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Football thread 2015/16 season.

Naysonymous

By Naysonymous,
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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

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That's just awful for Laura Bassett, unimaginably awful. She had to try to cut out that cross - it was heading to a Japan player on the six yards line for a tap-in. So unlucky it ended up in the net.

What makes it worse is that the Japanese coach is a right arrogant prick. That and the fact that England were the better team by a mile.

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Tourist

Tourist

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Terrible way to lose it, especially given that Japan have been really poor.

Agree it is a terrible way to lose it - the own goal was horrible. But I disagree that Japan were really poor. They play a patient, technical, unhurried - and honest! - sort of game and I thought they dealt with England's endeavour pretty well. There is room for football to encompass a variety of different playing styles beyond the high-speed hurly-burly of English/Premiership football.

Also, having seen replays of the dive that led to the English penalty, I think it was pretty indefensible really. As bad as the French dive earlier in the tournament.

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smithstock

smithstock

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Yeah terrible goal, was really rooting for them but that was like typical FIFA bullshit. For what it's worth, I didn't think either penalty should have been given too.

Have to agree regarding comments about the Japanese manager though, I don't mind people having an opinion or being controversial but some of the stuff he allegedly said is downright arrogant and disrespectful. He'll probably laugh the result off as Japan being superior rather than England being unfortunate.

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glb

glb

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Really, what is he supposed to have said?

Saw this in the Guardian's match report, not sure if there were other remarks:

“There are places where England fall unintentionally apart,” said Japan’s coach, somewhat sniffily, shortly before kick off. “I wonder how they have been so successful so far?”
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Larsen B

Larsen B

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It's annoying that it was an own goal because then people can say "heartbreaking" and tell Laura Bassett it's not her fault and it's a freak incident instead of looking at the key moment where Duggan, in the 91st minute, plays a hit and hope ball up towards White - who's being marked by 3 players - thus giving Japan the ball with the majority of England players stationed in the opposition half, and allowing them to hit us on the counter.

It's pretty apt that when an Arsenal Ladies player finally gets on the pitch, England concede the sort of goal that Arsenal keep conceding in the Champions League.

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Gabe

Gabe

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Agree it is a terrible way to lose it - the own goal was horrible. But I disagree that Japan were really poor. They play a patient, technical, unhurried - and honest! - sort of game and I thought they dealt with England's endeavour pretty well. There is room for football to encompass a variety of different playing styles beyond the high-speed hurly-burly of English/Premiership football

Nah, its nothing to do with it not being like the Premier League, it's about use of the ball. Like I say, I've only seen Japan play twice, but in both they have been lacking in the final third. It's all well and good playing the ball around in non-threatening areas but, as the 23-pass clip they showed at half-time demonstrated, when they tried to create a chance it fell apart.

One of the reasons most people will say England were the better team is because they were more progressive and created many more chances. Both teams lost possession too frequently and too cheaply so it was hardly one for the purist either. I mean, the best ball they played all night didn't even reach their own player!

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Gabe

Gabe

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On the other hand will we stop talking about woman's football until the next women's world cup, or will this performance raise the profile of the women's game, outside of the arsenal thread?

I'd hope so, having the BBC give it a lot of coverage will help, though counteracted somewhat in Europe due to the late kick off times. I might even look to get tickets for the FA Cup final now.

That said, I'm not going to start watching domestic games (are they even televised at all?) as to be honest I don't have any interest (much like I watch far fewer games not involving Liverpool these days). Will watch tournaments and England games if I see they are on though.

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Tourist

Tourist

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Saw this in the Guardian's match report, not sure if there were other remarks:

As well as the Guardian quote he allegedly said that England play simple football and that Japan are technically superior.

Yeah, I have only seen that in The Guardian and can't find the original Japanese to check the accuracy of the translation. All of the other Japanese interviews, though, he has basically said that he wants to win because his record against England isn't perfect; he notes the fact that his son-in-law is English; he says that he is confident that he can win because he has faith in his team; and he makes the (pretty reasonable, imo) observation that the Japanese players are technically superior to the English players - by which he means their close control and so on. I didn't see anything in there that was denigrating the English team or players; it seems just like the usual sort of platitudes you would expect any manager to make before a match, and similar in tone to the England manager's comments. Like I say though I haven't found the source of The Guardian comment...

Like I say, I've only seen Japan play twice, but in both they have been lacking in the final third.

I agree with this. Basically football in Japan imported a lot of training systems from Brazil and all of their teams - men's, women's, domestic, international - are almost pathologically reluctant to shoot from distance. But the women's team tend to make it work by outpassing their opponents and passing it into the net, or with a moment of brilliance in the box.

Today, I thought the two teams were very evenly matched, with England using their skill and running to disrupt Japan and to create chances, while Japan remained patient and waited for their chances to come. The refereeing decisions evened themselves out I think - though personally I thought the Japanese penalty was fair enough (she was pushed right over the line to the extent that even with the slowed down replays it is difficult to call it either way) whereas the English one was a definite dive.

