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Horizon Zero Dawn


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I found out why he got banished, yes. You have to talk to the person who knows - Teersa - towards the end of the game and she explains it. Like a lot of the story, it's optional. You don't have to talk to everyone, don't have to read (or even find) every audio and text log, don't have to piece together the stories from the Banuk idols, the vantages, etc. But they do tell a fairly rich story if you do. 

 

I wouldn't say any of the characters are 'living like savages'. The have a very lo-tech civilisation - some more advanced than others - but they have civilisations. Savages is a derogatory term used to connote violent, uncontrolled creatures. Almost feral. I don't think any of them are that, and, again, if you've followed the story, there's a good reason for that. They've been 'brought up proper', to an extent, and there's also a reason they all (in this area) speak English. Some of them very well. And there's a reason you're supposed to be pissed off at the Nora - they did exile you, after all. (There's a reason for that exile, too, and it's more subtle than I reckon you'd imagine given what you've written.)

 

You haven't spoiled anything for me, but you do seem to have missed a lot of the story somehow. Maybe that spoilt it for you.

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Why did Rost get banished? Feel free to spoiler the shit out of everything.

 

heres what I got:

 

Spoiler

Ted Faro's robots went mental and took over the earth, eating anything alive. To preserve the human race elisabet made the zero dawn project that preserved embryos of humans and animals underground and sealed them so the robots would finish it all and then run out of power.

 

then her AI program Gaia would release everything back (including the people) once it had also re-terraformed the planet.

 

then ted farro went bonkers and wiped all the information of earths history for the new human race to learn when they started up again.

 

part of Gaia, hades, keeps trying to restart the whole thing (because it also went bonkers) by destroying the biosphere for good.

 

Because of this Gaia was also stopped from creating dangerous robots which is why there are so many around.

 

Anything else?

 

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A huge calamity years and years years ago in he ancient past. Machines meant to help you now turning against you. Open world. Crafting. Looting. Shooting arrows. Taking down huge mechanised beasts. Terrible voice acting.

 

But enough about Zelda!

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3 hours ago, Gorf King said:

 

 

On the spoiler stuff: 

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There are tons of 'modern' deathbringers in the game. This one's corrupted, so it's stronger than usual, but it's just a deathbringer, which some people have criticised the game for - they expected a bigger, more difficult last boss fight. I think that's fair enough as a criticism really. But I guess the devs didn't want you to fight an ancient Faro robot for the exact reason you describe - the game might be over in seconds, because it'd just release the nano shit and you'd be dead. So quite consistently, they have Hades summon a corrupted death bringer - and several other corrupted machines, all of which we've seen before - because they are under his control. You can see they're corrupted by the visual effects, so it's pretty obvious they're not Ted Faro's babies just unearthed. Now, I might have that wrong, but that's the way it seemed to me.

 

 

 

I don't think that's right.

 

As I saw it:

Spoiler

 

The boss machine was corrupted, like others, but that doesn't mean it or the others were "modern".

 

There are no "modern" Deathbringers. They and the other war machines are relics of the Robotocalypse that have been dug up by Eclipse on the orders of Hades. We saw them doing that, and were told that they were doing that.

 

The only "modern" machines are the ones that are continuing to be made by the Cauldrons: Gaia's green machines for repairing the biosphere.

 

I assume that the reason the various war machines didn't just simply all activate their biomass convertors anyway, without Hades having to send the Extinction Protocol signal via the Spire, is that Gaia's deactivation signal of ~1000 years earlier specifically turned that function off when it shut them all down. Hades could get human agents to dig up and repair war machines, and could then take control of those machines (plus green machines), but it needed the Extinction Protocol to be activated and broadcast to actually turn on the "EAT EVERYTHING!" function.

 

 

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The way I see it,

 

Spoiler

the 'modern' ones are the ones brought under Hades' control in the modern era, just like the other machines who've been brought under that control. The ancient ones are the ones that the extinction protocol signal activates right at the end. The one that is fought at the end is a corrupted deathbringer, acting under Hades' command rather than under the instruction of the Faro-designed AI ('virus') - you can see Hades corrupt/issue its instructions to it. So it's not responding to the signal at all or the extinction protocol, but to Hades' control, like the other machines in that fight.

