Thoughts On Halo.

[David Kenny]

I seem to read quite a bit of criticism on this and other fora directed toward games for what we might refer to as the 'Trial and Error' approach to advancing through the game. Ie. Attempt level, die. Attempt level slightly differently, die, and so on. There seems to be a feeling that it should be possible to progress through the game by making logical conclusions based on the principles laid out in the game world.

It seems to me that Halo relies heavily on this Trial and Error mechanism when played through on the Legendary setting. This is not a criticism of the game, far from it, I enjoyed it immensely. In fact it was the trial and error approach to the game that kept me hooked.

Although there were large sections of each level that could be passed without dying, there were certain battles that I doubt anyone could have done first time. Some of these took me twenty or thirty (or more) attempts before I succesfully passed them. With each attempt I learnt a little more about the right and wrong ways to complete that encounter. Until eventually I constructed a battle plan that would prove succesful.

I'm reminded particularly of the first foray into the Truth and Reconciliation when you enter the Dropship hangars from the ground floor. The first twenty times I attempted that I simply could not imagine a way that it could be done. When I eventually did it (after hours of trying) I was barely touched. I was very pleased with myself as well, as you might imagine.

So this is my little defence of the principles of Trial and Error gameplay, when implemented well.

Anybody else feel this way about Halo? Or am I just crap and everybody else waltzed through it without a problem?

Any other examples where dying and retrying levels can actually be fun?

The first person to suggest I have a wank wins a prize...

A crusty tissue.

[hughes]

I'd have to diagree, Halo seems to be one of those games that's different every time I play it. I haven't played it much on legendary though.

[David Kenny]

I'd have to diagree, Halo seems to be one of those games that's different every time I play it. I haven't played it much on legendary though.

It is different every time you play it but I would suggest that's because you approach it differently each time. If you use exactly the same tactics each time the covenant will (pretty much) react in an identical manner.

[Dark_soldier]

halo topic No.847372364222

[Badger]

Please god not again...

[Sprite Machine]

It is different every time you play it but I would suggest that's because you approach it differently each time. If you use exactly the same tactics each time the covenant will (pretty much) react in an identical manner.

Well each time you start froma checkpoint, the enemies are in a different (randomised) location, so even if you did repeat the exact same tactics, you'd get a different response each time probably.

[David Kenny]

Well each time you start froma checkpoint, the enemies are in a different (randomised) location, so even if you did repeat the exact same tactics, you'd get a different response each time probably.

Are you sure about that. They certainly didn't appear to be.

[Sprite Machine]

Are you sure about that. They certainly didn't appear to be.

Fairly, but not certain.

*shrugs*

[Alex W.]

They're not randomised, IIRC. They made the point that they don't have to do that to get a dynamic game...

I can understand what this guy is getting at, it's how I played the game- I'd come up with an idea, try it, fail, try again, and keep doing that until I got through or a newer, better idea came to me whilst surveying the area.

[Davros sock drawer]

Please god not again...

Come on now, new people join all the time. Just because persons A through to W have played and discussed it 2 years ago doesn't mean persons X, Y & Z can't talk about it. Just ignore the thread.

[Badger]

Come on now, new people join all the time. Just because persons A through to W have played and discussed it 2 years ago doesn't mean persons X, Y & Z can't talk about it. Just ignore the thread.

Good point.

Sorry

Just having a bad day.

[Davros sock drawer]

Good point.

Sorry

Just having a bad day.

Aww, I'm not picking on you Badger love.

[Droo]

Funny, I was talking to a friend the other day about halo, ive never ever replayed a game on a harder setting, i've never felt that i needed / wanted too.

But two player co-op halo in legendary is the bombdiggity.

[Jim Miles]

I did Halo on Legendary recently and found after a while it wasn't trial and error, just implementation of certain skills. Some very difficult parts were edging towards trial and error, or more commonly chance (the last warthog run, which I actually really like).

I didn't do everything first try, usually a checkpoint took an average of about 3 or 4 (edit: 6- attempts (less near the end) but it didn't feel like trial and error, just proper combat evolvedness, having not followed the best battle plan.

[squirtle]

The entrance to to the T+R on level 3 is the hardest bit in the game and proves that a lot of the game when restarted is randomised. You never know which of the foor doors they're gonna pile out of first. Where the sword elites are gonna go etc etc. The hardest bit in the whole game that. Without shadow of a doubt. When I did legendary the rest of the game was like a breeze because my combat skills were so honed by that encounter that nothing stood a chance.

[Jim Miles]

Exactly what Squirtle said. Although maybe I'd generalise it for the whole of the section aboard the Truth & Reconciliation. After that, you're good enough for anything the game throws at you.

[Number 28]

I'd go with that Jim, I got past the bit Squirtle mentions, but now i'm stuck on the bit in the alien hangar. Those bastard elites on the floor above NEVER miss, and, and, the hunters. Hold me.

