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Detroit: Become Human


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6 hours ago, Stevie said:

I've started playing this today and what a pleasant surprise it was. I was unsure when I had to clean apartments, but I've just reached the part where you located the deviant that stabbed his owner to death and I'm really loving it. Love the main characters, love the actors, love the atmosphere, love the exploring, and so far I'm having a blast. Its like a non violent Human Revolution meets Shenmue. Good times. 

I really enjoyed this! I only ever played through the game once though and didn't explore the many different paths through the game. Now that it is available on the PC might pick it up again and work through the story again :) We need some more games like these IMHO.

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12 hours ago, MattyP said:

I really enjoyed this! I only ever played through the game once though and didn't explore the many different paths through the game. Now that it is available on the PC might pick it up again and work through the story again :) We need some more games like these IMHO.


Yes, agreed!
 

I actually had to quit playing last night when trying to escape from Boris Douchedimirs mansion, because I was afraid of the consequences if I didn’t managed to escape with the little girl :(

 

I’m going to have to man up and take care of that creep tonight :angry:

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  • 7 months later...

Currently playing this for the first time (on PS Now) and loving it. The music, characters and visuals have pulled me right in and can't wait until work's over so I can play it again. Playing this in the evenings with a couple of glasses of red, with the rain/snow beating against the windows has just been perfect! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So just started this - does it get more involved?

 

I really like the world/setting (maybe story they've made) but the "gameplay" sections are a real drag (particularly the R2 to find right item, walk to item, stick move, R2 again) aspect.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Hexx said:

So just started this - does it get more involved?

 

I really like the world/setting (maybe story they've made) but the "gameplay" sections are a real drag (particularly the R2 to find right item, walk to item, stick move, R2 again) aspect.

 

 

Not really, it's very simplistic detective mode doesn't get much more involved and it still funnels you to places sometimes even if you know otherwise (the very first scene were you can't go into the girl's bedroom is an embarrassing early example of this. 

 

It's such a shame that obra dinn is roughly a million times better in regards to the detecting and how things unfold but David cage gets loads of money and still had basically just does a lot of smoke and mirrors. 

 

There's a very, very good game to be made out of the concept of a robot detective that can continually die (game over) but it's internal memory (the player) can learn things as it does. This even hints at it occasionally with some of the free running sections- you try something and then if it isn't right, the game says the super robot brain ran that simulation and found it didn't work. You could base a whole game and narrative around that idea really easily and instead this just is a bit of ham fisted racist allegory and not nearly as clever with it's 'flowchart' as virtues last reward and the detecting isn't much better than arkham with a bit of l.a. noire thrown in. 

 

Sorry, I went off on one, I really want a good detective game with multiple branching paths :lol:

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Two very contrasting posts preceding this! A lot of people like to hate on David Cage, but I'm in the 'loved it' camp. I feel his games take the genuinely branching paths concept further than just about any other, and with such high production values too. Must be a colossal effort. I too like how they show the potential missed paths, and percentages of players who took them. Though oddly, I feel no compulsion to replay to get the missing paths. I feel like what I got was my story, and am just happy to know it could have been different. (Also I think it would lose a lot through repetition, and you'd start to see too much of how the sausage was made).

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I was the same but honestly it is worth playing through some of the different choices. There are whole gameplay segments you can miss out on by taking different routes and some vastly different endings. Its an impressive feat, they put in a ton of little branches many players will never see. Definitely recommend doing a second playthrough or at least hit up Youtube to check out some of the alternate sections.

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1 hour ago, SpookyEmc2 said:

Detroit Become Human

Words fail me on what i have just played. If i had to choose one game to convince non gamers that videogames are more than just about mindless violence and they can be emotionally moving, raise ethical and moral questions, then this would be that game.

Its not perfect, but as a story its just stunning. I didnt know videogames could have this level of maturity or that there was an audience for it.