 

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32 minutes ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

Yes, but...

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It wouldn't be much of an ending if the boss machine's biomass convertor was activated when the signal went out and it simply ate Aloy.

 

 

 

Well yeah. We get that, it's just a plot hole that wasn't accounted for.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

The way I see it,

 

  Reveal hidden contents

the 'modern' ones are the ones brought under Hades' control in the modern era, just like the other machines who've been brought under that control. The ancient ones are the ones that the extinction protocol signal activates right at the end. The one that is fought at the end is a corrupted death bringer, acting under Hades' command rather than under the instruction of the Faro-designed AI ('virus') - you can see Hades corrupt/issue its instructions to it. So it's not responding to the signal at all or the extinction protocol, but to Hades' control, like the other machines in that fight.

 

 

Spoiler

All deathbringers were ancient and dug up, along with the corruptors. Huge plot hole.

 

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8 hours ago, Gorf King said:

What's the plot hole?

 

Spoiler

That a super intelligent AI didn't use a much more effective way to guarentee dispatching the only person who could stop it, despite having said way (nonomachine things) at its disposal.

 

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Jeez, the only time you see a robot use those nanomachines (son!), is at the end when Hades sends out the call (temporarily) and it eats a plant, before the signal is reversed and they go dormant again.

 

Its not a plot hole.

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52 minutes ago, amorenod said:

But is it really a weapon? Or

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the mean to feed/recharge

, never intended as a weapon? The way I see it,

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that reanimated Deathbringer initiated the feeding process to recharge after hundreds of years inactive, not as an attack.

 

 

They couldn't use it till they use the thing to send the signal to activate it.

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Why? They used it centuries before - and on their own account. Unless, of course - as I was saying - the 'modern' ones differ from the ones unearthed at the end by dint of their programming. Which they obviously do.

 

I spent a wonderful lunch break typing my thoughts up on this, but I see amorenod and Ben have covered both my main points in about 100th of the word count. Never mind! Here goes a lot of nothing.
 

Spoiler

 

My contention is that the machines over which Hades has taken direct control are differently-programmed to the ancient ones run by the Faro AI (the ‘Faro Plague’). There are several possible reasons for that, but you can physically see the difference in the one he controls at the end of the game, because it has that corruption stuff writhing around it, and the couple that you see come out of the ground after reactivation by the Spire signal do not. But forget about that physical distinction for a moment and let’s look at those possible reasons starting with an examination of the nature of the biomass-consuming mechanism itself. 

 

First let’s ask your plot hole question. If the ‘modern’ deathbringers controlled by Hades can just eat up biomass, why does Hades need the Spire to achieve complete destruction of the biosphere? Why can’t he just use the handful of machines he already has to do it? Why doesn’t he just get them to release the nano shit that consumes biomass? Well, as I see it, that’s not because in them he hasn’t already got enough conventional firepower to kill all the humans he needs to - without Aloy, it doesn’t seem to me they’d stand much of a chance. But even in the course of events as they unfold, why do we never see them use the nanomachines in a fight? 

 

I think the key is that the biomass-devouring nanomachine cloud that the ancient machines used isn’t a weapon at all. It’s a method which is supposed to be invoked to sustain the machines in a crisis - in other words, it’s an emergency fuel mechanism designed to facilitate their survival when not being fuelled by something else as anticipated. The ancient Faro swarm went on a rampage with their actual weapons. It also released the nano cloud as it went, almost as a byproduct, to fuel itself, because the humans were like ‘hey, fuck you - no supper for you tonight!’. The reason the Plague ended up destroying all life on Earth was that it was under attack by humans, and so fought back with its weapons, and completely incidentally it self-replicated so much it needed increasing amounts of biomass to survive. In the end it would have gone dormant for want of fuel, but the Minerva subroutine deactivated it - else it would have reawoken as soon as any new life appeared to fuel it, before hibernating again.

