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Football thread 2014/15 season

The Fox

By The Fox,
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stefcha

stefcha

Posted
Posted

I see that after bucking the trend and actually being in a position to challenge for the title post-October for once, Liverpool have decided to make up for the anomaly by ruling themselves out two months before the season even starts this year.

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Adrock

Adrock

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So selling a player who wanted to leave and had a clause stating he could leave is classed as a statement of defeat for the coming season?

I think some of you have missed the recent changes in football whereby players have quite a bit of power.

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stefcha

stefcha

Posted
Posted

So selling a player who wanted to leave and had a clause stating he could leave is classed as a statement of defeat for the coming season?

I think some of you have missed the recent changes in football whereby players have quite a bit of power.

What's that got to do with it? Losing one of the best goalscoring threats on the planet who links most of the team together would tend to make things a bit trickier for them, you'd have to agree.

Plus it was obviously a joke anyway, misery guts.

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Gabe

Gabe

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Did anybody see the latest Toure/Toure's agents claim, that he'd have won the PFA and Football Writers awards if he was white? Anybody agree with him?

Of course, there was also the obligatory mention of moving club, too.

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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

Posted
Posted

no, it's ridiculous. Saurez was a worthy winner of both awards.

however the larger picture is a bit more of a head-scratcher. only three non-white players have won the PFA award - Thierry Henry twice, Paul McGrath, and John Barnes. only two have won the FWA award - Henry three times, and Barnes twice. considering how many black players there are, you would expect that number to be higher, wouldn't you?

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hmm

hmm

Posted
Posted

You missed out Les Ferdinand. So that's 5 times out of the last 30 years, or 16.7%. I'm not sure that the average proportion of black players has been higher than that over that period. (It's about 35% now but obviously that has risen a lot in, say, the second half of that period.)

Also I'd say it was something of a miracle for a black player to win it back in the 80s at all; Barnes was getting bananas thrown at him not many years before.

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hmm

hmm

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Posted

In the longer term it's perfectly useful to look at simple percentages. The choice of who 'should of' won on a per year basis is entirely subjective so I fail to see how trying to analyse it that way would be superior; I doubt there's a single example where everyone here would agree that a particular black player from the shortlist definitely should have won instead.

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emjay2kay

emjay2kay

Posted
Posted

Did anybody see the latest Toure/Toure's agents claim, that he'd have won the PFA and Football Writers awards if he was white? Anybody agree with him?

Of course, there was also the obligatory mention of moving club, too.

I didn't see that particular one but I've seen several of his claims now about him not being respected because he's black and African.

I think it's absurd, personally. I'm not doubting that racism is still a problem, but I don't think Toure has really been held back or ignored. He's widely considered one of the best midfielders in Europe and has played for some huge clubs earning vast amounts of money. I think he gets plenty of recognition and it's just bad luck Suarez had a blinder of a season and rightly won the Player of the Season awards. Similarly, it's bad luck for him (and everyone else) that the Ballon D'or has only seriously been contested by Ronaldo and Messi these past several years. No one else, regardless of their ethnicity is really getting a look in and I do think that's simply because Messi and Ronaldo have just been phenomenal over the last 5 years or so.

I'm white myself and perhaps I can't quite appreciate any prejudice where it's only slight or done unconsciously but nevertheless felt quite deeply. That being said, and not wishing to dismiss Toure's arguments entirely, I do think he harms his cause (and the fight against racism's) more by bringing stuff like this up because he sounds like a spoilt twat moaning about his "respect" and "due" or whatever when as an outsider I feel he gets plenty of both and can't really agree that he's being unfairly treated or being ignored.

Like I said, I'm not doubting racism is a problem (we saw enough instances just last season) but I just plain don't think that's what's stopping Toure from winning Player of the Season/Europe/World awards.

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Gabe

Gabe

Posted
Posted

It was article in the Times. To quote his agent, he said:

If he [Toure] was white, 100 per cent he would have won one of these top awards...I don't want to talk too much about racism or the politics of football, but he does not get the praise he should get. Yaya has three times in a row won the African Player of the Year, but it is different with the other awards.

With regards to the PFA, he should be directing his anger against his fellow players for voting for Suarez (worthy winner) and Hazard above him. As for the FWA, Suarez again was a worthy winner, with Gerrard in second.

Now as much as I love Gerrard, I would say that Toure was more of a key player for City last season and should have at least secured second for that award, but nobody was going to beat Suarez's achievements .Likewise in the PFA, I think he was more pivotal than Hazard, but again, that's an issue to take up with fellow players. As for the Ballon d'Or, he came 12th, though I don't know who all of those above him were.

I suppose in part it depends on whether you subscribe to the belief that the winners of such awards (the PFA and FWA) should come from the title-winning team (which Mourinho advocates).

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emjay2kay

emjay2kay

Posted
Posted

Oh the voting is often partisan for such things. I think we saw that this year when it was revealed who had voted for who in the Ballon D'or, with everyone pretty much just voting for their mates / countrymen and the likes of Messi and Ronaldo (and their friends) not voting for each other. With the Ballon D'or too, it does seem like players playing in England, of whatever nationality, get a bit ignored. Ronaldo won it after a ridiculous season in which he won the Champions League with United. Without that Champions League win I wonder if what was still an incredible season for him would have won him the award, or if would have just gone to Messi (I can't remember what everyone else's season was like in 2008 though).

I think Gerrard (and Giggs 5 years ago) had a certain nostalgia almost to their winning votes, like they're great players and have wound the clock back a bit, changed their role a bit somewhat successfully, well done. I think that tints the vote rather than them being white and British.

Again though, I hold my hands up and admit that I'm most probably not as sensitive to racism as those much more likely to be on the receiving end of it, so I don't want to say that it's definitely not the reason Toure didn't win any awards.

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Gabe

Gabe

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Oh yeah, there's definitely some 'Eurovision Song contest' voting going on, and I can understand a bit of sentiment getting Gerrard some votes. On Hazard though, I don't think he had a better season than Toure, but then perhaps people just don't like Toure very much? Outbursts such as those recently probably don't endear him to fellow pros.

Whether racism has played a part or not, there are surely better ways to address it - though ironically it's probably raising his profile a bit.

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JDubYes

JDubYes

Posted
Posted

Yup. Pretty much all season my opinion of him as a footballer went up (and it was already pretty damn high), and he was phenomenal this year (though perhaps not quite as phenomenal as he seems to want everyone to believe) but in these last few months my opinion of him as a professional has plummeted. Following football can desensitise you to it to a point, it's not like it's uncommon, but he's been doing some remarkably tiresome and transparent money-grabbing.

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Lucky

Lucky

Posted
Posted

Seeing as the World Cup is almost finished and the transfer shenanigans are hotting up, the new season suddenly doesn't seem a million miles away.

I know it's too early for predictions as there will still be a lot of money spent and any predictions are a bit premature as we don't even know the final squads yet, but I'm bored, so here goes.

Liverpool won't make the top four

Arsenal will finish higher than Utd

Arsenal and Chelsea will be top 2

3 & 4 City & Utd

Tops 6 will be Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Utd, Liverpool then Everton (I'm really trying to not be biased. Not doing very well. I know)

Bottom 8 will be (in no particular order) Burnley, Hull, Leicester, QPR, WBA, Villa, West Ham and Swansea

Three to get relegated is tricky. Burnley, WBA & either QPR or Leicester

First manager sacked will be Pardew, Allardyce or Redknapp

RVP to be given Utd captaincy pissing Rooney off no end

Chelsea to get the furthest in the CL out of the English teams (see I'm not biased)

Edit: Not intended to piss anyone off, just a bit bored.

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