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Thanks for posting that Tourist.

 

Tbh, I'm not really too sure what there is there to find odd? Fulham got beat and Roy's poor assistant was getting worried, wow big deal. As I remember Fulham did pretty well didn't they.. I'd certainly take anything Keane says with a huge dose of salt too. He plays to the stands too much imo.

 

Anyway, I'm reasonably happy with the team too, it's a very positive selection. I've got little hope (but hope none the less) we'll get far but it's tournament play, anything can happen. If we can get off the mark early, with the attacking players we've got, it could get interesting.

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10 minutes ago, Tourist said:

 

You don't find it slightly worrying that the manager of your national team a) has a tendency to panic when the chips are down, and b) finds it difficult to keep his panic to himself? 

 

I think the most successful managers are the ones who make things simplest for their players, and that includes removing any sort of doubts or anxieties that they might have about how to cope with difficult situations. I think England players have enough doubts and anxieties without needing to cope with the manager's. And I think Hodgson's career in the Premier League suggest that he has a tendency to lose the support of his players when the chips are down. 

 

Exactly like that Fulham team in that example you quoted and his WBA team. Both wilted and were relegated after smelling panic on him.

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6 minutes ago, gizmo1990 said:

Tbh, I'm not really too sure what there is there to find odd? Fulham got beat and Roy's poor assistant was getting worried, wow big deal. As I remember Fulham did pretty well didn't they.. I'd certainly take anything Keane says with a huge dose of salt too. He plays to the stands too much imo.

 

I think the rest of the book reads like it is a pretty honest account; I think compared to his account of other post-match meetings with other managers Hodgson comes across badly; and it is not just Roy's poor assistant, it was Roy himself who was panicking. Personally I think Fulham had pretty mixed fortunes under him.

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Roy is gone if we don't get out of the group.  If we go out to lower ranked competition in the quarters then he should also go.  

 

Anyone watching the Euro96Rewind on BBC?  Although England have played poorly in the first half, that's a blind of a team!

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On 01/06/2016 at 9:15 AM, Jolly said:

 

"If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards.  Checkmate."

 

On 01/06/2016 at 10:48 AM, Rev said:

think Dinobot might have just done a joke, but I've genuinely no idea. I like how he still can't spell Wilshere and just had a stray asterisk floating around though.

 

I'm glad two people spotted it. When you open with a Tony Harrison line, where else can you go.

 

Footballs will happen, Roy could become the next Bobby Robson. Or not.

 

Let's game on the soccers!

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Last night's performance confirmed everything I dislike about the 4-4-2 diamond. Yeah, you get Kane, Vardy, Rooney, and Alli on the pitch at the same time, but you waste the talents of all of them. Vardy and Kane were both too wide, unable to link up together. Rooney was playing as a deep centre forward with no-one in front of him. He's not really that kind of number ten - he's always played with genuine wingers, and he always wants to play the ball wide. All he's going to achieve by doing that is pushing the strikers wider and wider. Meanwhile, Alli is playing in one of those weird side-of-the-diamond positions, unable to influence the game, and probably a bit confused about what he is supposed to be doing.

 

The system does not work. It's just a fairly cowardly way of avoiding the issue of which players to drop. It's something England have done for years - play good players out of position, all shoehorned in to ensure that all the fan-favorite players are in the starting line-up.

 

Kane up front, Alli behind him. Vardy on the bench. Rooney only getting in the team as a deep midfielder, and only then if he's considered to be the best option in the position. Grow some balls and pick the team that might be unpopular, but doesn't waste the players we do have on the pitch, Roy.

 

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Well said feltmonkey, you're absolutely bang on there.

 

1 hour ago, feltmonkey said:

Kane up front, Alli behind him. Vardy on the bench. Rooney only getting in the team as a deep midfielder, and only then if he's considered to be the best option in the position. Grow some balls and pick the team that might be unpopular, but doesn't waste the players we do have on the pitch, Roy.

