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Timmo

Why is Monster Hunter so revered?

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I wrote a huge post on this already which I lost, so I’m gonna do a shorter one with bullet points which will probably be easier to read anyway.

  • I got a Wii U last month and right at the top of the list was Monster Hunter 3U. As a big fan of the Souls games I like combat where every attack has to be considered and recklessness is punished. But this just seemed to be stuck in a rut that it got itself into when it first appeared back on PS1 (edit - PS2!).
  • I played around 10-15 hours, trapped one large monster and completed all quests up to the first flying monster, or flying dickhead as I call him.
  • I understand that preparation is a large part of the game, and made sure to have potions, meat, cool drinks, paintballs etc on my person.
  • Monsters don't have health bars. I think this is fine if they are visibly damaged but from what I can see, beyond a slight limp there's not much indication.
  • There's no limb destruction/context sensitive damage. I understand tails can be cut off but to no great advantage. I can't see why, in a game where you do nothing but hunt big monsters, these monsters only effectively have one health bar. Bayonetta was great at showing bosses slowly falling apart as you battered them, this doesn't match up. Limbs should be getting damaged and broken and every slash and bash should leave a mark. This is a game entirely about hunting monsters, and as such their health and status should be way, way more dynamic.
  • Again with the monster damage, I sold the game after failing to kill the flying creature mentioned above. Paintballs are given to you. You can throw these at a monster and then track them. Monsters love leaving zones meaning you have to follow them and watch loading screens. Flying creatures love going to zones far away. This creature would take a few hits before flying away. I followed him across 8 zones. I slashed him about 100 times with my sword. Still he kept flying. All that changed was he got a bit mad. Then my paintball ran out. The paintball ran out.
  • Stupid running-out items. I remembered my paintballs and cool drinks, therefore I was prepared. Why make them run out so quickly?! I'm here to fight monsters, not curse the world of Monster Hunter's poor quality paint.
  • When the paintball ran out and the monster I'd been fighting for over 30 minutes flew away for the eighth time despite me hitting him countless times with a sword, I ejected the disc and subsequently sold it. I'm not sure why I'm fighting him anyway, all he does is fly away. Bloodthirsty villagers.
So yeah, it feels to me like a game stuck in the PlayStation 1 (Edit - 2!) era. I pretty much hated it.
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It wasn't until Monster Hunter 4 that I "got it", probably because they finally nailed the single player as a great introduction. Now I can go back to 3U and it's a breeze whereas I couldn't kill anything before.

FYI paintballs should last long enough to trap or kill a monster. Occasionally you will have to hit them again if you've been fighting for a long time but that's not really an issue when you learn to judge how a fight is going. For someone who claims to love the Souls series you appear to have little patience or desire to learn a game's systems properly.

Monster Hunter is a perfect example of a game where you don't get better through levels and experience but in the knowledge you acquire as a player. Once you learn to read patterns and figure out where certain monsters like to lurk then it's a piece of piss.

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You just need more exp fighting monsters and a few tips - its a great game to play co-op where you can share advise and tip - there is soo much depth that i still elarn something new coming up to 1000 hours across all versions!

There's no limb destruction/context sensitive damage

Well there is- each monster has hit areas, you can damage parts or stun monsters, do more damage on certain areas, if you keep attacking a certain monsters feet maybe they are prone to stumble ore often, perhaps they have a big head that's indestructible - but if you work away at it - it breaks and its super venerable.

You can throw these at a monster and then track them.

Well painball is one way to track them - if you have been fighting for a while why not tag it again? You can carry loads of paintballs 30+. Also with EXP you can tell which direction a monster is going- you can see the direction they leave - follow a shadow if they fly, if they burrow maybe you need to see the ground move a little in the direction they ran in - maybe if you do not like tagging them during battle bring a psycho syrim.

Stupid running-out items

Well each game is 50 mins ish so 5 hot/cold drinks are enough, health items e.t.c can be mixed on the hunt if you need more (i always carry herbs, blue mushrooms and honey X10) but monster hunter is about learning monsters and not getting hit/blocking. The great Jaggi used to kill me all the time - a few hours later of playing him repeatedly i beat him in about 40 mins - several hours later with the same weapons and Armour i got it down to 25 mins! it was a early indication to me of the diffrence of player/gameplay exp can help.