[squirtle]

I'd go with that Jim, I got past the bit Squirtle mentions, but now i'm stuck on the bit in the alien hangar. Those bastard elites on the floor above NEVER miss, and, and, the hunters. Hold me.

Ah, the needler...

Surprisingly good on Hunters too...

[David Kenny]

I'll admit that on the whole the number of times I had to retry any sections diminished towards the end, but the section in Keyes (I think) which takes place outside in the snow. (When you come into the area there are a number of flood fighting a shedload of Covenant and two of the Covenant tanks. Behind them all are two Banshees, one of which you need to get to the final generator.) That battle must have taken me 4-8 hours, I've no idea how many times I restarted it. I tried dozens of different methods and approaches until I found a successful one.

Very infuriating indeed.

When I say trial and error I don't mean that you just try random things until you find a solution. I mean that the game requires you to try a particular section and die, but learn from that so you don't make the same mistake twice.

It occurs to me that this is a heavily criticised methodology yet it works extremely well in this game.

[Jim Miles]

When you come into the area there are a number of flood fighting a shedload of Covenant and two of the Covenant tanks. Behind them all are two Banshees, one of which you need to get to the final generator.) That battle must have taken me 4-8 hours, I've no idea how many times I restarted it. I tried dozens of different methods and approaches until I found a successful one.

That was my single most enjoyable section in the entire game. It took about 2 hours and would have been more were I not quite lucky.

*SPOILER*

I used the sniper rifle to line up shots on the tanks and then the rocket launcher to destroy them. I used the rest of my sniper ammo on taking out as many elites as possible then, once the commotion(s) had died down, sneaked round to the side and stole a banshee. Much to the extreme annoyance of about 5 remaining elites. I could hear them doing their 'Og OG OG!' noise which I now know translates to 'Cheeky SON OF A BITCH'. I was flying away singing 'you're all a bunch of losers' to the tune of the Back To The Furture theme. Hehehe

[sausage]

halo topic No.847372364222

[Mike1812]

That was my single most enjoyable section in the entire game. It took about 2 hours and would have been more were I not quite lucky.

*SPOILER*

I used the sniper rifle to line up shots on the tanks and then the rocket launcher to destroy them. I used the rest of my sniper ammo on taking out as many elites as possible then, once the commotion(s) had died down, sneaked round to the side and stole a banshee. Much to the extreme annoyance of about 5 remaining elites. I could hear them doing their 'Og OG OG!' noise which I now know translates to 'Cheeky SON OF A BITCH'. I was flying away singing 'you're all a bunch of losers' to the tune of the Back To The Furture theme. Hehehe

Havent played that bit on Legendary but on Normal you can just steam past them all in a ghost and jump into a Bansee then take em out from the sky.

[Guest Penguin_Lad]

It is different every time you play it but I would suggest that's because you approach it differently each time. If you use exactly the same tactics each time the covenant will (pretty much) react in an identical manner.

This is true. Sometimes I play from slightly to one side of the TV, other times sitting on the floor.

[squirtle]

That was my single most enjoyable section in the entire game. It took about 2 hours and would have been more were I not quite lucky.

*SPOILER*

I used the sniper rifle to line up shots on the tanks and then the rocket launcher to destroy them. I used the rest of my sniper ammo on taking out as many elites as possible then, once the commotion(s) had died down, sneaked round to the side and stole a banshee. Much to the extreme annoyance of about 5 remaining elites. I could hear them doing their 'Og OG OG!' noise which I now know translates to 'Cheeky SON OF A BITCH'. I was flying away singing 'you're all a bunch of losers' to the tune of the Back To The Furture theme. Hehehe   

Havent played that bit on Legendary but on Normal you can just steam past them all in a ghost and jump into a Bansee then take em out from the sky.

Yep, you can do that on Legendary as well. Most satisfying as explosions and laser fire erupts just everywhhere around you but getting on the banshee, flying into the sky then turning round and watching the battle between flood and covenant unfold beneath me was a real moment...

[Kryptonian]

Ah, the needler...

Surprisingly good on Hunters too...

You want a Sniper Rifle there

EDIT - on T & R on the ship

[Kelthink]

halo topic No.847372364222

Too right. One Halo topic a week = too many.

[Mr Do 71]

HALo rOCKZ!!!!11111!

[squirtle]

Ah, the needler...

Surprisingly good on Hunters too...

You want a Sniper Rifle there

EDIT - on T & R on the ship

Why?

You managed to get through the opening bit on the T+R, then through all the corridors and stuff to the main hangar bit with the sniper rifle and some ammo? How?

[RJames]

Too right. One Halo topic a week = too many.

What a ludicrous opinion. Why did you click on it?

-J

[Jim Miles]

What a ludicrous opinion. Why did you click on it?

-J

It was sarcasm, surely!?

Yep, you can do that on Legendary as well.

You can? I could have sworn I didn't have access to a Ghost at that point... Ah yeah! I know why, it's because I ran past the previous battle. Still, it must require a lot of skill on Legendary since even in a rapidly moving Ghost, a handful of elites will destroy you in a second.