Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[Unofficial Who]

8 hours ago, Joystick Chevron said:

Spare yourself, comrade. Read this:

 

And know that it would have made more sense than anything in the actual film.

 

Can you block the spoiler for everyone else please? Cheers.

 

edit: if it’s not already clear by my recent posts in this thread I’m not only a prick but pretty slow on the uptake as well.

[Dirty Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, CarloOos said:

Quite the opposite I’d say, after the absolute mess of TROS and since RJ’s star is on the rise again. I suspect they’ll quietly give him that trilogy back, if he’s willing to take it.

 

Absolutely no chance.

[Fierce Poodle]

Do you work for Disney?

[Dirty Harry Potter]

No, just basic common sense.

 

Getting back the director that split your "sure thing" franchise in two - and then trolled and alienated a lot of your fans - is not going make Disney share holders very happy. And for good or bad they ultimately run the show.

 

I doubt Rian would even want to do it (unless he enjoys having lots of detractors).

 

 

[K]

Weird how the success or failure of every Star Wars film is now entirely down to Rian Johnson. Like, if Solo and Rise of Skywalker underperform, then that’s nothing to do with JJ Abrams or Ron Howard, it’s all a direct result of the Last Jedi. Thing is, it all feels one way as well, so that if Rise of Skywalker absolutely obliterates the other films at the box office, it’ll be down to JJ Abrams fixing Johnson’s mess, and if Rise of Skywalker does badly, it’ll thanks to dopey old Rian Johnson and the scorched earth he left behind him. When they bring the Star Wars films back in a few years, it’ll still be his fault if they fail. I’m surprised no-one’s tried to pin Maclunkey on him yet. He’s become an all-purpose scapegoat for the perceived shortcomings of a film franchise, regardless of whether he has any involvement in the specifics. 

 

 

[Fierce Poodle]

44 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

No, just basic common sense.

 

Getting back the director that split your "sure thing" franchise in two - and then trolled and alienated a lot of your fans - is not going make Disney share holders very happy. And for good or bad they ultimately run the show.

 

I doubt Rian would even want to do it (unless he enjoys having lots of detractors).

 

 

How did RJ “troll” the fans exactly? He made the film he wanted in good faith, has received a shit load of highly personal abuse for it online, yet still behaved in a polite, dignified way throughout. He is 10x the director JJ will ever be, as Knives Out proves.

[probotector]

Might give it another watch tonight if it’s back on Netflix.

 

If only we could cut out all the Poe scenes.

 

One thing I will say, it’s a very very good looking film.

[Ork1927]

4 hours ago, NickC said:

 

This personalisation and villification of Rian Johnson (and others) over Star Wars is toxic. Blaming individuals, continuing a relentless online campaign against them and feeding into it is really messed up.

 

It's a movie some people don't like. It's cool if people don't like it and want to talk about that, but at some point people need to check themselves and move on. RJ and others should be able to move on with their lives. It's just a movie. Speculating on what's next for their shaming is just fanning the flames further.

 

Ahmed Best got this treatment and attempted suicide over toxic fandom. You and others need to stop this.

 

Also it is ludicrous to think that Disney just let a director who had made three films (none of which were box office hits that would give him any clout) do whatever he wanted with their massive flagship franchise without any oversight of the script/storyline/portrayal of the characters nor any pushback once the film was finished.

 

I'm still not clear what crimes he commited anyway: Is this the list of gripes?

 

Made Luke grumpy and flawed then killed him off?

Made Rey not have parents related to anyone in the original films?

Made Finn have an adventure with a new character which could be a possible love interest.

Killed the mysterious Snoke who appeared as a big hologram in the first film that everyone thought looked a bit sh*t in possibly the best scene in the new trilogy?

Decided Leia can fly?

 

I'm ignoring stuff like Horse CGI Casino planet tyoe stuff as while that is just a bad scene -  I assume that isn't on the list of why some people think he ruined Star Wars.

[probotector]

The biggest crime Rian committed was getting Lord and Miller sacked.

[Sarlaccfood]

5 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

The weans just made me play the bit where Snoke cracks Hux's face of the floor about twelve times. Gutting themselves. For being three and four they have seriously sick senses of humour.

The stuntman broke his nose in the floor when they did that scene apparently.

[Hanzo the Razor]

1 hour ago, Sarlaccfood said:

The stuntman broke his nose in the floor when they did that scene apparently.

 

Must be why they like it so much!

[sandman]

On 2 September 2018 at 12:03, kensei said:

 

"Tapping into" force powers is fine. "Mastering everything easily", less so. 

 

Yoda is definitely training Luke. The rock lifting might be to help connect Luke to the Force, but that's because it's established its fucking hard to connect to the Force. Like learning a martial art of attaining enlightenment, which is the sort mystic oriental shtick it's going for. 