Anyway - its would be cool to jump online with fellow rllmuk-ers to give some tips and advice - heck you may know something we do not :) and have fun!

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It wasn't until Monster Hunter 4 that I "got it", probably because they finally nailed the single player as a great introduction. Now I can go back to 3U and it's a breeze whereas I couldn't kill anything before.

Absolutely! I had the very same experience.

Give MH4 a try. Then if you still don't like it, I guess the series just isn't for you.

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  • Monsters don't have health bars. I think this is fine if they are visibly damaged but from what I can see, beyond a slight limp there's not much indication.
  • There's no limb destruction/context sensitive damage. I understand tails can be cut off but to no great advantage. I can't see why, in a game where you do nothing but hunt big monsters, why these monsters only effectively have one health bar. Bayonetta was great at showing bosses slowly falling apart as you battered them, this doesn't match up. Limbs should be getting damaged and broken and every slash and bash should leave a mark. This is a game entirely about hunting monsters, and as such their health and status should be way, way more dynamic.

This was my main issue with it, it's the sort of game where I'd love to see many gradual but visibly noticable effects especially given the scale of some of the things. But, as you say, generally you can be hacking away with your greatsword for ages and all you get is it eventually hobbling about a bit, I was just expecting a bit more like this on that front:

3ebpR09.gif

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You probably don't like it as you where playing an imaginary one on the PlayStation 1, the game was first released on the PlayStation 2.

Seriously though, it was a niche game and one that needs a fair amount of dedication and some grinding (but enjoyable in my opinion), but it is isn't that niche any more with the latest 3DS version doing very well sales wise (over one million) and I think the latest version is probably the most accessible without losing the core elements that make it fun.

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Clearly, since a lot of things you mention in the first post are incorrect!

Well help me out, other than shynra's good post at the top we've got two people effectively answering the thread's question "because it is" and not much else. Tell me why this game isn't stuck in the year 2000 and what I'm missing out on.

He's just playing into the internationally renowned idiot persona.

Teehee!

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If you got rid of the game before the "Capture Qurupeco" quest, you didn't see what the game truly becomes. (I'm assuming this is the monster you mean by "Flying Dickhead". It's a pretty accurate description.)

Monster Hunter is revered, and rightly so. It doesn't hand much to you, makes you work for everything, and is even quite evil at times in terms of the random rewards it trickles out. If you want certain armours, then you need certain drops, and some of them are as low as 2% chance. Repeatedly fighting Pink Rathian for the Ruby can be a grind, and you actually need 2 of them to complete the armour set. And it is even worse than I'm making it sound. Your first fight against Pink Rathian will probably be over very quickly, as she one-shots you with an attack that you had no idea she was capable of. You've fought Rathian loads of times before now, WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?

Your 10th fight, though, is over equally as quickly. You now know all her tricks. You know where she goes, when she is about to go there. You know exactly how to hurt her. How to get her down, and keep her down, to not get poisoned, to not get burnt.

It sounds to me like you have made the standard, predictable, classic mistakes that many make with this series. You wanted the treasure, but weren't prepared to dig for it. And, that's cool. There are more than enough games in the world that will give you the gratification you seek long before the 15 hour mark. At 15 hours, though, Monster Hunter hasn't even shown you 5%. And, please, don't confuse what I'm saying here. I am not denigrating your gaming skill. I'm not saying it's too hard for you. I'm just saying that it has far more depth than you even realise at this point. Every single complaint you have is one that can be dismissed because, once you have gotten to the point where you truly understand the game, they all make total sense.

  • Again with the monster damage, I sold the game after failing to kill the flying creature mentioned above. Paintballs are given to you. You can throw these at a monster and then track them. Monsters love leaving zones meaning you have to follow them and watch loading screens. Flying creatures love going to zones far away. This creature would take a few hits before flying away. I followed him across 8 zones. I slashed him about 100 times with my sword. Still he kept flying. All that changed was he got a bit mad. Then my paintball ran out. The paintball ran out.
  • Stupid running-out items. I remembered my paintballs and cool drinks, therefore I was prepared. Why make them run out so quickly?! I'm here to fight monsters, not curse the world of Monster Hunter's poor quality paint.
  • When the paintball ran out and the monster I'd been fighting for over 30 minutes flew away for the eighth time despite me hitting him countless times with a sword, I ejected the disc and subsequently sold it. I'm not sure why I'm fighting him anyway, all he does is fly away. Bloodthirsty villagers.

