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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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2 hours ago, Commander Jameson said:

 

Didn't we actually get that in AOTC with Jango bumping his head on the Slave 1 door, implying that the stormtrooper clones were genetically clumsy?

 

Luckily, this most horrible of ideas from the prequels was avoided or ‘retconed’ if you will by The Clone Wars I think. 

Most of the Clones died out due to accelerated aging, replaced by conscripts. 

Im glad they didn’t sought to replace all the Stotmtrooper voices in the OT with the voice of that Australian guy like they did with Boba Fett. 

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Just got back.  It was crazily uneven. I'm amazed my kids sat through it all (especially the six year old) as it was really long.

 

I was reflecting that it must be close to impossible to make a Star Wars movie these days, the audience is too broad and want drastically different things.  Old bastards like us probably want something a bit more serious, kids want something faster and a bit more fun.

 

I don't want to be po(e) faced about it all, but one part of it was close to all time trilogy lows (that casino gaff was a right load of old shite, right down there with the rathtars from TFA).

 

I know that time compression is a thing in these movies, but it didn't really feel like Ray and Luke were given enough time together and I think the film needed that more than it needed Ray and Kylo.

 

The little nods were lovely though; the sunken X-wing and the Jedi kid at the end with the broom were really nicely done.  I think I'll enjoy ALL the sword fighting sequences again.

 

I think it's all over the place and like Empire was "technically better" than Star Wars, I think I should prefer TLJ over TFA.  But I don't. I prefer TFA.

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i watched this yesterday. and im so conflicted. there were plenty of issues from, stupid shit, to tone, to plot and consistency, but on the other hand it was everything star wars should be, and i enjoyed it.

 

It is a great modern star wars story. it's just no longer *my* star wars. the feelings i had walking out of the cinema, down the path to the car began with happiness, and by the end of it, i felt like i'd just broken up with a friend.

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41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why?

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What have we seen him do to suggest he is all that powerful? Aren’t you just taking him at his own word? It’s not like he had a lot of competition. 

 

Why does he need to be so super to gain that title? Look who Supreme Leader of the US is right now.

 

 

Well I'm going off what was mentioned before the film was released, he waas meant to be more powerful than Vader and the Emperor. With some evidence being shown in the film:

 

Snoke was reading Kylo's mind this whole time, so he could have known about growing resentment. In fact, he seemed to make Kylo resent him on purpose. "Take off that ridiculous mask." He has him kill Han. He may have precipitated the entire episode with Luke contemplating killing Ben, creating this father figure distrust.

 

Snoke appears to be more powerful than Sidious. Kylo Ren and Rey were like rag dolls to Snoke, and Kylo Ren has the power to stop a blaster bolt in midair with the force - Kylo and Rey seem to be equals. To many, this makes his sudden death conspicuously of out of place and thematically weak for how powerful his character is.

 

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I don't see a huge problem with what happened in that scene, given past history.

 

Spoiler

We've seen in Jedi that an all-powerful user of the Dark Side can be distracted.

 

Snoke may or may not be as powerful as The Emperor, but he still suffers from that same arrogance.

 

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2 hours ago, Commander Jameson said:

 

Didn't we actually get that in AOTC with Jango bumping his head on the Slave 1 door, implying that the stormtrooper clones were genetically clumsy?

tenor.gif

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1 hour ago, Nicky said:

i watched this yesterday. and im so conflicted. there were plenty of issues from, stupid shit, to tone, to plot and consistency, but on the other hand it was everything star wars should be, and i enjoyed it.

 

It is a great modern star wars story. it's just no longer *my* star wars. the feelings i had walking out of the cinema, down the path to the car began with happiness, and by the end of it, i felt like i'd just broken up with a friend.

 

It's weird, in some ways I feel like this film is almost trying to make that a point. It's all about letting go of the past

to the point of being heavy handed with Yoda destroying the literal books of lore when Luke hesitates.

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Man, those ‘ancient’ Jedi books looked shitty. It was like someone had knocked up the covers with fymo and poster paint ten minutes before filming.

