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Gran Turismo 4


Landshead
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i wouldn't mind playing this but i'm not going to fork over extra cash (£100?) for a wheel and i'm not playing a racing game without triggers for acceleration.

GT2 was a big improvement over GT1. GT3 just added shinier cars (something the PS2 massive seem to love) and GT4 doesn't look like it will add much more.

Do you enjoy dancing games, Beertiger? Samba De Amigo? Dancing Stage? How about a bit of Donkey Konga? What about House of the Dead 2 or Time Crisis? All these games need peripherals to enjoy them to their fullest. GT4 will be able to be played with the pad (use the right analogue stick for accelerate as in, say, Moto GP on Xbox) but only come alive with the right peripheral. I think it's harsh to single out a racing game for needing a steering wheel to really enjoy it (although I was guilty of this in the past with Daytona o the DC but that was only because it was so shit with the pad) when so many other games get praise for their use of peripherals.

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i wouldn't mind playing this but i'm not going to fork over extra cash (£100?) for a wheel and i'm not playing a racing game without triggers for acceleration.

GT2 was a big improvement over GT1. GT3 just added shinier cars (something the PS2 massive seem to love) and GT4 doesn't look like it will add much more.

Do you enjoy dancing games, Beertiger? Samba De Amigo? Dancing Stage? How about a bit of Donkey Konga? What about House of the Dead 2 or Time Crisis? All these games need peripherals to enjoy them to their fullest. GT4 will be able to be played with the pad (use the right analogue stick for accelerate as in, say, Moto GP on Xbox) but only come alive with the right peripheral. I think it's harsh to single out a racing game for needing a steering wheel to really enjoy it (although I was guilty of this in the past with Daytona o the DC but that was only because it was so shit with the pad) when so many other games get praise for their use of peripherals.

yes Samba is ace, yes i've got it. I just guess i'm used to driving games not needing a wheel to play with that's all.

IF Sony hadn't cocked up the pad design in the first place it wouldn't matter. Analogue buttons! pfff someone needs to slip a note saying triggers into Mr Playstations donut next time.

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i wouldn't mind playing this but i'm not going to fork over extra cash (£100?) for a wheel and i'm not playing a racing game without triggers for acceleration.

GT2 was a big improvement over GT1. GT3 just added shinier cars (something the PS2 massive seem to love) and GT4 doesn't look like it will add much more.

Do you enjoy dancing games, Beertiger? Samba De Amigo? Dancing Stage? How about a bit of Donkey Konga? What about House of the Dead 2 or Time Crisis? All these games need peripherals to enjoy them to their fullest. GT4 will be able to be played with the pad (use the right analogue stick for accelerate as in, say, Moto GP on Xbox) but only come alive with the right peripheral. I think it's harsh to single out a racing game for needing a steering wheel to really enjoy it (although I was guilty of this in the past with Daytona o the DC but that was only because it was so shit with the pad) when so many other games get praise for their use of peripherals.

yes Samba is ace, yes i've got it. I just guess i'm used to driving games not needing a wheel to play with that's all.

IF Sony hadn't cocked up the pad design in the first place it wouldn't matter. Analogue buttons! pfff someone needs to slip a note saying triggers into Mr Playstations donut next time.

You can use the right Analogue stick to you know? Much better than using the buttons.

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Yes but wouldn't you get bored with the fact that you've done the same thing as last time, but just added more cars and tracks, and in you can see the same thing happening over and over again in your future?

Wouldn't you want to see what other directions you could take the technology or even car games in general.  They don't have to do straight sims all the time right?

Bullshit. Its about money. I don't care how delicately the driving experience is simulated in this new game. The genre has been done to death. Move on. Cash-full teams like Polyphony should be showing the way forward with new and original products.

You would not get bored if you liked what you were doing - I'm guessing the Polyphonic team like doing what they do, and so want to do it more!

Such a crazy world we live in, eh? Doing things that we want to do and all...

And I'll answer the second quote with a quote:

I'm guessing the Polyphonic team like doing what they do, and so want to do it more!

Yes?

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I always used the right stick for braking and acceleration in GT until I discovered that rapidly pressing the brake button/pressing it in bursts enabled you to slow down more quickly and with less skiddage.

Having one stick for acceleration *and* braking was a pain, though.

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It would be nice if you could use the analogue stick to accelerate and maybe tap L1 for brakes.

can you do that? that would make it a little bit better

I just tap down quickly when i want to do that.

That's still not braking while accelerating though as you have to stop accelerating.

Seeing as the buttons on the PS2 pad are analogue anyway do any third party pads have R2 + L2 as triggers? That would be a lovely pad and surely the sticks can't be any worse than the offical ones.

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I always used the right stick for braking and acceleration in GT until I discovered that rapidly pressing the brake button/pressing it in bursts enabled you to slow down more quickly and with less skiddage.

