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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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1 hour ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I remember some grumbling about Ewoks for ages, especially people taking the piss out of the end song. Until it was removed, it's amazing how you can love something that's a little bit hokey.

WHAT?! Who took the piss out of the original end song? I’ve always loved that. The way it builds to a crescendo then blends into the main Star Wars theme was perfect. They properly ruined it when they changed it.

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23 minutes ago, Naieve said:

Holy shit, Admiral Akbar's species are called Mon Calamaris?? looooool Does that mean the pig bloke who was a guard for Jabba is a Mon TastyBacon?

 

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1 hour ago, Kzo said:

I really enjoyed TLJ, but I agree that it does have some fairly major flaws. Some thoughts below:

 

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Luke - Hamill was brilliant. He just is Luke fucking Skywalker and you can tell he loves the character. RJ made some bold choices about Luke's story in the film. I understand why he went in that direction and very much enjoyed it. A part of me is disappointed, I would have loved to see him do what he said he wouldn't: face down the First Order and kick some fucking arse as a Jedi Master. Didn't mind saber throw or milking. Was not sold on considering killing Ben in his sleep.

 

Leia - No idea how they will deal with Carrie's death in the next film. Her scenes were great, although it would be easier for the story going forward if she had been the one to kamikaze in the cruiser. I have no problems with her display of hysterical force strength in flying back to the ship (other than it could have looked better). Leia is Luke's twin and would have comparable raw force potential, it's no great stretch to believe that she would be able to pull that off to save her life.

 

Kylo Rey - These were some of the best scenes of the film for me. Adam was brilliant (and huge). I didn't like Rey in TFA but she is definitely growing on me. I'm worried that Kylo isn't enough of a threat, he keeps getting his arse handed to him. 

 

Snoke - I don't really mind not getting his back story and I'm happy to read about it if a book is released. He went out like a bitch though.

 

Casino - Shit sequence. I think it is generally accepted that this was a poor section of the film. Finn/Poe should be one character. 

 

Poe - Should absolutely be executed.

 

Holdo Kamikaze - Brilliant scene. Will require some techno-babble in the next film to explain why it can't be done again. Resistance don't have Mon Cal cruisers down the back of the sofa.

 

Overall, I thought it was better than TFA. Will need to see it a few more times. I haven't read any of the new canon books, which ones explain the rise of the First Order? I'm familiar with the Imperial Remnant in the EU and imagine it is a similar situation. TBH, I wouldn't have been disappointed if they had just adapted the Thrawn trilogy, with timeline changes for the current age of the actors.

 

Re: the new Canon books, the Aftermath trilogy by Chuck Wendig tell the story directly after the battle of Endor and sow the seeds of the First Order. The first book is slow, the second is really good and the third is slightly disappointing but still better than the first. Worth reading to get some of the backstory though.

 

Bloodline by Claudia Gray (Leia being the main protagonist) tells a bit more of the story too. It's a better read than Aftermath IMO. 

 

There are still gaps to be filled, and I would hope and expect more details released in novels between now and Episode IX.

 

Spoiler

I would very much like to hear more about Snoke assuming we don't get much more of his backstory in the films. 

 

I can completely understand why they haven't told his story before TLJ was released though. I have no idea if that's it for his character or not now he's been chopped up.

 

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I'd love to see a scene where Rey explains to Leia about what Luke did in the tent. I don't imagine he owned up to it before going AWOL.

 

The dialog in the film makes it seem like Snoke was hanging around before that occurred, if so what was his relationship with everyone else? 

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45 minutes ago, Naieve said:

Holy shit, Admiral Akbar's species are called Mon Calamaris?? looooool Does that mean the pig bloke who was a guard for Jabba is a Mon TastyBacon?

 

No, they’re Gamorrean. I’ll leave it up to you to decide if you think that word has origins in the word Gammon.

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Just back from seeing it. It wanted to be empire, but we got jedi by accident.

 

not a bad thing, obv, just didn't feel like a film in the midoly of a trilogy, didoly?

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I thought the grumbling about Ewoks was a more recent thing? Like it took the internet to really take off. 

 

I watched the entire OT before TFA came out. I'd forgotten how good films they are - the original film surprised me. It is very tightly paced and plotted, right from the opening crawl.

 

Empire's obviously amazing from start to finish, but I don't get the ROTJ hate. It's the only one with a bit of fat in the middle, but it had a lot to do wrap things up and that last act. That space battle! That duel! Guerilla warfare against the Empire! Modern trilogies would kill for that as a last act.

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2 hours ago, kensei said:

That space battle! 

 

It's still the most impressive piece of sfx I've seen in any movie ever, as far as I'm concerned. 

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16 minutes ago, JoeK said:

 

It's still the most impressive piece of sfx I've seen in any movie ever, as far as I'm concerned. 

Yep. Those flames lapping around the Falcon as it bursts out of the Death Star is perfection.

 

Theyve tried, and failed, to replicate it in both these new movies. In TFA, near the beginning when Rey is piloting the Falcon through the crashed Star Destroyer, and in TLJ where Chewie is flying it through the salt mines. Neither of those are a patch on the RoTJ version.