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41 minutes ago, ZOK said:

Man, those ‘ancient’ Jedi books looked shitty. It was like someone had knocked up the covers with fymo and poster paint ten minutes before filming.

did you  notice finn rummaging through the drawers in the falcon and seeing more of those exact same books that were supposedly burned?

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12 minutes ago, Nicky said:

 

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did you  notice finn rummaging through the drawers in the falcon and seeing more of those exact same books that were supposedly burned?

 

Yeah they were the same I wouldn't be surprised if they were gifted to her

 

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I watched Rogue One again last night (mmmm space battles) and have to admit that I'm a shallow old fanboy trapped in the nostalgia of my childhood, with the original Star Wars as the sweet spot and the further away from that the less interested I become. It happened with the prequels and it's happening again with the direction of this new trilogy. Sad to think I'm now looking forward to Solo more than Epi ix, but there it is. 

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I watched this again yesterday and I figured out something that I was questioning on my first watch.

 

I originally wondered why...

 

Spoiler

The Resistance transport ships couldn't hide in front of the cruiser and let the cruiser take the fire. But I realised this time that the arcing shots were going around the cruiser.

 

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arguing that "laser" battery shots can't arc is futile when you are in a universe where the "lasers" aren't lasers anyway.

 

The weapons are "blasters" or "cannons" of various types - and we don't know the physics of how they work because they have been made up by writers :D

 

I mean look at the stun setting that fires circles what is that about :D

 

 

 

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I'm probably alone in thinking this, but Domhnall Gleeson/General Hux is by far my favourite character in these new films. Love the ham, and it became cemented in The Last Jedi when in the opening scenes it struck me that he's effectively an intergalactic Commissioner William Regal. 

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I thought Hux was rubbish in TFA.  He didn't ham nearly far enough and was pretty bland.  Much better ham quotient in TLJ (and Snoke made a point of why he kept him around)

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3 hours ago, Glasgowchivas said:

 

I'm sure we've discussed it already up thread but when 

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Luke pauses in burning down the tree with the books inside and then Yoda shows up and does it for him before booping him on the head, he tells Luke something like "Don't worry about the books, she already has all the knowledge she needs." which Luke takes as a reflection on Rey's inate wisdom and pureness of heart but we later see is actually down to Yoda knowing she's already swiped the books, being fed up of Luke's bullshit. He does love to talk in riddles, the little green shit.

 

 

Somehow I missed this. Yoda really is the biggest troll in the universe.

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2 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

One thing I really didn't like about the movie.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Maz is a union buster? Please say it ain't so!

 

Spoiler

You can hear a Hutt laugh at the start of the call, so I assumed “union negotiations” was a euphemism for “the mob trying to strongarm some money out of her”, rather than Maz’s glass collectors asking for a pay rise  

 

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Having avoided all media prior to watching this (apart from recklessly choosing to read the comments on Rockstar Games’ Facebook page, which helpfully revealed that 

Spoiler

 Luke dies)

 

I’m not sure why the hardcore Star Wars fanbase hate this film so much. I checked the IMDb page for the film to read the tedious trivia, and every user review seemed to give it 1/10. Why are so

many toys being flung at such velocity from so many prams?

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there's a billion youtube video's from fans that explain their grievances with the movie, and if you skim off the wankingragery some of them have good points. 

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10 hours ago, Clipper said:

arguing that "laser" battery shots can't arc is futile when you are in a universe where the "lasers" aren't lasers anyway.

 

The weapons are "blasters" or "cannons" of various types - and we don't know the physics of how they work because they have been made up by writers :D

 

I mean look at the stun setting that fires circles what is that about :D

 

 

 

Id like to know what a lightsabre feels like when you swing it. Does feel like holding a cricket/baseball bat? Or a water bottle? I assume the "blade" has no mass? 

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Whilst I think the film has many flaws in terms of pacing and plotting, thematically I loved it.

 

Moviebob absolutely NAILS it, as always.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, barkbat said:

This is what happened initially with the prequels. The people who had major concerns with Phantom Menace et al were labelled as nerd raging killjoys who didn't understand they were no longer the target audience. Obviously some people on the internet are going to be irrational, it's the internet, but it's extremely condescending and ironically, childish, to defend a film by lumping all the people who don't like it into one homogeneous tantrum. The criticisms on this thread are certainly more nuanced than fanboys throwing toys because Luke didn't do the laser swords.