 

When you see the first ancient deathbringers get brought back to life at the end with the reactivation code (rather than being dug up and somehow reprogrammed/‘corrupted’ - which is what I mean by ‘modern’ machines), what’s the first thing you see them do? They release a swarm of nanites, get some food off the trees, and the nanites return to their host, nourishing it, and then become inactive. There are still only a handful of these newly-reactivated Faro machines, and they really don’t need that much food to survive - just a bunch of leaves seems to be enough. What they use for weapons is their actual weapons.

 

Hades needs to reawaken all the machines because he needs the Horus-class fabricators back to start making yet more machines, to reach such a number that in order to survive they’ll need to launch so much of the nanite swarm that all biomass on the planet will be consumed, just like in the old days. He can’t wipe all life out with a small number of machines, because at the rate they’ll need to feed they might well be, in effect, a sustainable life form - or one that will take centuries to destroy all life, which might be a bit of a problem given there are humans not wishing them well during this period. The whole point of the Faro Plague was that its population was ever-growing and spiralled out of control, denuding the planet of life just to feed itself, to survive. This is what Hades’ extinction protocol seeks to achieve, and why he needs to broadcast it from the spire. Just having one, or ten, deathbringers under his direct control won’t do that.

 

So the reason the ‘modern’ deathbringers (or corrupters, for that matter) don’t use nanomachines is simply that they’re not starving, and they’re not programmed to use those things as a weapon. The Faro AI consumes biomass to survive when other types of fuel are unavailable. The ‘modern’ ones don’t have any such need, because presumably they’re being fuelled by Hades (what fuels him, I wonder?), or at least don’t need biomass in sufficient quantity to pose a threat to humanity, let alone the entire ecosystem. And if Hades’ modern ‘corruption’ programming did include instructions to use biomass fuel, and/or Hades didn’t provide their fuel himself - and there's no sign it did, which you seem to accept yourself - I get the feeling that the humans Hades needs to enlist would have seen their new allies as something distinctly hostile to them. And even if they were programmed to use the nanite swarm to consume biomass, the ancient ones that are not the ‘corrupted’ sort of wake up after having a flat battery for centuries, munch on a few leaves, and they’re up and running. So just how much destruction of the biosphere would a handful do?

 

So I don’t think biomass consumption is part of the makeup of Hades’ little gang of ‘modern’ deathbringers. And even if it is, it’s not a weapon as such, more an indiscriminate ‘go get me a snack’ mechanism. Not a targeted means of destruction. 

 

The other implication of the last fight is, of course, is that some time after the initial reactivation we see, Hades will have reprogrammed all the ancient machines with something not there in Faro’s day - the extinction protocol - and just get them to deliberately destroy the ecosystem, this time in sufficient numbers to do the job. But, for whatever reason, that conveniently (videogames, eh?) takes a few minutes, hence the timer in the last boss fight. Or else why is the timer there at all? And he doesn’t get to the end of that timer before we win the fight and the master override is applied - so that deathbringer doesn't have the extinction protocol, just the 'corruption' that all other 'modern' corrupted machines have.

 

Unless you’re really slow at killing the deathbringer, of course, in which case the timer expires, the protocol is set, and it’s bye-bye world. Haven’t tried doing that myself, actually - might be instructive to see what happens. But the handful of machines he used before broadcasting that protocol - the ‘modern’ ones - have definitely not had that extinction protocol programmed into them. That’s why I distinguish them from the ones he seeks to reactivate - they have a different purpose and programming.

 

 

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I don't believe the signal was that specific, it was only to activate all the dormant robots. They would then proceed to consume the biosphere again, not by following an order from Hades, but by following their grow & consume procedures. Hades simply would benefit from it and achieve its goal.

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14 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

Why? They used it centuries before - and on their own account. Unless, of course - as I was saying - the 'modern' ones differ from the ones unearthed at the end by dint of their programming. Which they obviously do.

 

I spent a wonderful lunch break typing my thoughts up on this, but I see amorenod and Ben have covered both my main points in about 100th of the word count. Never mind! Here goes a lot of nothing.
 

  Hide contents

 

My contention is that the machines over which Hades has taken direct control are differently-programmed to the ancient ones run by the Faro AI (the ‘Faro Plague’). There are several possible reasons for that, but you can physically see the difference in the one he controls at the end of the game, because it has that corruption stuff writhing around it, and the couple that you see come out of the ground after reactivation by the Spire signal do not. But forget about that physical distinction for a moment and let’s look at those possible reasons starting with an examination of the nature of the biomass-consuming mechanism itself. 