Its rare for me to want to replay a single player story game, but there are so many story options i havent even unlocked. End of every level informs you of your decisions and the percentage of players around the world who played that level. For one level i got 2%. 2% of everyone who played that particular level made the choices i did. 2% thats insane. Another level i got 12%. These were the outliers though.

For me this is one of the greatest videogame experiences not of this generation but if my entire videogaming life.

Feck it im saying it, this game is a Masterpiece.

 

I felt the same after finishing it, just WTF? what an unbelievable experience, the story is so good, the characters and the world they built for them are amazing and there's over 40 different endings and multiple different branches for each character.

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It is a really good game, and the first David Cage game over played to completion. 

 

Despite wanting to, I'm not sure if I'll play through it again, but all aspects of the story are great and so enjoyable. I tried to steer clear of walkthroughs as well and get as natural a play through as I could.

 

Maybe I'll just watch some alternate endings on YouTube or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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A day later and I'm now undecided whether going back to replay a few chapters would somehow lessen the impressions it left with me. 

 

I'm satisfied overall with how my interpretations led to the conclusions of Kara/Alice and Markus storylines. They made it to the end alive.

 

However my Connor storyline took a turn off a cliff when i made one decision in the game, that i now regret. I played through the game and accepted the consequences of my actions. All the way through apart from one fleeting moment, when i changed my mind and restarted the game before my my decision became etched;

Spoiler

The kamski test. Originally i let the andriod girl live. I should have been true to myself and carried on. But no i decided to kill her instead. A perilous decision that carried more weight than i realised. In hindsight it closed off most of a chapter to me and another chapter entirely. 

 

When i found myself as Connor about to carryout a Lee Harvey Oswald assassination i knew my decision to kill the girl was a mistake.

 

I didn't press a single button in the ensuing fight with Hank, just put the controller down. I didn't want Connor to win and carryout his execution. In that moment i sacrificed Connor for what i felt was the great good and my strong desire to keep Marcus alive.

I'm undecided whether to go back and change that decision Connor made, to see the alternative timeline. Or just accept my mistake and the choices i made and walkway with memories intact of a moving experience. After the standing ovation has ended and the curtains drawn, do i really want to go onto the stage and peer behind the curtains and break the illusion?

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11 hours ago, SpookyEmc2 said:

Detroit Become Human

Words fail me on what i have just played. If i had to choose one game to convince non gamers that videogames are more than just about mindless violence and they can be emotionally moving, raise ethical and moral questions, then this would be that game.

Its not perfect, but as a story its just stunning. I didnt know videogames could have this level of maturity or that there was an audience for it.

Its rare for me to want to replay a single player story game, but there are so many story options i havent even unlocked. End of every level informs you of your decisions and the percentage of players around the world who played that level. For one level i got 2%. 2% of everyone who played that particular level made the choices i did. 2% thats insane. Another level i got 12%. These were the outliers though.

For me this is one of the greatest videogame experiences not of this generation but if my entire videogaming life.

Feck it im saying it, this game is a Masterpiece.

Welcome to the forum David!

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I did exactly the same thing Spooky on my first runthrough, but it was because I was roleplaying what I thought Connor would actually do (for the first choice). Ultimately I did go back on a second (and third eventually) playthrough because I wanted to see what would happen, and I think it was worth it. However I did also lose another character right near the end so I had another incentive to play again, make different choices and try to get a better ending. So I went back a third and final time to try some other options and get the best possible ending for all characters (because I got Marcus killed trying something new on the 2nd playthrough!). After that I just hopped around the game because I was curious as to the effects of making some major decisions. It was fun, albeit its a bit tiresome having to replay some of the more slow bits. There's still one major ending branch with Kara I haven't seen which I may revisit sometime (major spoilers ahead).

Spoiler

It's possible to end up in a prison camp with Kara and Alice, I think if you surrender to the guard when you are running from the boat. There's a gameplay segment in the prison. 

 

I'd definitely recommend trying out other choices. Your first playthrough will always seem canon but the set pieces and acting you get on some of the routes you can miss are great.

