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Barnard
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I'm not in the games industry, but I am in the software industry and the kind of management issues that are spoken about in this thread are not unique. I've seen bad management, bad decisions and mass layoffs in my experience. Thankfully, I've survived all of these (most of the managers haven't!) and now, things have changed radically and for the first time in almost 3 years, starting to pick up and look very positive.

Hopefully, Microsoft know how to handle this situation. It sounds as though Rare have lost some key talent, but , I'm assuming that there are still some employees there who were responsible for making it the company it was and can be again... As the owner of Rare, the responsibility is now on Microsoft to sweep into the office and make changes where necessary. They may not be nice, they may hurt, however, if MS knows software, which I suspect it does, then ultimately they should be for the best.

Liquidation it is then.

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I'd imagine Starfox was rushed towards the end to cut ties with Nintendo

Dinosaur Planet was the main reason Nintendo decided to sell up. It missed its N64 swansong release date then, crucially, it missed its incredibly important GC launch date.

Nintendo were left in a situation where their second party wasn't producing games, their games' had started to wane in quality and their last N64 release was a real "up yours" to Nintendo and its family values.

So when the Stampers decided to sell up, Microsoft's bottomless wallet opened and Sega and Namco became financially desperate enough to put their considerable talents into making games with Nintendo IP in them, Nintendo decided to get rid.

Microsoft may have thought they'd got the coup of the decade (and the press certainly thought they did), but with Ghoulies selling around 20,000 units in total worldwide and with only a no-name GameCube transfer in the shape of Kameo and an N64 port in the shape of Conker on the horizon, alarm bells must surely be ringing at Microsoft.

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"BuT wheerz KiLLERRR InStinCT 3???????????"

Regarding my previous post, Killer Instinct 3 *was* being made. Apparently production started after Killer Instinct Gold and then got suspended due to the team being moved onto Conker (or Twelve Tails as it would be called).

However, it was brought back to life by another team and i was told that it was playable (to some extent) and then the project got canned at about 30% and the team devided - some went on to complete work on Conker and Donkey Kong 64.

And as well as this, did you know the original version of Conker (Twelve Tails) was nearly complete before the scrapped it? I believe the final figure was about 90%. The game apparently was too simular to Banjo Tooie and the upcoming donkey Kong, so they scrapped most of it and changed the theme..

Its just weird, Rare pumped out a lot of N64 games but whats happened this gen?!?

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At my Uni one of the tutors is Oliver North, who was one of the designers for Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie and a few others. Anyway, he gave a talk and two interesting facts were imparted from it:

a) The whole Banjo-Kazooie connecting to Banjo-Tooie thing came about when they worked out a way of being able to swap the cart in the N64 without it fucking up and carrying data accross. So they put it in the game. However, they hadn't thought of what Nintendo would think about this. In the end, they weren't best pleased, so it was canned for Banjo-Tooie.

B) We all know about Rare's massive paranoia. Employees aren't allowed to work on different projects or even go into other projects' bits of the building but get this: they even have staggered lunch breaks so that the different groups can't talk to each other. That's mental, that is.

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Surely Microsoft bought Rare for future rather than current potential? They (Microsoft) haven't had a single decent 1st party title for the younger demographic, and failures such as Blinx must have made them realise that they will need this if they want to penetrate that market. Having said that, this would hardly be something they'd do for the Xbox but rather for its successor.

Surely Nintendo sold their stake in Rare in order to be able to invest in companies that have a stronger current output in terms of more "adult" games? Retro and Silicon Knights both have the potential to help shift Gamecubes to an older target audience, something that Nintendo desperately needs to do now.

Two different agendas, both of which make the deal sensible.

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Regarding my previous post, Killer Instinct 3 *was* being made. Apparently production started after Killer Instinct Gold and then got suspended due to the team being moved onto Conker (or Twelve Tails as it would be called).

However, it was brought back to life by another team and i was told that it was playable (to some extent) and then the project got canned at about 30% and the team devided - some went on to complete work on Conker and Donkey Kong 64.

And as well as this, did you know the original version of Conker (Twelve Tails) was nearly complete before the scrapped it? I believe the final figure was about 90%. The game apparently was too simular to Banjo Tooie and the upcoming donkey Kong, so they scrapped most of it and changed the theme..

Its just weird, Rare pumped out a lot of N64 games but whats happened this gen?!?

I hope you didn't think that was meant to be serious. :blink:

However, cheers for the info! :lol:

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Regarding my previous post, Killer Instinct 3 *was* being made. Apparently production started after Killer Instinct Gold and then got suspended due to the team being moved onto Conker (or Twelve Tails as it would be called).

However, it was brought back to life by another team and i was told that it was playable (to some extent) and then the project got canned at about 30% and the team devided  - some went on to complete work on Conker and Donkey Kong 64.

And as well as this, did you know the original version of Conker (Twelve Tails) was nearly complete before the scrapped it? I believe the final figure was about 90%. The game apparently was too simular to Banjo Tooie and the upcoming donkey Kong, so they scrapped most of it and changed the theme..