 

First let’s ask your plot hole question. If the ‘modern’ deathbringers controlled by Hades can just eat up biomass, why does Hades need the Spire to achieve complete destruction of the biosphere? Why can’t he just use the handful of machines he already has to do it? Why doesn’t he just get them to release the nano shit that consumes biomass? Well, as I see it, that’s not because in them he hasn’t already got enough conventional firepower to kill all the humans he needs to - without Aloy, it doesn’t seem to me they’d stand much of a chance. But even in the course of events as they unfold, why do we never see them use the nanomachines in a fight? 

 

I think the key is that the biomass-devouring nanomachine cloud that the ancient machines used isn’t a weapon at all. It’s a method which is supposed to be invoked to sustain the machines in a crisis - in other words, it’s an emergency fuel mechanism designed to facilitate their survival when not being fuelled by something else as anticipated. The ancient Faro swarm went on a rampage with their actual weapons. It also released the nano cloud as it went, almost as a byproduct, to fuel itself, because the humans were like ‘hey, fuck you - no supper for you tonight!’. The reason the Plague ended up destroying all life on Earth was that it was under attack by humans, and so fought back with its weapons, and completely incidentally it self-replicated so much it needed increasing amounts of biomass to survive. In the end it would have gone dormant for want of fuel, but the Minerva subroutine deactivated it - else it would have reawoken as soon as any new life appeared to fuel it, before hibernating again.

 

When you see the first ancient deathbringers get brought back to life at the end with the reactivation code (rather than being dug up and somehow reprogrammed/‘corrupted’ - which is what I mean by ‘modern’ machines), what’s the first thing you see them do? They release a swarm of nanites, get some food off the trees, and the nanites return to their host, nourishing it, and then become inactive. There are still only a handful of these newly-reactivated Faro machines, and they really don’t need that much food to survive - just a bunch of leaves seems to be enough. What they use for weapons is their actual weapons.

 

Hades needs to reawaken all the machines because he needs the Horus-class fabricators back to start making yet more machines, to reach such a number that in order to survive they’ll need to launch so much of the nanite swarm that all biomass on the planet will be consumed, just like in the old days. He can’t wipe all life out with a small number of machines, because at the rate they’ll need to feed they might well be, in effect, a sustainable life form - or one that will take centuries to destroy all life, which might be a bit of a problem given there are humans not wishing them well during this period. The whole point of the Faro Plague was that its population was ever-growing and spiralled out of control, denuding the planet of life just to feed itself, to survive. This is what Hades’ extinction protocol seeks to achieve, and why he needs to broadcast it from the spire. Just having one, or ten, deathbringers under his direct control won’t do that.

 

So the reason the ‘modern’ deathbringers (or corrupters, for that matter) don’t use nanomachines is simply that they’re not starving, and they’re not programmed to use those things as a weapon. The Faro AI consumes biomass to survive when other types of fuel are unavailable. The ‘modern’ ones don’t have any such need, because presumably they’re being fuelled by Hades (what fuels him, I wonder?), or at least don’t need biomass in sufficient quantity to pose a threat to humanity, let alone the entire ecosystem. And if Hades’ modern ‘corruption’ programming did include instructions to use biomass fuel, and/or Hades didn’t provide their fuel himself - and there's no sign it did, which you seem to accept yourself - I get the feeling that the humans Hades needs to enlist would have seen their new allies as something distinctly hostile to them. And even if they were programmed to use the nanite swarm to consume biomass, the ancient ones that are not the ‘corrupted’ sort of wake up after having a flat battery for centuries, munch on a few leaves, and they’re up and running. So just how much destruction of the biosphere would a handful do?

 

So I don’t think biomass consumption is part of the makeup of Hades’ little gang of ‘modern’ deathbringers. And even if it is, it’s not a weapon as such, more an indiscriminate ‘go get me a snack’ mechanism. Not a targeted means of destruction. 