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Some plot threads are handled with all the subtlety and grace of an episode of EastEnders. The child abuse storyline was so on the nose and heavy-handed and then ended with a contrivance of events at the end of the game so absurd and improbable that it really was just the worst of Cage wrapped up in a single storyline.

 

Markus's storyline...well, quite apart from him being a complete personality vacuum and therefore a chore to play as, very little about this felt plausible. I really felt the pain of a not particularly adept heterosexual, white, male writer attempting to craft a story about the struggle and uprising of an oppressed minority here. I didn't buy into the way the revolution played out at all, it was completely unconvincing and it felt very much like it came from someone who understands very little about how revolutions actually play out.

 

The manner in which surface level elements of real-life historical events were thoughtlessly plonked into the game ('we have a dream!' etc) was completely artless and crass. There's probably a point to be made somewhere about the appropriation of minority groups' struggles and history, and how society tends to retain the most easily digestible and commercially pleasing elements of these stories, such as punchy slogans, while discarding or ignoring the more unpalatable elements, but that level of insight certainly isn't going to be coming from someone like Cage who is barely able to muster a vapid viewpoint of 'this is a bit like racism in 60s America isn't it?'

 

Connor's story was decent and on the whole it was still a step up from Heavy Rain, I'll give the game that at least.

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I gave the game plenty of leeway. After all how many games can we name that even tried to tackle difficult subject matter such as these never mind so many in one game?  In the medium of videogames? Not many i can think of. 

 

I think it should be applauded for what it tries to convey rather than where it falls short. Personally for me this as a triology following the protagonists through their lives (over a few decadea) and struggles could have worked on paper. Whether that would translate to sales i dont know. There were so many avenues the game briefly touched upon that i would have liked to have explored. A sequel or two would have given the writers time to really get to grips with the meatier issues and maybe frame the struggles in a more realisitc timescale.

 

Playing this gave me hope for the medium of videogames. That serious issues can be tackled by videogames, albeit with some immaturity at present. However you have to learn to crawl before you can walk.

 

Again whether it would translate into sales and profit for developer/publisher i dont know, but theres an avenue of videogaming seldom trodden that can deliver some profiund experiences.

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Anyone that thinks this is good and has a good story, go and play obra  dinn, 999 and virtue's last reward.

 

Vlr does the branching pathways and evolving storyline that you as the player finds out SO much better than this it's almost embarrassing. 

 

Fair play if you enjoyed it,  but it's really little more than dragons lair in a lot of places. Playing it once through like Until Dawn is the only way this "works" as the majority of the side stuff is fluff that doesn't make a difference. Yeah you might get a different scene or 'some great acting' (lol) but the other branches in VLR completely change the context or even meaning of whole sections of the game and also the entire premise, location, meaning and ending. 

 

Become human you get very slight changes in some dialogue or when a thing might happen. 

 

That bit in the house when you're the lady and you rescue the daughter is such poor smoke and mirrors if you play through it repeatedly, every time you "break out" of your programming (as any character) it's exactly the same in such a daft and boring way that it might as well be a cut scene. 

 

I don't mean to hate on it but it really isn't anywhere as good as other examples of the genre, they just have a lot less budget. 

 

I'm assuming it's on gamepass considering it's popped up again and if you played it via that, would you say it was really worth 40- 50 quid?

 

Oh and if you think of the world building etc it completely falls apart too. That robot graveyard bit is fucking embarrassing, it's like a 90s teenager came up with it.

Oh and gameplay wise it's completely scripted to the point of being pointless. You could have had an almost westwood's blade runner style part where you could have missed info (or a part) which meant that playthrough was borked perhaps. But no, just atmosphere that then doesn't make sense when you play through the rest of the game. 

Sigh.