There's no shame in not beating something at the first time of asking. Games are allowed to be a challenge. They are allowed to gradually get more difficult, to expect your skills to increase. But, you don't seem to want Monster Hunter to do that. Which, as I said, is cool. I certainly don't enjoy every game out there, and have also stopped playing things at the first roadblock. I almost threw the first Mass Effect to the side because I got stuck on one encounter, left it sitting unplayed for a couple of years, only returning to it in time for Mass Effect 3. At no point, though, did I feel the need to question why people liked Mass Effect. You are angry at a game that beat you. Just accept that, and move on.

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No matter how much of this game someone plays, I suspect you'll always get someone else coming in and patronisingly saying "well, you just haven't played it enough". It's interesting that people are preferring to concentrate on points other than the apparent lack of damage visibility, which is what the majority of the text is criticising though.

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They do have damage visibility. They drool when tired, limp when hurt, you can smash off scales and horns, cut off wings and tails, make them dizzy, stun them, trip them over, trap them, track them. You don't need a lifebar because of all of these visual cues. You're watching the monster carefully rather than a diminishing health bar.

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Qurupeco: 1

Timmo: 0

You would have seen it getting damaged, you just weren't hitting it enough: http://monsterhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Qurupeco

You did better than my first attempt at Monster Hunter, though. I tantrumed off it for a week after it kept taking me ages to kill Great Jaggi and I repeatedly failed to get the material you can get by breaking its face. I came back, took my time and now it's a game I buy systems for.

Some of the monsters are initially fucking annoying, this gets less of an issue as you get better with your weapon and you figure out the different systems in the game, but initially you just have to learn how to fight them better - if you'd been laying down more damage, it would have been falling over more, flinching more, getting tired and getting parts broken, all of which are driven by their own individual health bar equivalents and all of which stop it flying away as much.

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I wouldn't bother Monkey they only played it for 15 hours and couldn't even kill Qurupeco.

A Monster Hunter hate thread, surely a new low.

This is the UBER GAME, the thinking mans action game, it's like a Streetfighter Boss rush with Dinosaurs, it's as much about when you hold back as when you attack. It has it's own logic and is not afraid to stick to it. You wouldn't have Dark Souls without Monster Hunter they stole so much from it, if you like deep games you owe it to yourself to stick with it at least until you fight Rathian, a couple of Great Jaggi's and a failed Qurupeco hunt is simply not enough.


Basically I am really angry now.

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They do have damage visibility. They drool when tired, limp when hurt, you can smash off scales and horns, cut off wings and tails, make them dizzy, stun them, trip them over, trap them, track them. You don't need a lifebar because of all of these visual cues. You're watching the monster carefully rather than a diminishing health bar.

Fair enough, I've just not seen much of that in videos or in the brief time I've played it. I guess it's given the weaponry you have, the effect you see made it feel like I was using plastic cutlery rather than a blade twice the size of myself and I think it could do a lot more with that.

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...

A proper response, thank you, although a bit more patronising than you're intending it to be. I certainly wasn't angry, just massively disappointed with the game. I'm also not belittling others' like of the game. I can see the appeal of it, and I certainly like a challenge and have patience (I finished Ninja Gaiden 2 on its highest difficulty which took all I had) but the fight I mentioned above just felt like a massive waste of my time. I had his moves down, but he just kept flying away.

I'm firmly of the belief that player skill should be the biggest factor in a game but it was clear in that fight, when I'd hit him many, many times over the course of half an hour, that I needed my weapon to have a bigger number coming out of it. It's similar to why I hate Destiny.

The biggest problem I have is that these are monsters with no health bars who also don't get visibly damaged (significantly), and I'm there with my sword wondering if it's strong enough. At least in Destiny you could tell pretty quickly. Do I fight this monster for 45 minutes hoping that the sword is strong enough? Or do I level it up by spending hours fighting other things first? From what I played the feedback wasn't enough.

I was ready to throw hundreds of hours into the game but it couldn't grab me and I think the damage model I go over above was very much the main reason for for that.

And calling this a 'hate' thread is embarrassing, Melon.