 

Secondly, he's training him because without the correct discipline, you get ensnared in the Dark Side, and fuck yourself and everyone else up. The Force used to be a bit dangerous and a bit scary. You can float rocks and mind control but there's this constant background risk of being overwhelmed with darkness. It's part of what makes it work and it's just been ripped out. 

 

Third we've already had it established that Anakin is Space Jesus, and is son is super duper powerful too. What's Rey, the end of the world?

Hang on a minute. Don't they say in the prequels that the Sith haven't been seen for centuries. If that's so then the chance of turning to the dark side must be infinitesimally small. Just some food for thought. I agree that the Jedi were all about control of force sensitive people more than anything else 

[JPL]

4 hours ago, K said:

Weird how the success or failure of every Star Wars film is now entirely down to Rian Johnson.

According to who exactly? I put it firmly at the feet of the Disney execs for rushing into this new trilogy without having it properly planned out. Even then, it could have worked out brilliantly, but unfortunately they picked two directors who wanted to pull in different directions, which has left this trilogy feeling pretty disjointed.

 

I’ve no doubt they’ll learn from it though and we’ll get a more cohesive trilogy next time.

[ZOK]

This page makes for some weird reading, that’s for sure.

[gone fishin]

12 hours ago, Ork1927 said:

 

 

I'm still not clear what crimes he commited anyway: Is this the list of gripes?

 

Made Luke grumpy and flawed then killed him off?

Made Rey not have parents related to anyone in the original films?

Made Finn have an adventure with a new character which could be a possible love interest.

Killed the mysterious Snoke who appeared as a big hologram in the first film that everyone thought looked a bit sh*t in possibly the best scene in the new trilogy?

Decided Leia can fly?

 

I think the issue is more to do with those minor points derailed the story (in the second part of a trilogy) to the point where they had to be completely re-written or ignored in order to make a satisfying conclusion in the final part of the trilogy. That’s made a lot of the second film pretty much redundant now. 

 

One of the biggest gripes is that Rise of Skywalker is too fast paced, has far too much “stuff” happening (certainly at the start) and it’s clear that’s due to the second film and correcting the perceived issues you’ve mentioned. I posted this in the Rise of Skywalker thread, but The Last Jedi now feels like episode 7.5 and Skywalker is a compressed episode 8 and 9.

 

I think there could be a great edit of some of The Last Jedi and the first 30 minutes or so of Rise of Skywalker, mind you. 
 

I also agree with those that not just the Disney execs are to blame, but particularly JJ Abrams as he was still technically an “Executive Producer” on The Last Jedi, you would have thought he would have had some input on the story. Maybe it’s just a reflection of how much Bad Robot company  really does put into a film for the countless producer credits they get.

 

 

[Delargey]

Either JJA should have told RJ that

 

Rey as a Palpatine before Last Jedi or RJ should have told JJA how the third act would play out with out a 'big bad' villain.

 

Sorry - Rise of Skywalker ref.

[K]

Could people keep the unmarked spoilers for Rise of Skywalker out of this thread please?

[Don Rosco]

 

[Pob]

Thanks for picking out a decent Last Jedi video amongst the sea of similar thumbnails in my YouTube recommendations @Don Rosco!

 

He makes some interesting points about the prequels. Even though I'm plenty old enough to remember the pre-Prequel era, when the Clone Wars existed only in my imagination in way that couldn't be matched by a screen adaptation, I too have come to accept the prequel lore as a key part of Star Wars for the exact reasons he mentions. Spin-offs, toys, games, and the passing of time. The moment-to-moment execution was exceedingly poor but I now really like the overarching story, and think I'm now ready to see more stories in the era of the Galactic Republic.

 

I'd also love to see the idea of Jedi being 'good' and the Sith 'evil' challenged further in a movie trilogy or TV series set thousands of years in the past, when the two sides were in constant conflict, or perhaps when the Sith first split away from the Jedi. There's lots of potential there, and plenty of real-world relevance. 

 

Certainly I'm more interested in that than whatever comes after The Rise of Skywalker. But, in time, and with the same drip-feed of decent expanded universe material such as The Mandalorian I expect I'll feel the same about the sequel era. Good writers can (and probably have) expand fully on how the remains of the Empire evolved into The First Order, or what Palpatine was doing for 35 years and where exactly that Sith fleet came from, in a way that the films glossed over. The Expanded Universe is great for papering over plot holes.

 

I've definitely come round to the idea that The Last Jedi is the beating heart at the centre of the new trilogy, just like TESB before it. 

[Unofficial Who]

This made me sad to read but it will confirm the views of many.