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Get outta here man, that sounds like you have hardly played it. VLR is all well and good, but it's mostly static backgrounds and text. The scope of the possible endings in this, for a game of this level of production value, are the best in its class. I'd compare it more to the Telltale games than something like Obra Dinn or VLR. Until Dawn is a better shout for comparison. It was pretty good, but as you identify it cut corners somewhat by having the characters life or death paths largely independent of each other. This is something I think Detroit manages to avoid.

 

Fair enough if you didn't like the story, but again VLR is wildly OTT and not remotely realistic (not a bad thing, but seems to be something you specifically found lacking in Detroit).

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Obra Dinn is so different to Detroit that I don't really see how you can usefully compare them. 

 

For what its worth, I really enjoyed Detroit. Not all of it works - Markus' story puts way too much emphasis on these rousing speeches he makes which supposedly fire up the revolution all by themselves, and it's probably impossible to write and perform something that could believably do that. But for the most part I thought it was well-written with the occasional surprisingly light touch, gave you some genuinely thorny decisions to make, and was surprisingly empathetic towards its characters. It's shooting fish in a barrel to a certain extent - if you take a likeable character and have someone treat them unfairly, then you will almost certainly warm to them, but I thought it was very well-executed here. 

 

The standout scene for me was the one where a homeless woman on the run has to find somewhere safe to sleep on the streets. It's not the grittiest or most realistic take on the situation, but it was believable enough for me, and crucially, it's a scenario I've never, ever seen in a game before. Most games are empowerment fantasies, so it was refreshing and quite affecting to play something that really emphasises just how helpless someone would feel in that situation. It feels odd to say this about a David Cage game, but I thought that scene in particular was surprisingly nuanced.

 

 

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I think the comparison is because Obra Dinn is a detective game. Detroit isn't actually a detective game (or at least, that is not the gameplay), it's just a game about detectives. The scanning stuff and detective vision is indeed simplistic, but its all just fluff to give you some sort of a connection with what is happening on screen and make it all feel interactive. It's a trick, but I'm not ashamed to say it somewhat works on me. Same as pressing a button to empty bins, or all those examples people like to pull out of context to show what a mundane game it supposedly is.

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3 hours ago, K said:

Obra Dinn is so different to Detroit that I don't really see how you can usefully compare them. 

 

For what its worth, I really enjoyed Detroit. Not all of it works - Markus' story puts way too much emphasis on these rousing speeches he makes which supposedly fire up the revolution all by themselves, and it's probably impossible to write and perform something that could believably do that. But for the most part I thought it was well-written with the occasional surprisingly light touch, gave you some genuinely thorny decisions to make, and was surprisingly empathetic towards its characters. It's shooting fish in a barrel to a certain extent - if you take a likeable character and have someone treat them unfairly, then you will almost certainly warm to them, but I thought it was very well-executed here. 

 

The standout scene for me was the one where a homeless woman on the run has to find somewhere safe to sleep on the streets. It's not the grittiest or most realistic take on the situation, but it was believable enough for me, and crucially, it's a scenario I've never, ever seen in a game before. Most games are empowerment fantasies, so it was refreshing and quite affecting to play something that really emphasises just how helpless someone would feel in that situation. It feels odd to say this about a David Cage game, but I thought that scene in particular was surprisingly nuanced.

 

 

I see where you're coming from on this but I think the thing that gets my goat with these games is all of the chat about how open it is when it really isn't and there's so much more that could be done with the premise itself. 

 

It does have some good ideas and scenarios though and yeah, that bit with finding shelter and whether you should stick up the shop or not was a nice set piece.

 

The funfair bit was unnecessary padding for instance but I definitely liked the idea of a funfair run by robots that are all still hanging about. 

But then why are they hanging about at all when apparently the useless robots get scrapped or reused? 

 

It's a difficult proposition though because it does go back to the argument of "why bother making x different paths and branches if no player will see them" or indeed that you'd have to have so many multitudes of possible outcomes it gets too cumbersome. Not least that I think the ideal version in my head would probably be too boring for most people and therefore not make money :P

 

I do think almost a shorter but broader game would be better in regards to making the most out of the flowchart idea but again, would people go back to it? Probably not enough for the cost. 

