Jump to content

Football thread 2015/16 season.


Naysonymous
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, glb said:

 

Tis a good point. In that example a lay-off is an assist, but Rooney did more effective work in the build-up. Don't think football always lends well to black and white statistics because of the variations such as this. Is there a conclusive stat to cover what Iniesta contributes in the same way there is for forwards (goals)? How much distance did he cover, complete passes, block opposition passes, complete dribbles, provide through balls that lead to attacking phases? A combination of all these things and more would probably better illustrate his part within the Barca team.

 

I think clubs themselves have access to stats like that going down to really minute detail and players will be scouted using them, it's just figured that the general public wouldn't want to see them repeated at the end of every match report. And to be fair, I wouldn't. It's interesting to bring these statistics up in articles about them or about how they show the true value of a player's contribution (I think there was a brilliant article about Ozil last year which touched on this kind of thing), but as an everyday thing I couldn't be bothered. If I ever see baseball on tv I look at all the different stats scrolling along the bottom and it looks like ESPN collided into Bloomberg.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, emjay2kay said:

 

I think clubs themselves have access to stats like that going down to really minute detail and players will be scouted using them, it's just figured that the general public wouldn't want to see them repeated at the end of every match report. And to be fair, I wouldn't. It's interesting to bring these statistics up in articles about them or about how they show the true value of a player's contribution (I think there was a brilliant article about Ozil last year which touched on this kind of thing), but as an everyday thing I couldn't be bothered. If I ever see baseball on tv I look at all the different stats scrolling along the bottom and it looks like ESPN collided into Bloomberg.

 

 

 

Yeah, they're good in longer, more detailed articles. Quick stats during coverage don't need to get too far beyond what we have now. 

 

My friend who coaches Guam's goalkeepers showed me some of the stats they use across the pitch. We're talking things that make Football Manager look like a basic Excel sheet, really, really in-depth and that's Guam. Top clubs are probably on another level altogether when you factor in comparitve budgets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Roy Keanes book he mentions Ipswich paying 100k for the tracking on players to see how far they've run and sprints etc... It made the players be more competitive and some players become obsessed with stats.

 

It could have been Sunderland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sean's philosophy is, "always weak quips, all the time."

 

I'm obviously outside looking in, and all I can really offer is educated guesswork, but essentially Van Goal's philosophy seems to have been an extreme version of putting the team above the individual, to the extent that he wanted them to do everything in a very mechanical way, with no room for any deviation from the set moves he gave them, no flair, experimentation, or expression was allowed. He seemingly aimed to turn his players into robots, who moved around the pitch in a very specific way, and always did particular things in a given situation. It also prioritised possession as a way of minimising risk. 

 

The net result was what we could all see - a very predictable side, who were very easy to defend against because no-one did anything off the cuff. I don't know why Martial was allowed to do what he did, taking defenders on and such, but it was noticeable that he was constantly the only source of attacking flair and creativity in the team. You get the feeling that Van Gaal possibly didn't like him always taking the full-back on, but was smart enough to realise that he needed him to keep doing it. Martial might have been getting bollocked in private for not waiting for the fullback to overlap every time, we don't know. 

 

All this is why LVG would occasionally pick out some terrible dull display as a great performance, as it was a performance when the team played closest to his instructions. He would comment that some 1-0 win was fantastic but we just needed more goals, but was too stubborn to consider the possibility that his insistence on sticking rigidly to such a flair-free formula was the very thing that was preventing the team from creating anything. That kind of very mechanical possession football seemed unsuited to the premier league in the end.

 

I think he would have played more attacking football next season, as United have done over the last few months, but who knows really? He's a very strange man. I feel a bit sorry for the way things have gone for him, partially scuppered as he was by injuries and the very high expectations of the fans. However ultimately, it's not an unreasonable hope by the fans to finish in the top four having spent such an unholy amount of money on players, and it wasn't injuries that made his team play such a dull, ineffective style. He'd probably never admit that though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

Sean's philosophy is, "always weak quips, all the time."

 

I'm obviously outside looking in, and all I can really offer is educated guesswork, but essentially Van Goal's philosophy seems to have been an extreme version of putting the team above the individual, to the extent that he wanted them to do everything in a very mechanical way, with no room for any deviation from the set moves he gave them, no flair, experimentation, or expression was allowed. He seemingly aimed to turn his players into robots, who moved around the pitch in a very specific way, and always did particular things in a given situation. It also prioritised possession as a way of minimising risk. 

 

The net result was what we could all see - a very predictable side, who were very easy to defend against because no-one did anything off the cuff. I don't know why Martial was allowed to do what he did, taking defenders on and such, but it was noticeable that he was constantly the only source of attacking flair and creativity in the team. You get the feeling that Van Gaal possibly didn't like him always taking the full-back on, but was smart enough to realise that he needed him to keep doing it. Martial might have been getting bollocked in private for not waiting for the fullback to overlap every time, we don't know. 