 

The other implication of the last fight is, of course, is that some time after the initial reactivation we see, Hades will have reprogrammed all the ancient machines with something not there in Faro’s day - the extinction protocol - and just get them to deliberately destroy the ecosystem, this time in sufficient numbers to do the job. But, for whatever reason, that conveniently (videogames, eh?) takes a few minutes, hence the timer in the last boss fight. Or else why is the timer there at all? And he doesn’t get to the end of that timer before we win the fight and the master override is applied - so that deathbringer doesn't have the extinction protocol, just the 'corruption' that all other 'modern' corrupted machines have.

 

Unless you’re really slow at killing the deathbringer, of course, in which case the timer expires, the protocol is set, and it’s bye-bye world. Haven’t tried doing that myself, actually - might be instructive to see what happens. But the handful of machines he used before broadcasting that protocol - the ‘modern’ ones - have definitely not had that extinction protocol programmed into them. That’s why I distinguish them from the ones he seeks to reactivate - they have a different purpose and programming.

 

 

 

That's probably quite interesting to fans of the game.

Let's face it, Guerrilla fucked it. 

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I just wanted to waste my lunch break because I've been eating too much lately, so thanks, thread.

 

41 minutes ago, amorenod said:

 

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I don't believe the signal was that specific, it was only to activate all the dormant robots. They would then proceed to consume the biosphere again, not by following an order from Hades, but by following their grow & consume procedures. Hades simply would benefit from it and achieve its goal.

 

 

Yeah, it's not clear whether 

 

Spoiler

the transmission of the 'extinction protocol' is a different version of the code that the swarm used to run, or just an activation signal that brings them back in their original state. It's a bit weird and gamified in that you see the initial activation take place (on some robots, at least) and yet there's a timer lasting a few minutes which, if you beat the boss before it expires, is rolled back as the protocol is 'purged'. Now, why it can't be purged after that few minutes are up, and why, if you hack Hades before the timer expires, it can be purged, is due to *hand-wavey* game-related reasons. Just so you can have a boss fight with a timer, I guess. But either way, the machines under Hades' direct command - the corrupted ones, certainly - do not behave like that. And there's no indication that any form of the robots has ever used the feeding mechanism as a targeted weapon - or that it can be targeted.

 

But obviously they do have the tech to release the nanite swarms all along, just not the programming to use them and/or the need to feed in an emergency. (It's absurd to argue that they need the special reactivation signal to have the ability to release nanites, because in their original Faro AI state they could do this - unless you accept that the ones under Hades' control are 'different' in some way, which was my contention all along.) Hence, they are different from the ones unearthed at the end - by definition, because the Faro swarm cannot be controlled, and these can, and are, under control. And the one that you fight is obviously one of the controlled ones, because the game goes to pains to show you it being controlled by Hades and having all the corruption sprouting from it. 

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6 minutes ago, Strafe said:

What about the line where Lance Reddick says 'Voila'. That didn't fit.

 

Also, can anyone tell me why pedo da...sorry, Rast, got cast out?

 

Sure, let me spend some more time putting together some stuff from the game you've missed.

 

You talk to Teersa at the end and she sits you down for the following conversation:

 

Spoiler

Now, about that time we sent you to live in with a pedo in the woods. Well, the truth is... let's face it, Guerrilla fucked it. Hurrr.

 

ac3.jpg 

 

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56 minutes ago, p1nseeker said:

ITT: Person who skipped large parts of the story describes story as shallow.

 

I didn't describe it as shallow, I just said the main story - the one that I played - had a few plot holes/inconsistencies and the voice acting was a bit shonky in places.

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Well, you actually said that the plot and voice acting were like Battlefield Earth - which, unless you're a big BE fan, means it's shite. And rather than being a bit shonky in places, you said the acting was 'generally pretty awful'. 'Crusty cavemen talking bollocks,' I think, along with 'pedo dad,' 'there's a massive plot hole - why didn't the machines do a thing they can't do' - which isn't an actual plot hole, let alone the few plot holes you're now apparently going to outline - and various other glib one-liners that don't bear scrutiny.

 

So yeah, criticism and discussion is one thing, but I think you're arguing in bad faith here mate. Go and read a YouTube summary or something and stop wasting people's time.

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