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The Liberal Elite

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The Liberal Elite

The Liberal Elite

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Car = Motorbike in a bigger chassis.

It's just a PC in a smaller box that only runs signed code unless you chip it.  REMEMBER that a PC is the componants in the case and not Windows.  Which eschews the point about a differing Dx layer...

Right, am guessing you are not a Bike rider..

In either case, PC or Xbox, it is not about the components at all, but about the operating system, and the games you play on it. In fundemental terms, the Xbox and PC differ in this respect.

And here's me thinking that PC was just a generic term...

So, if Windows based computers are called PCs, what are linux based machines called? or BeOs?

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Willei

Willei

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In either case, PC or Xbox, it is not about the components at all, but about the operating system, and the games you play on it.

I'll agree, despite using very similar componants, the Xbox has been specifically throttled to stop it from running PC software. Arcitechturally, we all know that any differences are only skin deep.

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PaB

PaB

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And here's me thinking that PC was just a generic term...

So, if Windows based computers are called PCs, what are linux based machines called? or BeOs?

What were you saying about pendantry?

How many Linux version of Halo or KOTOR have you played then?

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Willei

Willei

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It is a CONSOLE.

The hardware is not the issue here. It has a processor, a graphics card, a hard-drive, memory and stuff. The same could be said of a PS2.

You could run similar apps (emus and things) on a Dreamcast, you can run Linux on a PS2, this does not make them PCs in small boxes. Well if it does, then all consdoles are simply PCs in small boxes. The Xbox is no exception to this, it doesn't matter if it does certain things in the same way to a PC, or that its components are already existing ones, it will not run PC software.

It uses a PC chipset, PC RAM, PC graphics, PC hard drive, PC USB, PC DVD, and pretty much, a PC PSU with different connectors and a flagrant lack of shielding. A Gamecube or PS2 doesn't any of this stuff (except maybe GC graphics, not sure of the ATI chip it uses).

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PaB

PaB

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I'll agree, despite using very similar componants, the Xbox has been specifically throttled to stop it from running PC software. Arcitechturally, we all know that any differences are only skin deep.

Archtecturally the saem, yes, but as a PC, the Xbox would be massively underpowered - If it were to run PC games, they would be crawling. Why? Because PC games are written for PC's, not Xbox's. How many PC games would cope with a total of 64MB for graphics and main RAM?

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Willei

Willei

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And here's me thinking that PC was just a generic term...

So, if Windows based computers are called PCs, what are linux based machines called?  or BeOs?

What were you saying about pendantry?

How many Linux version of Halo or KOTOR have you played then?

Halo is a PC game. It runs on Windows, but not on Linux. Q3A Linux edition is a PC game. It runs on Linux, not Windows. A PC is not defined by it's operating system. A PC is a PC not matter if it's running Linux, Windows, DOS, or OS/2.

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Willei

Willei

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Archtecturally the saem, yes, but as a PC, the Xbox would be massively underpowered - If it were to run PC games, they would be crawling. Why? Because PC games are written for PC's, not Xbox's. How many PC games would cope with a total of 64MB for graphics and main RAM?

PCs are PCs regardless of power.

Is my old P100 not a PC?

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Tom_B

Tom_B

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Actually, by any definition, the Xbox isn't a PC. It doesn't run Windows software and it doesn't conform to the IBM PC standard, so calling it a PC in a box is pushing it a tad. It doesn't mean it doesn't contain exactly the same comnponents as a PC though, so I'd say it's a "PC with a custom proprietery BIOS".

There's nothing stopping MS or the mod scene turning it into a fully-functioning PC, after all, it has everything a normal PC has - they just work in a kind of unique fashion (the HD has a proprietery filing system for example).

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PaB

PaB

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It uses a PC chipset, PC RAM, PC graphics, PC hard drive, PC USB, PC DVD, and pretty much, a PC PSU with different connectors and a flagrant lack of shielding. A Gamecube or PS2 doesn't any of this stuff (except maybe GC graphics, not sure of the ATI chip it uses).

It uses an Xbox chipset, Dynamic RAM (as opposed to shared) a generic hard drive & DVD (not specific to PC's) and USB is not PC specific either - Indeed, my PS2 has 2 USB connectors.

And all these components are ficed, defined, certain. You are writing games for that setup and that setup alone - not for 1,000,000 others- Surely you can see the huge difference this is.

Xbox - Not underpowered

PC with same spec as Xbox - Massively underpowered.

See?

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Willei

Willei

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PC chipset can share RAM with the graphics and the main system store.

It'd be churlish to say that USB isn't PC technology because it appears elsewhere.

The HDD uses IDE/UDMA33, as does the DVD drive. Once again, this is standard PC technology.

What you are writing the programs for is irrelevant. Programs designed for Gentoox Linux with work on a PC distro of Linux.

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Willei

Willei

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PCs are PCs regardless of power.

Is my old P100 not a PC?

Of course it is.

Can it play Xbox games?

My PC is not an Xbox.

Edit: And I see where you're going with this. Xbox IS a specific standard, and it IS defined by it's OS. IT wouldn't be an Xbox without it. On the other hand, that's about the only difference between the PC and the Xbox

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PaB

PaB

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Edit: And I see where you're going with this. Xbox IS a specific standard, and it IS defined by it's OS. IT wouldn't be an Xbox without it. On the other hand, that's about the only difference between the PC and the Xbox

Well thats the fundemental difference.

Hardware means bugger all without the OS & acosicated API's. Xbox 2 will be a Mac in a box presumably, then, given its apparant use of a PowerPC.

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SeanR

SeanR

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PC chipset can share RAM with the graphics and the main system store.

It'd be churlish to say that USB isn't PC technology because it appears elsewhere.

The HDD uses IDE/UDMA33, as does the DVD drive. Once again, this is standard PC technology.

What you are writing the programs for is irrelevant. Programs designed for Gentoox Linux with work on a PC distro of Linux.

It can, but I'd rather it didn't. ;)

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PaB

PaB

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How's that then?

Shared RAM (as in PC's)

RAM that is shared between main RAM and VRAM. Predefined by the a setting in the BIOS or OS. For example - total of 256MB, 64MB set for VRAM and the reamaining 192MB for Main RAM. This value is set until you change it.

Dynamic RAM (as in Xbox)

64MB RAM that is shared dynamically as the application demands it. No user interface is used, the specific program sets its requirements and changes the RAM allocation on the fly as needed.

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PaB

PaB

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Can you change the Xbox RAM allocation on the fly then? I didn't know that, I thought you had to lock it at a value of your choice when you initialised the game. Fair enough though.

You as a user, don't have to do anything. As it stands, if you wanted shared RAM to act as dynamic RAM, you would have to go into the setup and change the allocation everytime you played a game. Dynamic RAM sets these values automatically, dependent on the requirement of the software.

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