 

Agreed. I think some of the unfair grouping of people critical of TLJ is partly a remmnant of the culture wars surrounding Ghostbusters:Answer the Call in which all critical discussion on the wider internet became quite polarised due to a group trying to make it a front in the culture wars (and suceeding. There won't be a sequel to that movie, I can't see Leslie Jones wanting to put herself through that ever again.)

 

And there are some bad actors who are trying to claim credit for poor non-critic reviews by review bombing.

 

(Be careful with this link as it contains spoilers.) http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-ratings-bots_us_5a38cb78e4b0860bf4aab5b1

 

So on the one hand you have this.



On Monday night, Vanity Fair published a breakdown of the beating the movie has taken in certain corners of the internet. Meanwhile, Polygon and other sites have reported that the Rotten Tomatoes rating is being tanked by bots and/or organized attacks from the anonymous message board 4chan. 

Cue the Down With Disney Facebook page.

“There were supposed to be a trilogy of books and then some after set in the Legends canon. But [Lucasfilm executives] Kathleen Kennedy and Pablo Hidalgo wanted to pursue their own feminst [sic] agenda,” he wrote, adding later, “I was never going to like The Last Jedi anyway because [it] erases everything the EU ever did.”

The Expanded Universe, also known as Star Wars Legends, consists mostly of licensed supplemental material that takes the form of novels, comic books, video games and television series. If you’re wondering how it connects to the big screen stories: In 2014, a Lucasfilm statement declared that “Star Wars” creator George Lucas “always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon.”

When pressed for specific complaints against “The Last Jedi,” the Down With Disney moderator expounded on his disdain for its “feminist agenda.”

“Regarding female heroes: Did you not see everything that came out of Ghostbusters? That is why,” he said. “I’m sick and tired of men being portrayed as idiots. There was a time we ruled society and I want to see that again. That is why I voted for Donald Trump."

All of these feelings and more apparently led the moderator and a “more technically literate” pal to deploy bots via Facebook that flooded Rotten Tomatoes with negative audience reviews about the franchise’s newfound diversity and fresh plot lines.

 

So reading something like that it's really tempting to look at the negatie reviews and believe that it's all fake news. However,

 



If bot accounts did indeed attack the “Last Jedi” ratings, it’s unknown what impact, if any, they actually had on the overall audience score. Not everyone who rated the movie poorly is an anti-feminist fanatic, of course. Either way, Rotten Tomatoes is dubious about Down With Disney’s claims.

Rotten Tomatoes vice president Jeff Voris explained the company’s theory to HuffPost: The Down With Disney moderator is retroactively finding “evidence” he can use to claim that he’s responsible for the negative “Last Jedi” reviews.

“These things happen from time to time where somebody opportunistically seizes on a moment and says, ‘Oh, that thing? Yeah, I did that,’” Voris said.

Voris cites the “Star Wars” reviews that ended up on the “Shape of Water” page as an example of specious evidence that has been heavily discussed by other outlets (such as Bleeding Cool News) and could easily have been found by Down With Disney after the fact.

At Rotten Tomatoes, Voris said they believe the errant reviews on “The Shape of Water” are the result of user error.

 

So while it's tempting for people like me who liked the movie to write off negative reviews as people throwing a tantrum or as another front in the culture wars the evidence points more towards this being a movie in a franchise that like Rogue One took some risks and led to a more polarising reaction among veiwers and fans. (And it's definately clear that's the case here with most of the posters making really good points about why they didn't like it or why they're worried about where this leaves episode 9.) As for the disaprity between the views of professional critics and ordinary punters, this sort of thing always happens in criticism. When your everyday job is steeped in any subject, whether it be films, games, books even food you're inevitably going to value novelty, surprise and misdirection more whereas sometimes ordinary punters who want an escape or respite from their challenging and stressful lives might be more interested in comfort food, especially with franchise films.

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