 

 

This is just so obvious, and I cannot understand why Roy can't see this.  I am really starting to think he really is a bad manager, or has no balls, or both.  I was looking at his record on wiki last night, and was very surprised at how he's never really stayed at a club for over 1-2 seasons, and have never won anything of big significance.  Assuming we stutter through to the quarters and go out, I was be shocked if he gets another contract.

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England always have to choose the best players, rather than the best team. I think theirs an element of too many people in this country, fans, media and heads of FA alike, that see those two things as one and the same and successive managers have done the same thing over and over again, it makes me wonder just how much influence the manager has over things and whether or not their hand is forced by having to appease other parties.

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After last night:

 

-------------------------------------------Hart--------------------------------------------

 

Walker---------------Biggie Smalling--------Gary "Tim" Cahill-----------------Rose

 

-------------------------Dier Wolf---------Smokin' Jack Wilshere---------------------

 

-------------Adam Nivea-------------Dele Alli------------Stirling----------------------

 

------------------------------------------Kane--------------------------------------------

 

Thought Lallana, Wilshere and Sterling all looked good.

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Not enough Rooney and Vardy shoe horned in to unfamiliar positions.

 

Vardy for Lallana

Rooney for Wilshire

 

Nailed it!

 

The narrow diamond from last night might work in Fifa but is there a team in the world that plays that formation effectively?

 

Edit: Actually Rooney for Alli then Alli for Wilshire. Now its nailed.

 

 

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To be honest, a midfield three of Dier, Alli, and Rooney wouldn't be too bad whichever one you put as number ten.

 

I would be very tempted to go with Timmo's team. I'd definitely have Bertrand over Rose though. Form is temporary, class is permanent, and I just feel that, despite his decent form, Rose is fundamentally a shit player.

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46 minutes ago, Steely said:

Not enough Rooney and Vardy shoe horned in to unfamiliar positions.

 

Vardy for Lallana

Rooney for Wilshire

 

Nailed it!

 

The narrow diamond from last night might work in Fifa but is there a team in the world that plays that formation effectively?

 

Edit: Actually Rooney for Alli then Alli for Wilshire. Now its nailed.

 

 

 

Juve used it most of last season and did well. Tevez/Morata up front, Pereyra behind and Pogba/Vidal in the central midfield. I've had a complete mental block about who their anchor was, but they have one.

 

I'd be very surprised if that wasn't a big influence on his thinking in the tournament proper. Tevez and Vardy are very similar, Kane and Morata have little in common but it probably doesn't matter, Pereyra and Alli kinda work as a comparison-ish, Dier is obviously the anchor. It's those other two slots though. Pogba and Vidal were massively important and for my money we've not got anyone that fills either role properly.

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12 minutes ago, feltmonkey said:

To be honest, a midfield three of Dier, Alli, and Rooney wouldn't be too bad whichever one you put as number ten.

 

I would be very tempted to go with Timmo's team. I'd definitely have Bertrand over Rose though. Form is temporary, class is permanent, and I just feel that, despite his decent form, Rose is fundamentally a shit player.

What!

 

Rose hasn't been shit for two seasons now and Bertrand is hardly world class himself.  Now if Luke Shaw was fit that would a whole different story, but at this present time Rose is the best we have and was a integral part of the best defence in the league last season.

 

I would also go with Timmos team but like we all have said you just know Roy is going to shoe horn Rooney and Vardy in the team at the expense of us having a decent chance of going far in the tournament.

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5 minutes ago, Rev said:

 

Juve used it most of last season and did well. Tevez/Morata up front, Pereyra behind and Pogba/Vidal in the central midfield. I've had a complete mental block about who their anchor was, but they have one.

 

I'd be very surprised if that wasn't a big influence on his thinking in the tournament proper. Tevez and Vardy are very similar, Kane and Morata have little in common but it probably doesn't matter, Pereyra and Alli kinda work as a comparison-ish, Dier is obviously the anchor. It's those other two slots though. Pogba and Vidal were massively important and for my money we've not got anyone that fills either role properly.

