Amiga Appreciation Thread

[decider]

That'll only work on a CRT monitor though, as the Amiga's RGB out is a 15Khz signal that most LCDs don't like, a monitor would generally accept a 31Khz signal. Not sure how it'd go with an LCD TV though.

If you want to use an Amiga on a modern monitor then you're probably looking at scandoubler territory and that's a shade more expensive!

[Riven]

Dreamweb is great. Someone on here uses the character as their avatar.

Great game Dreamweb, the PC version is being given away by the developers for use with scummvm.

http://scummvm.org/games

Didn't we have an Amiga thread not that long ago, I seem to remember telling people about a lot of the pit falls with collecting for the Amiga these days. I've had way to many duff floppies to spend more han about £5 on a Amiga game these days. It's a real buyer beware market, not least because of the amount of games that didn't work with the different system.

Had many great days playing on my Amiga in the 80s & 90s.

Not many games need an accelerator card, they where only introduced near the end of the system life for games like Alien Breed 3D 1 & 2. Even those techincally work with a normal A1200, but not very well.

Haven't tried to see if I can capture from the Amiga yet but judging what decider said it's going to be a bit hit and miss from RGB wonder if composite will be better. Add to that I have a A500 where one of the 00 chips went on it so half the time I get a flashing caps lock button that disables the keyboard.

[Anne Summers]

Still never decided what the ideal Amiga retrogaming system is, probably why I've never bothered to invest in one in all the time I've been into retro.

I don't think there is such a thing. Lots of non-AGA games won't work on AGA machines, and vice versa. It seems to me if you want to be able to play every game on native hardware, you need two machines (an original non-plus A500 and then any AGA machine).

Then there's the form factor to consider. The A600 is a lovely looking machine - I always considered it to be a 90s, turbo-charged C64 in the looks department. But it's the absolute worst in terms of compatibility.

Which is why I've been happy enough to stick to WinUAE, Amiga Gamebase and The Company 1-click .exes for the last 20 years of my Amiga gaming.

[Lorfarius]

Yeah but Amiga's are just lovely. Who wouldn't want to use one?

[gone fishin]

I've got a 600 and as long as you add extra memory, it works fine.

Most games load from WhD load, some don't - but then I just have floppy versions of them.

If you want the perfect Amiga setup, get a CD32 and an SX-1 expansion.

In saying that, it would set you back about 250 quid.

So if you went for a 600 and vanilla CD32, then you'd be pretty much set.

On another note, I wish someone would set up a kickstarter, similar to that Spectrum one, except where you got a full size Amiga with a modern machine running Android or Linix underneath giving emulation of every Amiga model. Plus SD slots for HDD and floppy emulation... Now, I'd buy that for £150...

[decider]

It's not a computer-in-a-keyboard, but there are a couple of FPGA-based Amigas out there, like the MIST and the MiniMig. The MIST has most of the features you're after but it's a shade over £150, but you can also use it to emulate an ST and a handful of other computers.

[Riven]

Still never decided what the ideal Amiga retrogaming system is, probably why I've never bothered to invest in one in all the time I've been into retro.

I don't think there is such a thing. Lots of non-AGA games won't work on AGA machines, and vice versa. It seems to me if you want to be able to play every game on native hardware, you need two machines (an original non-plus A500 and then any AGA machine).

Then there's the form factor to consider. The A600 is a lovely looking machine - I always considered it to be a 90s, turbo-charged C64 in the looks department. But it's the absolute worst in terms of compatibility.

Which is why I've been happy enough to stick to WinUAE, Amiga Gamebase and The Company 1-click .exes for the last 20 years of my Amiga gaming.

A600 wasn't great I know a few games that won't run on it just because it was missing the number pad keys.

I should also mention again that there is a big compatability different between using WhD load (pirate copies) & emulators versus using an original machine with original floppy.

Not least because you need to make sure every game is complete as if that game had password protection your in trouble if you don't have the code wheel or manual needed. Ironically most pirate copies had the protect stripped off and some where even made to work with other Amigas the original floppies didn't..