 

All this is why LVG would occasionally pick out some terrible dull display as a great performance, as it was a performance when the team played closest to his instructions. He would comment that some 1-0 win was fantastic but we just needed more goals, but was too stubborn to consider the possibility that his insistence on sticking rigidly to such a flair-free formula was the very thing that was preventing the team from creating anything. That kind of very mechanical possession football seemed unsuited to the premier league in the end.

 

I think he would have played more attacking football next season, as United have done over the last few months, but who knows really? He's a very strange man. I feel a bit sorry for the way things have gone for him, partially scuppered as he was by injuries and the very high expectations of the fans. However ultimately, it's not an unreasonable hope by the fans to finish in the top four having spent such an unholy amount of money on players, and it wasn't injuries that made his team play such a dull, ineffective style. He'd probably never admit that though.

 

 

I think you're mostly there, but I think there's an extra stage you never saw. The aim was to go Complete Robot, but to have different players doing different roles, eg. Shaw would overlap Depay, but not Di Maria, where Rojo would never overlap. Then you put those pieces in whatever combination the opponent will be vulnerable to. So if the opponent has Super Amazing Left-Back, then you put the players in that will, when faced with going against Super Amazing Left-Back, they aim to pass the ball backwards and round to target Slighty Average Right-Back instead.

 

Basically a bit like that Google phone where you can upgrade bits individually.

 

The thing is, I don't think that would ever work as well it's hoped. I don't think any premier league team is set up that they have any real flaws that are regularly exploitable, they're just too good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rev said:

 

I think you're mostly there, but I think there's an extra stage you never saw. The aim was to go Complete Robot, but to have different players doing different roles, eg. Shaw would overlap Depay, but not Di Maria, where Rojo would never overlap. Then you put those pieces in whatever combination the opponent will be vulnerable to. So if the opponent has Super Amazing Left-Back, then you put the players in that will, when faced with going against Super Amazing Left-Back, they aim to pass the ball backwards and round to target Slighty Average Right-Back instead.

 

Basically a bit like that Google phone where you can upgrade bits individually.

 

The thing is, I don't think that would ever work as well it's hoped. I don't think any premier league team is set up that they have any real flaws that are regularly exploitable, they're just too good.

 

Yeah, plus with the added caveat that if both full-backs are good, the team would shuttle the ball from side to side and back endlessly, presumably in the hope that one or other fullback would fall asleep.

 

It seems like a kind of football that would work for a big club in a league like La Liga or the Bundesliga, as half the teams in those leagues are of a poor enough quality that they would be beaten by such rote tactics. In the Premier League, there's more of a spread of talent at the moment, and teams are much less likely to roll over for the big teams. Teams are less predictable and often more gung-ho, so even the supposed weaker teams are dangerous, and they're also solid enough that merely having a lot of possession against them doesn't necessarily guarantee goals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our press will eat him alive; your average British person generally doesn't like self-confident, successful people arrogant billy big biscuits. 

They'll probably treat him as they did Mourinho when he joined Chelsea the first time - i.e. with wide eyed amazement and then, two months later, start digging around for dirt.

Zlatan won't care though.

£1m a week? If that's true (it really can't be as it would destroy the whole structure of a club) then David De Gea is worth £1m a day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, ckny said:

Delph out of the Euros. Thank fuck.

 

Are we assuming this because he issued a statement saying how much he loves the euros and will totally be there and it's his favourite tournament?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fairness to Zlatan, he made all of those sides (bar possibly Barcelona) better, and most of them have done far less without him in recent years than with, but yeah, it's not like he's ever played for someone like Leicester City.

 

...

 

Okay, bad example, but still, you know what I mean.

 

Spoiler

Worryingly, Leicester actually were the first team that popped into my head to use as an example. That one's never really sinking in/making sense, is it?!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty easy to play down Ibra's record if you want to and I expected it. The PSG wins aren't particularly impressive (although his goal-scoring record certainly is) but for the others these were competitive leagues, particularly Milan who were far from great before or after he was there.

 

Zlatan's seasons in bold.

 

AC Milan

2007-08 5th

2008-09 3rd

2009-10 3rd

2010-11 1st

2011-12 2nd

2012-13 3rd

2013-14 8th

2014-15 10th

2015-16 7th

 

Inter

2001-02 3rd

2002-03 2nd

2003-04 4th

2004-05 3rd

2005-06 1st

2006-07 1st

2007-08 1st

2008-09 1st

2009-10 1st

2010-11 2nd

2011-12 6th

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He won it twice with Juve also but they got taken away? 

 

His record is amazing and he's such a top striker who can do well in the Prem I reckon. 

His age really doesn't matter because he looks so strong and fit still.

 

Should be a good season especially with Pep joining.

 

I bet Boro's Ben Gibson can't wait to face Zlatan. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.