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Star Wars: The Last Jedi


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1 hour ago, macosx said:

 

Its more probably a person playing an actor  you love as a character becoming the character you love, hitting story beats that you didn’t really need to know.

Yes, there are multiple reasons. If TLJ had hit home like Infinity War did, though, there would’ve been a halo effect around Solo. I think Ant-Man & The Wasp’s box office will benefit greatly from how well BP and IW were received. 

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most likely that its just fatigue with the franchise. In the same way the SW EU quickly became a sea of garbage - so are these films. 

 

The biggest mistake Disney made with SW is proceeding with no clear plan where any of it was heading - and just pumping out as much content as possible.

 

the marvel universe feels like there is a strong overarching narrative at work. As should SW. Instead what we have is a random mess of big budget fanfic that contradicts and conflicts and has no clear direction. We are 2/3 of the way through a new SW trilogy. And what was the narrative point of any of it? Its a mess. 

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That seems to have been JJ's fault by all intents and purposes, just him setting up mystery boxes rather than intentionally making the first in a trilogy.

 

I thought the message of tlj was at least pretty good and coherent, whereas the prequels had much less of a narrative message or anything of the sort.

 

So at least they've got better :)

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Johnson was so disgusted by the cul de sac that was TFA that he set himself a task to undo as much as he possibly could. Like @Dirty Harry Potter says, that's a staggering lack of planning. Letting Rian do whatever he wants, whilst simultaneously hamstringing (then firing) the likes of Lord and Miller suggests rudderlessness.

 

Would anyone really mind if the pace of release slowed down, if the quality improved? I'd happily wait three years or longer if it meant getting a Ragnarok or Infinity War equivalent at the end of it. The approach where Disney just pump these things out is short termism in the extreme.

 

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As much as Marvel excell in world building, they have had their fair share of misteps, such as Ironman 2 and Thor 2.

 

I think it's fine to have different directors who have slightly different visions for the individual movies but it seems weird that they picked directors who have such juxaposing ideas on where the franchaise should go.

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3 hours ago, b00dles said:

That seems to have been JJ's fault by all intents and purposes, just him setting up mystery boxes rather than intentionally making the first in a trilogy.

 

I thought the message of tlj was at least pretty good and coherent, whereas the prequels had much less of a narrative message or anything of the sort.

 

So at least they've got better :)

 

The difference between the new stuff and the prequels is pretty clear.

 

The prequels had interesting stories that were poorly executed. The new stuff has poor stories that are executed well.

 

And at some point someone will make a SW story that is both interesting and well executed.

 

But by the looks of it, not for a while.

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5 hours ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

n the same way the SW EU quickly became a sea of garbage - so are these films.

They reined the EU in, after the explosion of tat. But even amongst all the earlier absurd works, there's the odd gem. The origin story (AC Crispin) is a great trilogy of books. The last few years, leading up to the buy-out, was way more coordinated by LucasFilm.

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2 hours ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

 

The difference between the new stuff and the prequels is pretty clear.

 

The prequels had interesting stories that were poorly executed. The new stuff has poor stories that are executed well.

 

And at some point someone will make a SW story that is both interesting and well executed.

 

But by the looks of it, not for a while.

Trade disputes are always interesting.

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18 hours ago, TehStu said:

My kids love the new Star Wars films, by the way. Maybe it's not necessarily about 40 year olds like me and thee.

 

Well they clearly don't love them enough to pester you to buy all the toys :P It's older people apparently doing most of the heavy lifting on the merchandise front at present and if they get disenchanted, a huge pillar of Neu-Disney starts to look a bit less solid.

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This video perfectly articulates how I feel about The Last Jedi. The Kylo Ren arc, including Luke/Rey, is absolutely some of my favourite Star Wars stuff ever, and a cut above your usually blockbuster fare. I can see myself coming back to TLJ more than the others for this alone.

 

This makes the Finn arc all the more disappointing, which he also highlights in this video. Very odd they cut the scene about him not wanting to join the resistance, as that would have given a little more weight to his storyline.

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On 30 May 2018 at 13:33, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

 

The difference between the new stuff and the prequels is pretty clear.

 

The prequels had interesting stories that were poorly executed. The new stuff has poor stories that are executed well.

 

And at some point someone will make a SW story that is both interesting and well executed.

 

But by the looks of it, not for a while.

Nail on the head.

As for the third sentence, they did. It ended in 1983.

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5 minutes ago, Exidor said:

So could someone just quickly summarise the interesting stories that the prequels had? It's a long time since I saw them and you're not going to trick me into watching that shit again.

 

Darth Maul and the two good Jedi have a dance-off.

 

Anakin and Padme have a very strange romp in the meadow, whilst Ben's off to Ikea to watch the clones get created.

 

Palpatine gets electrocuted, and becomes what I can only assume is an Opera singer, whilst Anakin becomes Herman Munster.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Exidor said:

So could someone just quickly summarise the interesting stories that the prequels had? It's a long time since I saw them and you're not going to trick me into watching that shit again.

 

The Ancient Religious Space Police charged with keeping the peace have grown complacent in maintaining the status quo, and fixed in their dogma. Because of this, they fail to notice that they are being manipulated by an evil politician, who aims to corrupt an idealistic and lovesick freed slave into becoming the most iconic villain in all of popular fiction.

 

The ingredients are there, now if they can only nail the execution...

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Idealistic freed slave that also murdered loads of kids before he really got lovesick and worried about her death.