This is a technique taught when doing an advanced driving course (or EFAD in the Fire Brigade), it is similar to the workings of an ABS system which releases the brake momentarily when it senses the wheels are about to lock up.

Next time you are out, in the wet, try strongly and rapidly pumping the brake pedal when doing an emergency stop, you will be surpised how much quicker you can stop.

Ermmm....of course please be safe when attempting this, make sure there are no other drivers about ;)

Ohhh...and don't bother if your car has ABS fitted, as it does it automatically :(

I'll get my coat! :huh:

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That's still not braking while accelerating though as you have to stop accelerating.

And this makes you go far quicker round the track?

( I mean accelerating while tapping the brake, or the other way round )

It does when you're going round a super fast corner that doesn't require a full press of the brake, but rather a short tap of the brake+ accelarator.

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This is a technique taught when doing an advanced driving course (or EFAD in the Fire Brigade), it is similar to the workings of an ABS system which releases the brake momentarily when it senses the wheels are about to lock up.

Next time you are out, in the wet, try strongly and rapidly pumping the brake pedal when doing an emergency stop, you will be surpised how much quicker you can stop.

Ermmm....of course please be safe when attempting this, make sure there are no other drivers about ;)

Ohhh...and don't bother if your car has ABS fitted, as it does it automatically :(

I'll get my coat! :huh:

That's why I tried it, actually - there was a section on Driven where they were showing people how to brake suddenly in the wet without skidding, and to my surprise, it worked.

Good old Gran Turismo.

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Why not back off just a little bit of the accelerator?

Sure I know that the accelerator / brake is a well known racing technique, but I don't believe it will matter that much in GT. I think that the set-up of the car is *far, far* more important than to put so much emphasize on the aforementioned technique.

I find it very very hard to believe (and it's affect neglible), and I find, or at least get the impression that, it's being used as a argument to simply diss some controllers, whether justified or not.

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Why not back off just a little bit of the accelerator?

Sure I know that the accelerator / brake is a well known racing technique, but I don't believe it will matter that much in GT. I think that the set-up of the car is *far, far* more important than to put so much emphasize on the aforementioned technique.

I find it very very hard to believe (and it's affect neglible), and I find, or at least get the impression that, it's being used as a argument to simply diss some controllers, whether justified or not.

If you're racing on a tight line through a corner or coming out of a corner, a little dab on the brakes can be the difference between clipping the wall and just missing the wall or putting a wheel off the tarmac.

It's just harder to have precise braking/acceleration using the right stick.

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Erm, on GT3 you can have accelerate on the right thumbstick and brake on L2. It's the way I have the game set up with gear changes on R1 and L1 and look back on R2. I barely use the handbrake so this is on X. It makes the game a lot better with this set up.

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Erm, on GT3 you can have accelerate on the right thumbstick and brake on L2. It's the way I have the game set up with gear changes on R1 and L1 and look back on R2. I barely use the handbrake so this is on X. It makes the game a lot better with this set up.

Holy shit! That would blow my mind!!

I've thoroughly enjoyed PGR2 with it's trigger ways, but I'll admit, I'm looking forward to GT4 just so I can be in control of the gear changes.

To be honest, I found the analogue effect of the face buttons ample for control in GT3.

As for breaking and accelerating together. Is that really a particuarly realistic technique? I know rally drivers did (do still???) use a toe-and-heel method to enable acceleration and braking together but I was under the impression that that method had been dropped in modern racing.

yes, I know these are game we're talking about but still. ;)

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Holy shit! That would blow my mind!!

I've thoroughly enjoyed PGR2 with it's trigger ways, but I'll admit, I'm looking forward to GT4 just so I can be in control of the gear changes.

To be honest, I found the analogue effect of the face buttons ample for control in GT3.

As for breaking and accelerating together. Is that really a particuarly realistic technique? I know rally drivers did (do still???) use a toe-and-heel method to enable acceleration and braking together but I was under the impression that that method had been dropped in modern racing.

yes, I know these are game we're talking about but still. ;)

Full braking only really works only 45%+ type corners. Actually the proper technique for going round fast corners is to slightly ease off the accelarator, tap the brake then full on the accelarator.

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Full braking only really works only 45%+ type corners. Actually the proper technique for going round fast corners is to slightly ease off the accelarator, tap the brake then full on the accelarator.

I KNEW it! Thankyou very much for confirming that. This will now be printed off and rubbed in a few friends' faces.

Yes, I am petty.

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Full braking only really works only 45%+ type corners. Actually the proper technique for going round fast corners is to slightly ease off the accelarator, tap the brake then full on the accelarator.

Hang on a minute, FULL ON the accelerator??? That sounds like the method for sending the back end round sideways and spinning off the track. ;)

I hear what you're saying about the never braking fully thing though. In fact I'd imagine that racing drivers would very seldom brake with full force at all. The power of most race-spec brakes would have them locked up and skidding if you hit the brakes fully. Well, without braking assistance that is...

