Football thread 2014/15 season

[gooner4life]

if you like.

[GrahamDunn]

recently? no, he got a bit of stick on here last season and before the world cup.

I don't really have a thought on them, people are entitled to their opinion.

I think it's telling that the criticism he faces tends to be from your average football fan and journalist, he gets far more credit from people involved in the game, his fellow pro's and managers.

Yesterday I believe.

I'm a bit disappointed that you've choosen to pretty much have a go at the ''average football fan'' there.

So just to be clear you still think Wilshere is better all round midfielder than Steven Gerrard ever was? I wonder what the ''average'' England and Liverpool fan makes of that.

[gooner4life]

absolutely, at 17 he was already a better footballer than Gerrard ever was.

Jorge Valdano sums up Mourinho and You, the average football fan here

"Mourinho is a personality made for these noisy and empty times, I never heard him say something about football, in public or in private, that was worth remembering"

[Kelthink]

absolutely, at 17 he was already a better footballer than Gerrard ever was.

Holy shit, lol

[GrahamDunn]

absolutely, at 17 he was already a better footballer than Gerrard ever was.

Massive LOLz.......

[gooner4life]

oh and dunny, just to be clear, I don't care what the average England, Liverpool or any other fan thinks of that ;-)

[The Fox]

You can argue that Wilshere has more technical ability than Gerrard, which may be what G4L is getting at, but there's a lot more to being a top footballer than technique and IMO he's never really worked out how to harness it. He's still young and should still be improving, but there are clearly sizeable flaws in his game currently. A bit similar to Barkley in that it's not at all apparent what position he should play or what his best role is.

As for Mourinho, he knows what he's doing with all this. Don't remember him making any fuss about the awful tackles from Cahill on Alexis/Aluko, or Mikel on Arteta, or Ramires on just about anyone who moves. But I don't think he's losing the plot with this moaning, he's just applying pressure to officials in the way Fergie used to.

[gooner4life]

the key to my statement is better 'footballer' Gerrard is better at many things on the pitch, things Wilshere may or may not develop into his own game.

Well spotted The Fox.

I see lots of room for development in his behaviour, he could and should offer more leadership, he should be taking on more responsibility, it's responsibility in all areas that seperates him from the likes of Gerrard and Lampard.

Wilshere takes responsibility on occasion on the pitch, but all to often he leaves it for somebody else, if he can add that to his game, I think he'll be the best midfielder to ever play for Arsenal & England.

And of course, off the pitch, he needs to change things, he needs to look after his body better, but I think that's a responsibility thing again.

[GrahamDunn]

You can argue that Wilshere has more technical ability than Gerrard, which may be what G4L is getting at, but there's a lot more to being a top footballer than technique and IMO he's never really worked out how to harness it. He's still young and should still be improving, but there are clearly sizeable flaws in his game currently. A bit similar to Barkley in that it's not at all apparent what position he should play or what his best role is.

As for Mourinho, he knows what he's doing with all this. Don't remember him making any fuss about the awful tackles from Cahill on Alexis/Aluko, or Mikel on Arteta, or Ramires on just about anyone who moves. But I don't think he's losing the plot with this moaning, he's just applying pressure to officials in the way Fergie used to.

Fair play, you're giving G4L the benefit of the doubt here (probably because you don't know him), but that's understandable.

I suppose it depends on what you would regard as technical ability for a box to box midfielder/attacking midfielder. For me things like first touch, creativity (short passing, long passing & crossing), dribbling, shooting & heading are important. You could even add in set-pieces as well.

I'd struggle to pick anything from that list where I'd say that Wilshere is better than Gerrard. Certainly not creativity, set-pieces, shooting or heading. I think it will be quite some time (if ever) before any homegrown midfield players will get close to what Gerrard & Lampard have delivered on a consistent basis throughout the last 10/15 years in the Premier League as well as the top level in Europe.

It can't be argued that Wilshere had/has bags of potential, but unfortunately for him he just hasn't progressed as many would've expected. Admittedly he's still young, but if you look at players around the world of similar ages or younger, then it's hard to argue against the fact that he's miles behind where he possibly should be.

[Jamin]

Wilshere beats Gerrard in the dribbling department I reckon but aside from that I'd say you're right Graham. Gerrard has always treated his body well, he mentions this in articles a lot - as does his close family. It makes you wonder if Wilshere had done the same maybe he'd have grown into more of a top class performer. Undoubtedly so imo.

[SaintM]

Agreed, there has been several poor refereeing decisions at St Mary's this season. The Fabregas penalty incident sticks out for me.

You win some, you lose some eh

Come on now graham, being a combined Chelsea and rangers fan you must know that two wrongs don't make a right.

[GrahamDunn]

Come on now graham, being a combined Chelsea and rangers fan you must know that two wrongs don't make a right.

Stan, is that you?

Can you unblock me on twitter, please?

[The Fox]

Wilshere beats Gerrard in the dribbling department I reckon but aside from that I'd say you're right Graham. Gerrard has always treated his body well, he mentions this in articles a lot - as does his close family. It makes you wonder if Wilshere had done the same maybe he'd have grown into more of a top class performer. Undoubtedly so imo.