Its just weird, Rare pumped out a lot of N64 games but whats happened this gen?!?

I hope you didn't think that was meant to be serious. :D

However, cheers for the info! :)

Yeah i knew you were joking cos of your L33T text.. but still :P

Also as comrade says, thats true - nintendo didnt want it in the game because of the risks that it would damage the cartridges or the console itself.

Fair enough, it could cause them a lot of hassle if people messed there games or N64s up - but surely Rare would have sorted this out with Nintendo before putting these secrets i Banjo-Kazooie in the first place ;)

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Did rare ever appeal to the mainstream gamer enough to justify £350,000,000 anyway?

They made some great games, but surely its the likes of GTA3, Rising Sun and harry potter that sells the sort unit numbers to justify a massive price point.

Apart from Goldeneye/Pd most of their games seemed aimed at serious gamers and some ( eg blast corps ) didn't sell that well anyway.

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Yeah Rare in their golden (parden the pun) era could sell huge amounts of games. Goldeneye did an obscene amount of business (about 8 million copies sold, god knows how many in pack-ins), Banjo did very well as did Diddy kongs (about 3 million). Their appeal was quite main stream as they successfully made mature and kiddy (I hate that term) games. It's really shitty whats happened to them but sooner or later something will happen and prehaps the Rare of old will appear.

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What is probably ironic, is that if Grabbed by the Ghoulies was on the Gamecube - i bet it would have sold 10x more copies than it did on the xbox.

Naaah. It's rubbish.

I played the Xbox demo the other day. Lovely graphics but the gameplay is terrible.

Wario World on GC is a million times more fun. Similar concept gameplay wise.

The setting is nicked straight from Luigi's Mansion of course.

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Naaah. It's rubbish.

I played the Xbox demo the other day. Lovely graphics but the gameplay is terrible.

Wario World on GC is a million times more fun. Similar concept gameplay wise.

The setting is nicked straight from Luigi's Mansion of course.

I know its rubbish. I was more in the meaning that because a lot of Nintendo fans liked rare because they were supporting the Gamecube, then they would have bought it.

Im sure far more people who own a nintendo console know of rare , than xbox owners.

Not exactly a good comparasion, but Starfox Adventures sold pretty well, because Rare made it - even if the game wasnt that great.

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The setting is nicked straight from Luigi's Mansion of course.

Which was pinched from erm lets see every other haunted house game previously in existence!!! :(

I'm sure the creators of Maniac Mansion and Lucasfilm have been thinking of getting the lawyers involved for some time on all these freeloaders

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Not exactly a good comparasion, but Starfox Adventures sold pretty well, because Rare made it - even if the game wasnt that great.

I think the Starfox name might have been something to do with it, rather than Rare. After all its a recognisable Nintendo Brand (in the US at least where the games were Starfox, Starfox 64 and Starfox Adventures).

Plus Nintendo actually marketed it, and it was hyped as a AAA game. Grabbed by the Ghoulies just wasn't.

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Lionhead?

Rebellion?

Argonaut?

ZedTwo :(

Depressing!

Bring back the glory days of the early 90's when men were men and Britain actally had more than a handful of decent codeshops. ;)

That type of development model just doesn't work anymore...

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I think the Starfox name might have been something to do with it, rather than Rare. After all its a recognisable Nintendo Brand (in the US at least where the games were Starfox, Starfox 64 and Starfox Adventures).

Plus Nintendo actually marketed it, and it was hyped as a AAA game. Grabbed by the Ghoulies just wasn't.

Would you have bought it then, if it was made by Titus? (from Superman 64 fame) and marketted by Nintendo?

No? Thought not.

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I think the Starfox name might have been something to do with it, rather than Rare. After all its a recognisable Nintendo Brand (in the US at least where the games were Starfox, Starfox 64 and Starfox Adventures).

Plus Nintendo actually marketed it, and it was hyped as a AAA game. Grabbed by the Ghoulies just wasn't.

Would you have bought it then, if it was made by Titus? (from Superman 64 fame) and marketted by Nintendo?

No? Thought not.

But I am sure thousands of people would have.

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I think the Starfox name might have been something to do with it, rather than Rare. After all its a recognisable Nintendo Brand (in the US at least where the games were Starfox, Starfox 64 and Starfox Adventures).

Plus Nintendo actually marketed it, and it was hyped as a AAA game. Grabbed by the Ghoulies just wasn't.

Would you have bought it then, if it was made by Titus? (from Superman 64 fame) and marketted by Nintendo?

No? Thought not.

But I am sure thousands of people would have.

Thousands yes. But i would have waited for reviews first before rushing out and buying it because I thought having rare and nintendo working on the game = god-like game. Obviously this was not the case.

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I think buying Rare is the dumbest thing Microsoft has ever done. So far, after two years of Xbox, only one mediocre game has appeared. The ones in the works (if not canned) look pretty generic and got a whole lot to prove. Even if they turn out to be great, no developer releasing a game every 2 or 3 years warrents half a billion of investment.

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