One of those classic Amiga tunes that gets me every time I hear it.

If you want a really good platform game then Arabian Nights really was great played like a console game and looked great.

Here's links to those other Amiga threads on rllmuk that we discussed last year:

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/280079-top-25-amiga-games/

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/280173-couple-of-amiga-questions/

[gone fishin]

That Mist sounds like a good idea, but God is it fucking ugly. There's no way I'd have that over the Amiga form factor, you'd be just as well getting a mini PC and running emulation! And for lower powered systems, I just use the Wii and home brew which is much better looking (and more compact)

Stick it in an Amiga case, then I'd be interested!

[decider]

Yeah, I'll give you that. The casing looks like it belongs next to a row of BBC Micros in a primary school circa 1984.

The whole FPGA thing is fascinating though, reprogramming the hardware to work exactly the same way as the custom chips inside the Amiga. The SD2SNES flash cart works in the same way to run games that need enhancement chips like Super FX without needing to sacrifice a copy of Star Fox.

[Anne Summers]

Yeah but Amiga's are just lovely. Who wouldn't want to use one?

They are, and I agree - but for me the loveliness is all on the inside - which can all be emulated with far less hassle than ebaying/storing/setting up etc a physical system.

They weren't particularly nice looking computers (except for the 600 as I said above). In fact they look quite ugly now (imo) particularly the 500 which would be the one I would most want due to compatibility with the games I like. The mouse was shit, and the disks take ages to load and are prone to failure.

WinUAE is far from perfect. However I have got every game I have ever wanted to play running on it, with some degree of fiddling. The 1-click TheCompany games pretty much ARE perfect, but they don't have anything like the full catalog (a lot of the real classics are there though).

This is the point I'm trying to make about Amiga retrogaming really. There is no one ideal way to do it. The only possible conceivable way (using hardware that exists today) is getting a A1200 or 4000 and seriously soft-modding it until it's really 100% compatible with the A500 back catalog. I actually don't even know if that is possible but it would take a lot of fiddling (and money probably).

It's also probably what makes Amiga retrogaming more fun and rewarding than revisiting most other systems. It's more of a challenge!

A friend actually gave me a perfect-looking Cartoon Classics pack A500 he found in an old storage lockup a few years ago. I plugged it in but the df0; drive wouldn't read anything and I knew it would be a hassle to get it to the stage I could have any fun with it so II gave it away. My plan would have been to just try and get a big old case of pirated floppies from Ebay or somewhere, and go through them to see what worked, and what I could have a few hours' fun with. I used to have a huge collection of original games, most of the classics, but I sold all the good ones which are worth a few quid (in good condition) off individually over the years. I was just left with a box of junk which I left in a house owned by the daughter of Dad's Army creator David Croft.

[Anne Summers]

A600 wasn't great I know a few games that won't run on it just because it was missing the number pad keys.

I should also mention again that there is a big compatability different between using WhD load (pirate copies) & emulators versus using an original machine with original floppy.

Not least because you need to make sure every game is complete as if that game had password protection your in trouble if you don't have the code wheel or manual needed. Ironically most pirate copies had the protect stripped off and some where even made to work with other Amigas the original floppies didn't..

Yeah from what I remember a lot of WHDloads reengineer the games so that older games that previously weren't AGA compatible can run on A1200/A4000s. I've never tried it though, is it the case?

If it is then it's a step towards the 100% perfect Amiga I've been looking for.

Thinking about it again since my last post , I guess the A1200 is as close as I'd get to what I'd consider the ideal form for an Amiga retrogaming setup. I just like the A600 because it's so compact and like a futuristic (for the time) C64. But yeah the lack of keypad means it can never be 100% compatible.

[Anne Summers]

It's not a computer-in-a-keyboard, but there are a couple of FPGA-based Amigas out there, like the MIST and the MiniMig. The MIST has most of the features you're after but it's a shade over £150, but you can also use it to emulate an ST and a handful of other computers.

Those look interesting. I never heard of them or FPGA before.