 

Who also made c-3p0 and thinks spinning is always good.

 

No suggestion that the emperor wanted to turn him into Darth Vader, or why, other than he does, even though he wants Luke to kill him in rotj to join the dark side. 

 

It's all written by the same person somehow.

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I'm sure this won't  win over any of the people convinced this is a shit movie for reasons that somehow now include that it has a worse story than the prequels but here's another good video essay from generally a pretty good channel all round.

 

He does also make the valid point  I took a dig at there that you can still dislike a film but recognise that it does some bits well.

 

 

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On 02/06/2018 at 11:44, Paulando said:

 

This video perfectly articulates how I feel about The Last Jedi. The Kylo Ren arc, including Luke/Rey, is absolutely some of my favourite Star Wars stuff ever, and a cut above your usually blockbuster fare. I can see myself coming back to TLJ more than the others for this alone.

 

This makes the Finn arc all the more disappointing, which he also highlights in this video. Very odd they cut the scene about him not wanting to join the resistance, as that would have given a little more weight to his storyline.

 

This is a great video with an interesting take on it — effectively trying to show two character arcs that are at odds with one another. 

Thing is though, that I can not agree that Finn’s arc isn’t satisfying or convincingly portrayed. 

The point about the cut scene where Finn expresses his dissolutionment with it all shouldn’t of been cut, I disagree with. The first scene with Rose sets all of this obviously up and that’s why the scene was cut. It doesn’t need further explanation. 

Also, the beats of Finn going to Canto Bight and loving it, then shown DJ’s involvement and ambiguity in regards to the conflict to DJ’s betrayal are all obviously pushing Finn to make up his mind to be part of the Resistance. I thought it was all excellently handled. 

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11 hours ago, b00dles said:

I'm sure this won't  win over any of the people convinced this is a shit movie for reasons that somehow now include that it has a worse story than the prequels but here's another good video essay from generally a pretty good channel all round.

 

He does also make the valid point  I took a dig at there that you can still dislike a film but recognise that it does some bits well.

 

 

And from the other side, with regards to the oddly placed comedy. Nothing wrong with a bit of comedic levity but I agree with this guy, and it helps he doesn't come across as a ranting idiot (besides the click bait thumbnail). He shows how it was in places where it didn't fit and spoiled the scene.

 

 

Seems a pretty level headed appraisal. 

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On 30/05/2018 at 09:50, Treble said:

Johnson was so disgusted by the cul de sac that was TFA that he set himself a task to undo as much as he possibly could. Like @Dirty Harry Potter says, that's a staggering lack of planning. Letting Rian do whatever he wants, whilst simultaneously hamstringing (then firing) the likes of Lord and Miller suggests rudderlessness.

 

Would anyone really mind if the pace of release slowed down, if the quality improved? I'd happily wait three years or longer if it meant getting a Ragnarok or Infinity War equivalent at the end of it. The approach where Disney just pump these things out is short termism in the extreme.

 

Whilst I totally agree, Marvel are stepping the pace up if anything, and pretty much all of them at this point are at worst good movies. We’re getting three movies a year out of them at the moment, with no talk of Marvel fatigue. I guess that feeds into what you and @Dirty Harry Potter say; with proper planning of an overall endpoint, the Marvel films all just slot in. I do find it difficult to believe that Lucasfilm started a trilogy without that sort of planning, and even accounting for JJ perhaps unexpectedly bailing on directing the middle film, Kennedy (and I think JJ himself) got Rian Johnson in early and approved his ideas. 

 

Whilst I liked TLJ, and in a way admire Johnson for staying true to his ideas, I’m quite happy to put my fanboy hat on and see it from the other side of the argument and say Johnson perhaps could have thrown a bone to the fans and followed perhaps one of the trails JJ had signposted, and that dismissing all of them was deliberately obtuse to force the overall theme that in the grand scheme of things you need to look forward, and none of those trails matter.

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The impression I got from Last Jedi was that Johnsson hammered two films worth of story arcs in to one movie to try and finish his take on the new trilogy leaving. Rey tricking Snoke would have worked better if you'd seen more of Snoke's hubris and arrogance over two movies to sell his delusion and over confidence. The slow space chase between the rebellion and the persuing first order would have made a killer Empire style cliff hanger and opening to a third movie. Finn and Rose's romance would have been more believable with time to grow over two movies, and Rose saving Finn by crashing their speeders would've had a bigger impact. Benicio Del Toros character would have made an excellent foil for the heroes spread over two movies. That's just off the top of my head.

 

Of course it's easy for me to sit on my arse playing back seat screenwriter, director and editor and rearrange the pieces that some one else came up with after the fact, without studio interference, without any of the pressure...

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2 hours ago, Jammy said:

Whilst I totally agree, Marvel are stepping the pace up if anything, and pretty much all of them at this point are at worst good movies. We’re getting three movies a year out of them at the moment, with no talk of Marvel fatigue. 

 

I'd say some of them are pretty dull TBH.  Some are great, but they're not consistently good and I do think there are far too many to keep track of.  I don't have that problem with Star Wars - I've really enjoyed all the new ones. 

 

I obviously can't speak for others, but I hope some of the fatigue they are starting to feel with Star Wars fades when Lucasfilm moves away from the current 'Skywalker' time period, and explore a completely new saga with new heroes/villains/creatures/planets etc.

 

There's so much potential and I hope that the different projects confirmed by different film makers can unlock some of that potential. 

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