 

Khedira was the anchor (when he wasn't injured). Bayern played it on occasion too.

 

Last night didn't work for sure. But I do think we've looked at our best when playing the diamond in recent games - the obvious example being when we switched to it at 2-0 down vs Germany and came back to win 3-2.

 

What is clear from last night is that Rooney, Vardy and Kane on the pitch together wastes all 3. It's the first time we've seen it and their positioning just isn't right.

 

What the diamond does very well for us is solidify defence. Our full-backs are such assets going forward that we'd be crazy not to make the most of them. 

Having that central anchor in Dier who can drop between the centre-backs and allow them to cover the flanks is certainly the best we've performed.

 

Whenever we've played a 4-2-3-1, I think it really exposes smalling and Cahill. 

 

Now a 4-3-3... that could work.

 

 

 

 

 

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If you make Rooney to be Pogba and Wilshere to be Vidal you have ended up with all 3 on the pitch. We definitely need Dier locked in the anchor role regardless of everything else, the full backs will be hurtling forwards in every formation since we don't have any proper width in the squad.

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25 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

What!

 

Rose hasn't been shit for two seasons now and Bertrand is hardly world class himself.  Now if Luke Shaw was fit that would a whole different story, but at this present time Rose is the best we have and was a integral part of the best defence in the league last season.

 

I would also go with Timmos team but like we all have said you just know Roy is going to shoe horn Rooney and Vardy in the team at the expense of us having a decent chance of going far in the tournament.

 

Yeah. I'm not a massive fan of Rose, but "permanent class" and "Ryan Bertrand" doesn't seem quite right.

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Wouldn't have minded this as an alternative gung-ho formation to pull out:

 

 

-----------------------Dier--------------Wilshere------------------

 

---------------------------------Alli----------------------------------

 

Townsend/Antonio-----Kane/Vardy-------------Sterling-----

 

 

Alas we've decided to enter the tournament without a right winger.

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32 minutes ago, Timmo said:

 

Alas we've decided to enter the tournament without a right winger.

 

Which is a bit baffling. 

 

I understood some of the out of position concepts when we were (for ages) completely lacking left sided players, but after last night I think Townsend would have been a good call. 

 

To to be honest even if you are bending things out of shape you should be doing better than England did last night against 10. They looked like they really couldn't break them down. There will be games like that in the championships, loads of defenders packed together, and a great crosser is pretty much a must in those situations. Just a friendly, sure, but 1-0 was flattering.

 

There were some terrible passing/possession mistakes last night, amongst some strong defending. Nothing was made very clear.

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10 minutes ago, Shook said:

 

Which is a bit baffling. 

 

I understood some of the out of position concepts when we were (for ages) completely lacking left sided players, but after last night I think Townsend would have been a good call. 

 

To to be honest even if you are bending things out of shape you should be doing better than England did last night against 10. They looked like they really couldn't break them down. There will be games like that in the championships, loads of defenders packed together, and a great crosser is pretty much a must in those situations. Just a friendly, sure, but 1-0 was flattering.

 

There were some terrible passing/possession mistakes last night, amongst some strong defending. Nothing was made very clear.

 

To be honest, for me a pre-tournament friendly that ends with a clean sheet and no significant injuries is all you're aiming for.

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10 minutes ago, Rev said:

 

To be honest, for me a pre-tournament friendly that ends with a clean sheet and no significant injuries is all you're aiming for.

 

Yeah. I get caught up in historical England auto-negativity when I see them play like that though. 

 

Really shouldn't, but still with a team with such potential (and it is) I'd love to see some consistent quality. 

 

I suppose you could argue that in terms of results that's actually what they have been doing for a couple of years now. Hart's developed into a great stopper, I think he will be very handy when it comes to penalties. 

 

Fuck it, who knows? It's international football and there'll be lucky/unlucky teams, terrible refereeing and loads of cheating. 