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6 minutes ago, JPL said:

Yep. Those flames lapping around the Falcon as it bursts out of the Death Star is perfection.

 

Theyve tried, and failed, to replicate it in both these new movies. In TFA, near the beginning when Rey is piloting the Falcon through the crashed Star Destroyer, and in TLJ where Chewie is flying it through the salt mines. Neither of those are a patch on the RoTJ version.

 

Spoiler

That has shot for shot versions of the Deathstar escape, except with caves. :)

 

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3 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

 

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That has shot for shot versions of the Deathstar escape, except with caves. :)

 

What does?

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It felt like the most expansive movie so far. They were really packing in the characters and sub-plots all over the shop.

 

I’m guessing the universe really needs expanding to keep this one a year thing going for the foreseeable future.

 

Best part for me was

 

Spoiler

Muppet Yoda

 

I was almost fist pumping the air at that point. 

 

Fuck you prequels!

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40 minutes ago, GMass said:
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The mine chase. 

 

I really need to see it again. I can’t remember it being anywhere near as good as the RoTJ Death Star sequence.

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11 hours ago, Naieve said:

anyone got any good Seaweed Hole theories? it felt pretty similar to that tree Luke goes into in Empire.

 

This is an odd one for me. JJ would have had a flash back or forward at this point, showing flashes of things we’ve never seen before, or have Rey dreaming about this hole later in the film, to create a mystery and tell us we’ll (possibly) get an answer in a future instalment. What we saw in TLJ made me think we’ll never see or hear from it again.

 

Rightly or wrongly (because he knew he wouldn’t be around to give the answers), JJ created some interesting mysteries in TFA to leave us wanting more. Rian Johnson didn’t do that at all.

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If we’re talking niggly mistakes then Star Wars and Jedi are full of them. Not Empire as that’s obviously perfect. None of the aforementioned mistakes taint the enjoyment or legacy of them though.

 

Ewoks were unpopular in certain quarters from the day ROTJ was released. I remember people talking about the over-muppety-ness. Ironic when these days they come across as quite malevolent in comparison to a lot of newer Star Wars creations.

 

 

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Just seen it a second time. First viewing it was 8.5/10, the best of the new three. On second viewing, it could be my favourite of all the movies.

 

I got goosebumps in the scene with

Spoiler

Yoda

, that's never happened to me in a film before! 

 

So many little details to love, I can't wait to see it again. The Force Awakens, even though I loved it initially, really drags in subsequent viewings.

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2 hours ago, Treble said:

This is all just opinion, so please take with a pinch of salt, but I think everyone is tying themselves in knots trying to reconcile the new films with the old, from both a fan standpoint and a filmic standpoint. 

 

It's understandable, as the original trilogy are simply great films (like, just fantastic adventures with amazing effects. The ROTJ revisionism is a joke - it's superb). 

 

The Prequels are awful films. You can like them, that's fine (R1 is a bit crap - see below - but I still like it)  but by every accepted measure they are badly written, badly directed, rushed and confused. Consensus on those isn't a problem. 

 

The new three are all over the place. The first one is comfortable and safe, competently made and fairly easy on the eye, but without intelligent ambiguity, subtlety or inventiveness. 

 

Rogue One is comfortably the most well-realised sci-fi world of the three: beautiful, alien, with chunky tech and a real sense of heft to every single effect. The space battle at the end is epic without ruining the aesthetic established by the original Star Wars, and some shots and setups breathtakingly gorgeous. Shame the characterisation and plot veers (pun intended) from 'workmanlike' to 'night soil' in quality terms - pretty much the whole of the second act is a shoddy write off. Basically Gareth  Edwards should remain a glorified DP and leave the real directorial work to grown ups who can actually tell a story. R1 is a hot mess rescued by a decent ending. 

 

Then you have Last Jedi, which is witty, knowing and more than a little transgressive. It makes you clap your hands in glee as it busts some conventions, answers some questions, and also injects some further mystique into the lore. It ties a few knots where it shouldn't perhaps, and unravels a few that should have stayed tied, but overall what it does as a myth-making exercise is fabulous. 

 

...and yet it still makes a lot of fucking niggly mistakes! It's too long by at least 30 minutes and drags heavily in two key places. It has unnecessary subplots, it rushes scenes that should breathe (in fact, the editing is weak overall and it cripples the pacing at times) and spends too much time indulging in slapstick when it should be aiming for goofy, charming witticisms.

 

For all that, the core of the film is so good and brings so much to the table that's new, I'm glad it's out there pushing some boundaries. 

 

So aye, the new lot are still really struggling to find their niche and we're not going to see any kind of consensus emerge for a good while yet. It'll be VERY interesting to see what happens with 'Solo' coming up...

 

 

 

 

 

Good summation.

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Just got back. Was ok. Didn't go as I thought, just like Luke said. 

 

Think I prefer it to Force Awakens overall, which I find quite dull, definitely better than Rogue One, which I haven't been able to make all the way through since seeing it at the cinema, and better than the prequels. 

 

But not better than the originals. 

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This currently has the same IMDB score as Revenge of the Sith, 7.6. 

 

It was at 8.2 a few weeks ago.

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