 

I think it's the slight mis-selling of these games which annoys me, until dawn being a great example of that. It might have even been on here but if you approach that as though the game is 'be a horror movie director' it works better than playing it like a survival horror. As k says, if you play the game thinking it's a multiple branch detective game about a robot (which is pretty much what the demo suggested it was) then you get as annoyed as I did. If, however, you play it as a choose your own adventure Sci fi TV show, it plays better. 

 

 

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Detroit might be the best thing Cage has done, but...but...it's a David Cage game, and that comes with the usual caveats.

 

He's got some great ideas, but - a little like Kojima - he's actually got no real understanding of how you write a decent story.

 

I've given the man a huge amount of leeway over the years, but literally the best thing I ever played from him was the demo section from Fahrenheit. That was really cool. Pity the rest of the game was colossal amounts of shite, but there we go. Detroit is much, much better than this in a whole lot of way but it's still depressingly limited by the big-headedness of Cage himself. 

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Alice question at Rose's house

 

Spoiler

Did I know Alice was a robot?

 

Putting her to bed and she's all "Why do humans hate us" (my emphasis) etc.

 

It's never been revealed she was a robot has it? And she's cold/hungry? They've treated her like a human with cold etc? I was very confused

 

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On 06/03/2021 at 21:01, Hexx said:

Alice question at Rose's house

 

  Hide contents

Did I know Alice was a robot?

 

Putting her to bed and she's all "Why do humans hate us" (my emphasis) etc.

 

It's never been revealed she was a robot has it? And she's cold/hungry? They've treated her like a human with cold etc? I was very confused

 

 

No, I think at that point you / Alice are not meant to know but its fairly heavy on the sign posting all the way through.

 

I completed this last night. Well my core run at least and then dipped back into a few chapters to test things out. Overall content with how my core ending played out but I have some deep issues with the game that completely undermine the great things it does in several places.

Spoiler

 

First off, Markus becoming Robot Jesus with seemingly no explanation whatsoever other than 'plot needed it'. The early chapters create this fantastic and rewarding deviant trigger event for Alice and Markus where everything they have been through and are dealing with at that point reaches a climax and they are set free. I loved that. But then skip forward a few chapters and Markus turns other androids into mindless zombie followers just by touching them and THEN just by fucking looking at them from 100 yards away. Up until then I was heavily invested in everything that was happening but that stripped away any real attachment I had to the whole thing.

 

Secondly, the timeline. We first play as Markus on November 5th and are supposed to accept that only 5 days later he is leading a city wide revolution and something that should take weeks if not months to evolve has kicked off and also come to a head in that space of time. Fuck off! The worst part is there doesn't seem to be any need for the timeline to even be mentioned let alone stated at the start of every chapter. Like Markus becoming Robot Jesus overnight and developing deviant conversion powers that have no explanation it just ruins what good work is done in other areas.

 

 

So yeah, maybe I missed something that dealt with these things but it just ruined the really good stuff the game had.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm enjoying this (Connor's story being by far the most consistent), but did anybody else find the constant parallels between robots and black people problematic? There are a whole bunch of issues which compound this, but it all feels a bit distasteful.

 

Edit, avoiding spoilers so I might have just repeated what people are already saying.

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12 hours ago, therearerules said:

I'm enjoying this (Connor's story being by far the most consistent), but did anybody else find the constant parallels between robots and black people problematic? There are a whole bunch of issues which compound this, but it all feels a bit distasteful.

 

Edit, avoiding spoilers so I might have just repeated what people are already saying.

The go and buy some paint mission is about as subtle as a brick through the window. The robots have their own bit of a bus and even wait at the "back" of the bus stop... 

 

The future bus stop in itself makes little sense and technically why would you even have robots on buses anyway, they could seemingly just walk back to wherever they're going as charging and their power is inconsistent. Not to mention the whole dynamic of are they people or not doesn't work as at some point that whole bus decision was made before these conversations were had. 

