who said that then? 

 

Something like that should be called out shouldn't it. Don't pussyfoot around. Who said she's wrong because she's black? 

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17 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

 

Who said that then? 

 

Something like that should be called out shouldn't it. Don't pussyfoot around. Who said she's wrong because she's black? 

 

sandman said 'she is totally wrong for death'. You said some nonsense about looking like she listens to goth music and a siousxie sioux lookalike, whatever that means - to me it means she must look like she does in the comics and therefore cannot be black. I'm connecting the vague 'she's wrong' statements with the 'she needs to look like she does in the comics' ones.

 

This is an adaptation. She can be whatever.

 

How do you feel about black Hermione?

 

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting, I just can't make sense of your argument.

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