 

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3 hours ago, Timmo said:

After last night:

 

-------------------------------------------Hart--------------------------------------------

 

Walker---------------Biggie Smalling--------Gary "Tim" Cahill-----------------Rose

 

-------------------------Dier Wolf---------Smokin' Jack Wilshere---------------------

 

-------------Adam Nivea-------------Dele Alli------------Stirling----------------------

 

------------------------------------------Kane--------------------------------------------

 

Thought Lallana, Wilshere and Sterling all looked good.

 

Yeah I'd go for this too, and reading some other line ups it seems people are also leaning towards it, it seems the most logical. I don't think anyone saw Hodgson taking both Sturridge and Rashford (well I didn't) because I didn't think he'd not take Townsend, but it gave an indication that he'd play two up front, and I guess he was hoping this game, where for the first time Kane, Vardy and Rooney played together that everything would click, because with no more friendlies left it'd have to. Agree with everything feltmonkey said, a lot of people are in agreement with what didn't work, it's funny that Hodgson is insisting in playing all 3 attackers at once rather than having them all compete for just one spot, I'd rather play one with them knowing if they're not playing out of their skin they're being replaced in the second half.

 

I really like Lallana, seems like because he never scores despite being in good positions people can question what he brings, but he's always been one of England's brightest players for me, with a natural tendency to twist and turn, the best first touch in the squad, coming off the back of a season of being maybe the most relentless runner under Klopp he at least won't coast. Can't believe Hodgson didn't take Townsend, apparently Neville is a big fan and argued for a genuine winger and someone different. Hodgson must be regretting that now, if he returns to only one up front they won't all be used. England will be out before they've all had playing time.

 

Kind of baffling that Rooney continues to be indulged, it's usually for players who can conjure something from nothing, but he's more in the mould of Milner, and should be viewed as such by now, someone who will be needed if there's injuries and can fill a variety of different roles at maybe a 6/10 level.

 

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Oof, Rooney's being compared to Milner now. Harsh on a guy with over 50 international goals, but that's where we are with him now, I suppose.

 

I defer to Charliemouse about Rose. You've seen more of him than me. I'm still going on my early impressions of him when he was truly awful. I wasn't saying Bertrand has permanent class, incidentally, it was just an odd way of saying that in my eyes Rose will always be sort of hapless.

 

Talking of permanent class, the key to this tournament is the Rooney question. Everyone has accepted as a truth the idea that he is a spent force, but I'm not so sure. For much of the season he was hamstrung by Van Gaal's very restrictive instructions. You can see how, in the first half of the season, he was trying to play to his manager's instructions, and trying to be a different player to the one he actually is. LVG wants strikers to lay the ball off and get in the box, and to take up specific positions between the centre-backs. They are not allowed to get involved in the build-up. A Wayne Rooney who isn't allowed to drop deep and do what he does isn't really any Wayne Rooney at all. At a certain point last season it became obvious that either LVG had relaxed this position, or perhaps Rooney took it on himself to play his natural game, and he looked completely different, much more like the old Rooney. It was the run after his backheeled goal against Swansea, until he got injured and Rashford emerged. Rooney's good form continued on his return from injury, albeit playing in midfield, until the end of the season.

 

He isn't the best player in the squad any more, certainly not. But he is the guy with the best combination of ability and experience. You can see why Roy Hodgson would pick him. He's disrupting the balance of the team though. If we're going 4-4-2 diamond then perhaps he plays up front with Kane. That would be harsh on Vardy. I wouldn't cast him in the Pogba role.

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Wayne Rooney's 50 goals. He's been the first name on the team sheet since 2004. 12 years. His goal scoring supremacy is a result of him always being there rather than him being a good striker for England. How many in a tournament?

 

I realise that arguing that England's highest goal scorer of all time hasn't been a good striker for England is problematic but that's where we are!

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I am the opposite of going to this if that helps? Leaving Paris for London on Friday.... Looking forward to watching literally every match in a pub in Lindon though. WHO IS WITH MR?  And when I say Mr I mean me obviously. Fucking phone 

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