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Hang on a minute, FULL ON the accelerator??? That sounds like the method for sending the back end round sideways and spinning off the track. ;)

I hear what you're saying about the never braking fully thing though. In fact I'd imagine that racing drivers would very seldom brake with full force at all. The power of most race-spec brakes would have them locked up and skidding if you hit the brakes fully. Well, without braking assistance that is...

Well assuming that the slight tap of the brake doesn't slow you right down, you'd still be travelling at a hefty speed and thus going full on the accelarator wouldn't cause you to spin out.

Locking up brakes can be incredibly fun sometimes.

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When it comes to GT4, if Polyphony released GT3 with new cars, tracks and competitions, I would be happier than a pig in shit. GT3 is my top game of all time and I stillp play it, despite having owned it since the day before it was released in Europe.

My only complaint with GT3 was the competitions needed a bit more variation and mayne a few more restrictions, such as the HP limits that were in GT2. Just to make the racing closer and more interesting.

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Graphically, GT4 is the dogs as is the 'base' physics (that is, the basic driving physics are the best there is)

But why is the game so seemingly boring to play these days?

I still think what Polyphonic need to do is :

Remove the slow cars (a complete waste of time IMHO)

Introduce 'Crash' physics.

Introduce better AI.

Add some kinda fun factor into the game (the crash physics would help).

I mean, nobody (including me) is tired of Toca, or CMR (which, intrestingly, have fair crash physics), yet potentially, the GT series would allow for better racing.

Another fault is the 6 car rule. It does not feel like a real race with only six cars.

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My only complaint with GT3 was the competitions needed a bit more variation and mayne a few more restrictions, such as the HP limits that were in GT2. Just to make the racing closer and more interesting.

Yeah, but all it takes is a bit of discipline really ;)

And don't always go for top spec cars for racing, that helps, or deliberately take less hp.

As for turning in GT, I brake just before the corner then with the accelerator you can "feel" when you can go full out again (by accelerating more or less), or back off slightly if necessary for taking the bend.

For me, this seems to work the best.

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Full braking only really works only 45%+ type corners. Actually the proper technique for going round fast corners is to slightly ease off the accelarator, tap the brake then full on the accelarator.

It's all about being clever with the weight of the car.

Heavy braking at the last minute pushes the weight to the front of the car, making the front tyres grip more. This is when you make the steering input for the corner. Then once you've followed the correct line, get back on the power as soon as possible.

I prefer left-foot braking, holding both the throttle and brake and never letting got of the throttle. This ensures the weight is always at the front of the car until you're ready to power out of it.

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The most fun I had with Gran Turismo was a few months after I had started to become bored with it, when I discovered the unbridled joy of racing with a completely unmodified Viper RT/10 in one of the unmodded car trophys - it was much more fun battling against it on Autum Ring mirrored and playing with weight shifting at lower speeds than rattling around the courses easily in the likes of a fully modded Subaru.

It looked lovely in the replays too. ;)

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I still think what Polyphonic need to do is :

Remove the slow cars (a complete waste of time IMHO)

Introduce 'Crash' physics.

Introduce better AI.

Add some kinda fun factor into the game (the crash physics would help).

I mean, nobody (including me) is tired of Toca, or CMR (which, intrestingly, have fair crash physics), yet potentially, the GT series would allow for better racing.

Another fault is the 6 car rule. It does not feel like a real race with only six cars.

I think losing the slow cars is a terrible idea, so would the car manufacturers. GT is being targetted at people who can actually buy cars. If it only concentrated on expensive cars, it would have a detrimental effect to their car sales.

People who play videogames buy Impreza's and Type R's because of GT. Sure many may have bought them anyway, but games like GT have made these cars household names.

The old chestnut of crash physics is also a pretty lame one. If you can drive properly, you won't crash. I can't remember the last time I crashed in GT, so I think thousands of man hours on testing and implementing such a system would be a complete waste.

AI, fair enough but that's not the point of GT. GT is about you, the track and shaving a couple of tenth's off your best time.

I'm sick to death of TOCA incidentally. Nowhere near the polish of the GT series. Colin McRae is better, but the graphics leave a lot to be desired. It also requires immense concentration, so having a conversation with anyone in the same room as you is out of the question.

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It's all about being clever with the weight of the car.

Heavy braking at the last minute pushes the weight to the front of the car, making the front tyres grip more.  This is when you make the steering input for the corner.  Then once you've followed the correct line, get back on the power as soon as possible.

I prefer left-foot braking, holding both the throttle and brake and never letting got of the throttle.  This ensures the weight is always at the front of the car until you're ready to power out of it.

Exactly, except the last bit ;)

If you accelerate the weight of the car *WILL* go to the back.

And yes, I also think that a large part of the fun of GT is also how the car reacts to your input and your "fight" with it and how that at the end results in new records. I do wish the A.I. was better though, wish they'd have that fixed sooner, or rather, than, crashing....

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