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Fair enough, I've just not seen much of that in videos or in the brief time I've played it. I guess it's given the weaponry you have, the effect you see made it feel like I was using plastic cutlery rather than a blade twice the size of myself and I think it could do a lot more with that.

Ah let me guess you were walking around with the Greatsword out trying to do combos thinking why the fuck is this thing so slow?

Problem with this thread will be those who love the game will have put in 100+ hours, and those who hate it 15.

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Ah let me guess you were walking around with the Greatsword out trying to do combos thinking why the fuck is this thing so slow?

Problem with this thread will be those who love the game will have put in 100+ hours, and those who hate it 15.

Same with any long game. I didn't hate it, just never wanted to play it when I wasn't.

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A proper response, thank you, although a bit more patronising than you're intending it to be. I certainly wasn't angry, just massively disappointed with the game. I'm also not belittling others' like of the game. I can see the appeal of it, and I certainly like a challenge and have patience (I finished Ninja Gaiden 2 on its highest difficulty which took all I had) but the fight I mentioned above just felt like a massive waste of my time. I had his moves down, but he just kept flying away.

I'm firmly of the belief that player skill should be the biggest factor in a game but it was clear in that fight, when I'd hit him many, many times over the course of half an hour, that I needed my weapon to have a bigger number coming out of it. It's similar to why I hate Destiny.

The biggest problem I have is that these are monsters with no health bars who also don't get visibly damaged, and I'm there with my sword wondering if it's strong enough. At least in Destiny you could tell pretty quickly. Do I fight this monster for 45 minutes hoping that the sword is strong enough? Or do I level it up by spending hours fighting other things first? From what I played the feedback wasn't enough.

I was ready to throw hundreds of hours into the game but it couldn't grab me and I think the damage model I go over above was very much the main reason for for that.

And call

The biggest problem I have is that these are monsters with no health bars who also don't get visibly damaged, and I'm there with my sword wondering if it's strong enough. At least in Destiny you could tell pretty quickly. Do I fight this monster for 45 minutes hoping that the sword is strong enough? Or do I level it up by spending hours fighting other things first? From what I played the feedback wasn't enough.

You've been told a few times in this thread already that the Monsters do have visible damage and low health tells, your problem is you spent 50 mins chasing Qurupeco all over the map, if you had stuck with it and tried a few more times you would have killed him in less than 10 mins.

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Ah let me guess you were walking around with the Greatsword out trying to do combos thinking why the fuck is this thing so slow?

No, I wasn't and I don't see where I might even have implied that? I'm actually not sure whether you're making joke posts or not :unsure:

edit: Fucking hell, you're actually not posting tongue in cheek.

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Same with any long game. I didn't hate it, just never wanted to play it when I wasn't.

It's not really a long game in the massive JPRG sense, the fights are 50 minutes max so it's a perfect hour here and there game. And the early fights are just as enjoyable as the endgame.

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And the early fights are just as enjoyable as the endgame.

As in the fights in the first 15 hours? The fights that people who aren't allowed to have an opinion on the game have played?

Problem with this thread will be those who love the game will have put in 100+ hours, and those who hate it 15.

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I am not actually angry, I am very rarely angry. Mildly annoyed maybe.

We've been thru this crap with MH tons of times, I'd be very rich if I had a pound for everytime someone gave up MH saying it was crap then got convinced to stick with it until it finally reveals it's depths and they end up loving it. MH thread is full of em, some of them will be in here eventually. I'm not taking you all on by myself, you dislike a game you hardly played I get it, just saying if you did let it get it's claws in you would see what a fine, fine thing it is indeed.

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The biggest problem I have is that these are monsters with no health bars who also don't get visibly damaged, and I'm there with my sword wondering if it's strong enough. At least in Destiny you could tell pretty quickly. Do I fight this monster for 45 minutes hoping that the sword is strong enough? Or do I level it up by spending hours fighting other things first? From what I played the feedback wasn't enough.

It's really designed as a co-op game, unlike Dark Souls or Ninja Gaiden. Even on the PS2, it was an online game. That's where the fun is, not doing it solo, unless you're a masochist with too much time on your hands. If it was a solo game, it wouldn't have taken off in popularity in Japan, and would remain as niche as those other mentioned games over there.

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