The site is terrible at explaining the details though! Lots of warnings not to bother asking them tiresome questions about the product and a link to a wiki. the first descriptive paragraph of which is: "An FPGA is an intengrated semiconductor." I managed to wade through it though and work out what they are (I think!)

Some of the other stuff on that site though - the floppy emulators- how do they work? Can you use it to replace the internal drive on an Amiga? If so, how do you operate it (I presume you store ADFs on it - how do you use the Amiga to select which image is in the drive?

So now I think an Amiga built using those FGPA things is as close to ideal as you could get - if it was inside an A600 case, with the hardware rewired so you can replicate keypad presses on the existing keys. I would pay £150 for that, if you could boot it in 100% compatible A500/A500+/AGA modes.

[decider]

Yeah, they do come across a bit less than friendly!

An FPGA is essentially a chip that can be reprogrammed to operate in different ways as required by your software, as opposed to being built for a specific purpose. In these cases, people are using them to recreate the functionality of the no-longer produced custom chips from those home computers. Since the FPGA is being programmed to the schematic of the original hardware the compatibility should be very high (presumably 100% if the implementation is correct!)

The SD2SNES uses an FPGA on the flash cart that's reprogrammed to mimic the SuperFX and other DSP chips that otherwise you'd have to sacrifice a real cart to get. The only drawback they seem to be having is that the FPGA they've chosen is too small to implement some of the later chips.

With regards to the floppy emulators, you're absolutely right about that. They're designed to replace a real floppy drive, either internally or through the expansion port on the rear of the computer. You basically load up an SD card with .ADF files and use the keys and screen on the front of the device to switch between them and 'load' them into the drive. They then operate as though you were using a native disk. They also sell a 'slim' version that doesn't have a screen, it works in a similar way but you need to run a particular program to select the disk image you want to run.

Lotharek's devices are probably the cream of the crop, mainly because they're designed to work with a number of disk formats and hardware devices, instead of just being for an Amiga or ST or whatever (they're particularly useful for old Samplers and music hardware), but they're pricey. If you wanted to get into that kind of thing you'd probably be better off getting one of the cheaper Gotek floppy emulators which has had Amiga specific firmware written for it instead of one of the 'slim' drives. In both cases you just load a specially named image onto the USB/SD card and your Amiga will boot into a disk selector.

[Lorfarius]

USB mouse thingy finally arrived. Taken a week so he's def getting marked down on that. Does the trick though I'm happy to say, I plugged an MS one in which works wonders. I can actually control the games properly with none of the cursor skirting.

[Lorfarius]

Card finally arrived. Works a treat and everything now loads, Rob if you read this I've had zero issues with the stock power pack even with all this kit.

In other news.... Jetstrike is actually playable with a Mega Drive pad! It takes away the huge control difficulty compared to keys and a joystick, was doing loops in seconds, so easy!

[gone fishin]

Oh you should also install Putty Squad, if it's not already on there.

It's 1200 only, but System 3 released it last year (I think) About 20 years late... ;-)

And Solid Gold is a lovely little Homebrew platformer, again released last year

You might need to update the AGLaunch app on the Amiga, just so it picks up any new games you've added. You can find that, and all the newer WHDLoad installations here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=68704

[Lorfarius]

So I opened the Amiga up this morning to try and fix the FDD. Have a pile of PD disks I just can't use properly, it jams the disk when you press eject just beneath the lip. I couldn't move the drive at all when it was open so beyond filing down the slot on the top half of the case not sure what to do.

Also Commodore need a slap round the head for the expansion card slot. Putting the card bit at a slight angle to the slot is just daft, spent ages trying to get the card in only to find out I hadn't put a jumper on correctly so had to do it all over again! Eesh.

[ZedEx48K]

TLDR (well I did the last page) if it hasn't been mentioned already something you should all be doing is taking apart the Amigas and checking all the caps, they are prone to leaking with age, same goes for the batteries on expansion boards etc.

[Lorfarius]

I doubt most people who have them know even how to do that.