Wilshere has had horrible luck with injuries which have stunted his development without doubt. I'm honestly not sure you can attribute any of his struggles to him having the odd fag on a night out, it's not like he has massive stamina/fitness issues. When he first broke into the team he was doing really well, then he was out for over a year with an ankle problem and came back to a very different side where his previous role didn't really work.

In his first spell he was playing deep alongside a strong, mobile defensive midfielder in Song, and really his main role was helping to break past opposition pressing (something he's still very good at) to feed Fabregas/Arshavin/Nasri. When he got back Fabregas and Nasri had gone, and he was playing with a more technical, far less mobile player in Arteta. Consequently he struggled, because as a pairing those two really don't complement each other at all well (take a look at Anfield 13/14 for a neat encapsulation of why). Wilshere's positional indiscipline (a criticism always levelled at Gerrard too) wasn't so bad alongside Song, because he had the pace and power to cover ground. But obviously Arteta - despite being far better than Song at many aspects of the defensive midfield role - sorely lacks those particular attributes. In that Anfield game, time and time again Liverpool would break at pace against Arteta, who was hopelessly isolated while Wilshere was nowhere to be seen.

There's definitely a brilliant player somewhere in Wilshere, but I honestly have no idea how you'd go about coaxing him out, and I'm not sure Wenger does either.

[gooner4life]

I think you will see the best of Wilshere when he's alongside Coquelin, I cant wait.

[The Fox]

Hmm I dunno, Coquelin has done really well at aggressively winning possession back with interceptions and tackles, but his positioning is often wayward (you could see this a lot vs Palace for instance) and he doesn't have a good range of passing.

Ideally I think we want someone with Arteta's passing and calmness on the ball, but younger/stronger/faster. Not sure such a player exists though really.

[Petrousgyre]

The problem there is who do you drop for Wilshere, assuming everyone's fi... actually scratch that - the most ludicrous of hypotheticals.

[The Fox]

Best midfield at the mo seems to be Coquelin+Ramsey+Cazorla with Ozil wide for big games, or Arteta+Ramsey/Cazorla with Ozil at 10 for the no-so-tough ones.

I don't think you can play Santi wide anymore, he struggled in the early season there. Don't think he's got the legs for it now, whereas Ozil is still fast and has been working hard since he came back from his injury so can still play there if we want an extra body in CM.

[Plissken]

Ashley Barnes won't face further action from the FA.

In your fucking FACE, Jose.

[Timmo]

I haven't seen it (other than the vine) but I've read that he was trying to pass the ball and it was a natural movement so it wasn't even intentional. Correct?

[toythatkills]

Chelsea are appealing the red card as well, so Matic will probably get an extra game ban because it was obviously a red card offence according to the rules.

[Plissken]

I haven't seen it (other than the vine) but I've read that he was trying to pass the ball and it was a natural movement so it wasn't even intentional. Correct?

Yup.

Barnes hit Matic on the follow through. Mari was trying to tackle him, not the other way around.

The Vine presents it as Barnes tackling Matic, which I why I initially agreed it was a red.

[gooner4life]

so Matic was wreckless and would have tackled Barnes after he'd played the ball? give him an extra game ban FA.

[The Fox]

Yeah it's true that the Vine misrepresents the challenge somewhat. I suspect Barnes maybe left a bit on him on purpose but that's impossible to prove. Plus the referee clearly saw it so the FA were never going to take action.

Quite what Chelsea are thinking appealing Matic's red I have no idea. Surely the absolute definition of a frivolous appeal and virtually begging for an extra game on top.

[ryodi]

It's a nice distraction from Chelsea's drop in form.

[The Fox]

If they bottle it now after bottling it last season too then Mourinho should be sacked. Would be amazing if it happens.

[GrahamDunn]

It doesn't matter who's tackling who.

Matic intercepts the ball cleanly to prevent Barnes passing it to a teammate, Barnes then intentionally follows through over the top of the ball and almost breaks Matic's leg. It was disgusting from Barnes who in my opinion knew what he was doing, he followed through knowing that Matic had intercepted the ball, and forcefully left his boot in at almost knee height . His tackle on Ivanovic was disgraceful as well.

Matic showed a lack of discipline and deserved to be sent off, so I don't think Chelsea should have appealed the red card. But Matic's reaction is understandable, I wouldn't have blamed Matic if he had landed one on Barnes' chin after it. Barnes should have been sent off at the time as well though.

[carlito]

Oh it would almost be too delightful wouldn't it!

[Revival]

Yeah or maybe the club will have a sudden lack of ambition and stick with a manager who wins nothing over the next 10 years.

If they bottle it now after bottling it last season too then Mourinho should be sacked. Would be amazing if it happens.

How did we bottle it last season? We weren't anywhere near ready to challenge.

Ashley Barnes won't face further action from the FA.

In your fucking FACE, Jose Football

[carlito]

Because you spent loads of money and you already had one of the best squads in the league.

[GrahamDunn]

Because you spent loads of money and you already had one of the best squads in the league.

Fantastic logic that.

Where's FuntimeDave when you need him.......