 

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/star-wars-novelist-alan-dean-foster-episode-ix-treatment-retcon-the-last-jedi-terrible-film/?

 

Quote

Novelist Alan Dean Foster wrote a treatment for Star Wars: Episode IX that the prolific author says would have retconned "as much as possible" from Star Wars: The Last Jedi, which Foster calls a "terrible film" and a "terrible Star Wars movie." Foster, who penned the novel adaptations for creator George Lucas' original Star Wars and the J.J. Abrams-directed The Force Awakens, says he "hated" writer-director Rian Johnson's middle installment preceding what would become Abrams' Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. In Foster's unused treatment for Episode IX, the author attempted to correct or explain many of the "silly things" in Episode VIII of Disney-Lucasfilm's Star Wars sequel trilogy:

"Episode VIII was out, it was a done deal. And I went and saw it, and I thought it was a terrible film. I thought it was a terrible Star Wars movie, and there's no need to go into why because every fan already has," Foster told Midnight's Edge. "I thought, 'How can this be retconned? How can we fix as much as possible from Episode VIII in a proposed Episode IX?' And I wrote a partial treatment for that, attempting in that storyline to explain a lot of the really silly things that happened in Episode VIII."

Foster's media representative was unable to get the treatment looked at by Disney because The Rise of Skywalker had already entered into production. "I did that for the fans," Foster said. "I never expected Disney to do anything with that."

 

(On an unrelated note Disney needs to do the right thing and pay Foster the royalties they owe him for his novelisations.)

[Mogster]

That was pretty sad. Is that story really just "Foster hated TLJ so much that he wrote some fan-fiction to retcon it, but Disney wasn't interested."?

[IcEBuRN]

I wonder why he got dicked on. We all know rise of skywalker was shit, because JJ can't really do story without mystery boxes. But, he was left with a steaming pile of shit from Ruin Johnson in the last jedi. Not a great combo.

 

I was gonna say it MUST have been better, but cmon, it can't of been much worse?

[K]

Given that Alan Dean Foster's literary skills extend to typing out someone elses' script to a tight deadline while not using any long words, I'm not hugely surprised that Disney politely declined to read his fannish ramblings and filed them in the recycling.

[Unofficial Who]

6 minutes ago, K said:

Given that Alan Dean Foster's literary skills extend to typing out someone elses' script to a tight deadline while not using any long words, I'm not hugely surprised that Disney politely declined to read his fannish ramblings and filed them in the recycling.

 

That's a little mean about his skills. I've heard his original works are pretty good and I'm in debt to him and other "novel based on the movie" adapters for allowing a way into pop culture conversations when I was too poor to go to the movies myself. A trip to the library and I had at least some idea what the other kids were going on about at lunch.

[Delargey]

His treatment included Rey getting a robot brain, which explains why she is so quick at learning Jedi skills and allowed her to understand droids, Rose and Finn fighting a bunch of the emporers clones and Luke's last words being "Aunt Buru" so I don't think we missed anything.

[K]

4 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

That's a little mean about his skills. I've heard his original works are pretty good and I'm in debt to him and other "novel based on the movie" adapters for allowing a way into pop culture conversations when I was too poor to go to the movies myself. A trip to the library and I had at least some idea what the other kids were going on about at lunch.

 

I enjoyed his Alien film novelisations when I was too young to watch the films so it's probably a bit mean, but at the same time  it’s very uncool and unprofessional to publicly slag off Rian Johnson’s work to the extent that he did. And what did he expect Disney's reaction to be? Hey guys, you really fucked up that last Star Wars film, it was absolutely terrible. Fortunately, I, Alan Dead Foster, the author of the novelisation of Krull, have graciously decided to save you from your own incompetence.

[Unofficial Who]

32 minutes ago, K said:

 

I enjoyed his Alien film novelisations when I was too young to watch the films so it's probably a bit mean, but at the same time what did he expect Disney's reaction to be? Hey guys, you really fucked up that last Star Wars film, it was absolutely terrible. Fortunately, I, Alan Dead Foster, the author of the novelisation of Krull, have graciously decided to save you from your own incompetence.

 

I remember David Brin doing much the same thing around the time of Attack of the Clones.

[Waggo]

Disney probably just want people to forget about both TLJ and ROSW as quickly as possible, hence the lack of any engagement.

[K]

The Last Jedi is good. 

[SM47]

2 hours ago, Delargey said:

His treatment included Rey getting a robot brain, which explains why she is so quick at learning Jedi skills and allowed her to understand droids, Rose and Finn fighting a bunch of the emporers clones and Luke's last words being "Aunt Buru" so I don't think we missed anything.

 

Is this available online anywhere? Cos it sounds hilarious