Did they put (what I would imagine) the terrible c-3po type equivalent first rounds of cyborgs on buses too?

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Actually turned out I was extremely close to the end. I enjoyed it, but also thought there were massive flaws with this when approached as anything other than a 'save all androids' game. And even then the Kara and Markus bits began to drag.

 

The main issue I had was the world building regarding where androids fit into everyday life was done so poorly that they were never really meant to be considered androids at all. They act human, have human desires and needs, beautiful human appearances, and never come across as AI. Compare to something like the Geth, or HK-47 from KoToR, and they never come across as a real life sentient AI, but instead a human construct- something mimicing sentience, akin to this scene:

 

Given its a videogame actions of the characters are always constrained, but in this game it results in the choices as a deviant being the same as the choices where you are not. As a result, there's never a feeling that the androids were ever meant to be seen as anything other than human.

 

Which makes sense to encourage the player to break those chains of bondage, but makes no sense with regards to how they fit in the wider world. To progress to that point, society must see androids as just machines. If my toaster killed my husband and threatened to kill my daughter because I was buying a new toaster, and others were doing the same, the good ending would be one in which all toasters were rounded up and destroyed. Even if they became sentient, the idea that it was morally bad to not treat them as sentient before that is preposterous. And that's what makes the civil rights stuff and use of the world slavery particularly egregious. Rather than push moral buttons, it actually comes across as more prejudice only matters when the victims are white and beautiful, or suggests there's some sort of moral quandary when it comes to the civil rights movement. The back of buses I find genuinely problematic- it clearly draws parallels to black segregation, but at the same time there's nothing unethical about machines being in a different compartment to humans, so the conclusion you must draw is that black people should have just sat at the back of the bus?). Similarly, by the time Markus is mind controlling everyone into slavishly obeying him, it's both trite and problematic. At a time when racism is still a thing, despite what the UK gov says, playing a game in which machines are the real victims just leaves a bad aftertaste.

 

Also, 30-40% unemployment and no sign of that anywhere?

 

However, I do want to play again, but with a more android friendly approach. I got the ending in which all androids were destroyed (and then 200,000 more ordered? wtf?) which I considered the good humanist approach, but the game definitely sees as morally wrong. Really want to see how the Connor story changes. Tbf, I'd be happy with a game just solving android crimes with a grumpy cliche of a partner.

 

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20 minutes ago, b00dles said:

The go and buy some paint mission is about as subtle as a brick through the window. The robots have their own bit of a bus and even wait at the "back" of the bus stop... 

 

The future bus stop in itself makes little sense and technically why would you even have robots on buses anyway, they could seemingly just walk back to wherever they're going as charging and their power is inconsistent. Not to mention the whole dynamic of are they people or not doesn't work as at some point that whole bus decision was made before these conversations were had. 

Did they put (what I would imagine) the terrible c-3po type equivalent first rounds of cyborgs on buses too?

 

I know I'm repeating myself, but I can't believe nobody looked at that, the way they framed it, and realised that equating non-sentient robots and black people isn't a good look. Does David Cage see someone place their laptop in a luggage compartment, before quietly shaking his head and asking "have we learnt nothing?"

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I can't really remember what bit leads from what but have you done the bit with the bear?

 

Or have you had the "twist" in the babysitter/ nanny character thread which then makes almost everything the guy that bought her and the kid herself completely nonsensical?

Not to mention puts a massive wrench in the humanity/ they're real people plot line? Even though it's intentional and contextually backed up by what the bloke in the shop says at the beginning (which was fishy in the first place).

 

Oh for a good KERBLAMMO 

 

I know I'm moaning about it but it's got such huge potential and I played it through a load. I might actually see what I have left to finish just to find out how further frustrating I can find it. 

 

The way other robots lead robots to their secret hideout is bloody comical if you think all of them had to go through that. 

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