[Lorfarius]

Spent a few hours using this accel card now and... not impressed. Playing the likes of Zool 2 and there's a fair bit of slow down, think this might just be down to the card speed rather than the actual Amiga. I'm starting to look at one of those 30MHz cards with 128MB of RAM.

[decider]

I thought a game had to be programmed in order to use an accelerator card, so if Zool isn't designed for one then you won't see any advantage over a stock machine? Or have my years of being a lowly 500+ owner left me with a gap in trivia?

[Lorfarius]

Yes if its a game that uses the processor. More memory makes things work better in general, this card I have is only 4MB (despite the fecker advertising it as an 8MB card!).

[crocked]

I picked up an 8 MB card (fairly cheap to be fair) and despite it having all the dimms on the card for 8 MB it also only reported 4 MB. It was enough for most games so I didn't look into it further but I suspected it might be some jumper setting on the card.

[Vimster]

[roberthazelby]

I thought a game had to be programmed in order to use an accelerator card, so if Zool isn't designed for one then you won't see any advantage over a stock machine? Or have my years of being a lowly 500+ owner left me with a gap in trivia?

Sounds spot on to me.

I find that some (a very small number) games actually run slower with an accelerator. I think it's down to how the timing for a particular game was coded.

[Lorfarius]

I've picked a stick of RAM so fingers crossed it works on testing. However the board does have a slot free for a FPU (mines Rev B) there's also a link for the manual on this page:

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/rca120

Was looking at this but not sure if it will work, bit of an expensive gamble without knowing for sure. Any advice guys?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MC68882RC40-FPU-MC68882-CoPro-68882-40-MHz-PLCC-Commodore-Amiga-Atari-Apple-/251871395280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3aa4b47dd0

[Lorfarius]

I'm back in the game! Added the 8MB stick of RAM and everything runs amazingly well, games which were stuttering and loading slow show none of that now

[crocked]

Regarding the FPU maybe I'm remembering wrong but I thought that was rarely used by any games except maybe the later doom clones.

That said the chip should be compatible but the following section makes me wonder if you need to underclock the frequency from 40MHz to 25Hz. Personally I probably wouldn't pick it up and try and get a 50MHz or 25MHz one to be on the safe side,

RCA120 RAM Card support the Motorola PGA (Pin Grid Array) style Floating Point Units MC68881 and MC68882 FPU. A synchronously clocked 14.3MHz MC68881 is standard. Optionally, the board can support the un-synchronously clocked 25MHz or 50MHz MC68882 Math Co-processor.

B) Note: When running clocked from the board (14.3MHz) the JP3 jumperblock should on the left (1-2) position. When a faster FPU and Oscillator are installed, this JP3 jumper block is move to right two pins (2-3)

[Lorfarius]

I think the 8MB is enough for all my needs, before Sensi World of Soccer would pause and freeze during the music but with the new stick in its perfect. I did discover a C32 copy of Beneath a Steal Sky on the CF drive but it never seems to load always freezing at the WHDLoad popup screen.

Having a random browse this morning and saw a copy of Strip Poker 2. Felt it would only be in the best interests of mankind to have a nosey then found I'd lost an hour to playing it, actually a pretty decent game of poker with the added bonus of nawty nubblies when you win.

[Lorfarius]

Spent a fair bit of time on it today, couple of games that really stood out were Little Computer People and Lombard RAC Rally.

As a kid I remember this amazing me at just how realistic it was to see the drivers helmet move and arms react as you drove, even changing the gear stick as you sped along. I was always rubbish at it and going back to it not surprising why. It's a pretty clunky racing game and what you can see on the road is only so small because that's all they could manage to put on the screen back then I'm sure.

Now as for LCP this game has always fascinated me and I've bought it for the C64 and even the Famicom Disk drive not to mention all the other ports I've played. I'm pretty sure the Amiga is the best looking one as it's just so darn colourful. I was pressing keys at random to try and save before exiting as I'm not sure if the original just editing the disk file as it went along, not had much look so far and reloading it just starts the house from scratch. Was fun to watch the guy move in for a bit and make himself at home, I do want to spend more time with this even if its just a glorified demo.