But I don't think Japan were 'poor' I just think they play a different sort of game that has different strengths and weaknesses - and it will be a similar sort of contest against the USA I would imagine.

EDIT: Just googling for some other interviews with the Japanese manager and I am baffled by the accusations of arrogance. I still can't find the source of the Guardian quote, but for example in one he says, of England (my translation), "they move the play quickly and press from the front. We will need to watch out for their counterattacking play and their direct passing but it's important that we stick to our own game and rhythm and play through the whole team." There's a bunch of other stuff like this, but it is all the same tone, ie. England are fast and direct and will try to disrupt us but we will stick to our own game and are confident that we will get a result.

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ryodi

ryodi

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Japan only had one shot on target and it was the penalty. England created enough chances to win but over committed themselves in the last minute and paid for it. It's disappointing, I just hope Germany doesn't make it worse by thrashing them in the third place playoff. Still I'm optimistic about the Euros in two years time,

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ukdazs

ukdazs

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There's a lot to admire about England's play throughout the tournament, in particular the second half against Norway where they harried and hunted in packs and overwhelmed the opposition to such an extent that they fell apart. Sadly, until they learn to change the pace of the game from time to time and keep possession they're likely to keep coming up short. Far too many times they hoofed a hopeful ball up to a lone striker and just hoped for the best. Even if they'd worked the channels a bit rather than whacking it straight up the middle it would have given a bit of variety to their play but it seemed very one dimensional for the majority of their games.

Horrible way to go out though, Japan looked like Arsenal on a bad day and didn't create enough to deserve the victory.

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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

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Everyone who is questioning where the Japanese coach made his disrespectful comments clearly didn't watch the build-up on the BBC. He was right there on the screen saying he had no idea how England had got as far as they had in the tournament. Via a translator, obviously, so something might have been lost in translation. Seeing as that phrase followed a list of England's failings (they fall apart, etc) and not a positive word, I'm not sure how much the translation is to blame for how he came across.

I wasn't impressed with the Japanese passing game last night. Every player took the easy option at every turn. That's not really the point of a patient passing game. There needs to be more risks taken. Some of their players didn't look very technically proficient at all*, either - defenders tripping over the ball under no pressure, several four-yard passes getting picked off, etc. In the second half England seemed able to win the ball back very easily. It was England's own wastefulness in possession that stopped them winning easily, plus a bit of bad luck in front of goal during that period when they had four or five good chances. I know it was their strategy, but I do wish they had tried something different to the long ball up to the forwards. They needed to play a bit more football, especially in the last twenty minutes, as the striker's legs had gone and they weren't winning any second balls up there. It was one of those long balls that lead to the break for the winning goal.

Incidentally, Larsen B, whatever lead to the goal, it was heartbreaking, particularly for Bassett. You don't have to just be relentlessly critical.

As for the penalties, they were both kind of soft, but as one was given to each team it feels like it evened itself out. The Japan pen was just outside the box, but still a silly challenge. The England one was a foul, just about. Houghton was trying to get onto a loose ball and the Japanese player stood right on her ankle, preventing her from doing so. That's a foul. You might not get them very often as it takes a good spot from the ref, but it's still a foul. Don't be fooled by how Houghton threw herself to the floor, either. I don't believe we have to bring this up again, but some people seem incapable of understanding it, the truth is it is possible for something to be both a foul and a dive. A player might throw themselves to the floor, but there might have been enough contact to constitute a foul. Conversely, sometimes there might be contact without it being a foul. It's not an exact science. In this case, the player standing on Houghton's heel impeded her and arguably stopped her getting to the ball. Just about. So it's borderline, but probably the right decision, and fair enough in the context of the earlier penalty. Anyway, it's the only bit of luck England had.

Over the whole tournament, England have been great. As has been mentioned many times, they showed more heart then the men's team have for about the last twenty years. They should be hugely proud of themselves.

*Not all of them, by any means. Some of the Japan players were class. The one who scored the penalty looked a good player, and the girl who put the cross in for the goal was excellent. I thought their best player was that young winger they bought on as sub. She looked to make things happen, and looked dangerous every time she had the ball. I think that tells you something about the Japan team, in this match at least.

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Tourist

Tourist

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Everyone who is questioning where the Japanese coach made his disrespectful comments clearly didn't watch the build-up on the BBC. He was right there on the screen saying he had no idea how England had got as far as they had in the tournament. Via a translator, obviously, so something might have been lost in translation. Seeing as that phrase followed a list of England's failings (they fall apart, etc) and not a positive word, I'm not sure how much the translation is to blame for how he came across.

Interesting, I will try to see if it is on youtube or iPlayer then, when I have a moment.

(Disagree about the England penalty; in my opinion it is not a foul and a dive, it is just a dive.)

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