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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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15 hours ago, womblingfree said:

I heard someone called Patches on a Podcast say he thought Phantom Menace was better than ROTJ.

 

WTF is this Breitbart level, fake news bullshit??

 

 

 

Brilliance.

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I have to take back what I said regarding:

 

 

Kylo killing Snoke the way he did. I was against the manner in how he was dispatched, that someone so powerful couldn't sense a user using the Force.

 

However, watching the prequels and namely the Attack of the Clones, we have Yoda, Mace Windu, and Obi who can't even sense another Sith user right next to them. Namely the threat of Palpatine who is already a Sith Lord.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Jammy said:

@glb Although i enjoyed the film first time round unlike yourself, this is why I definitely need to go again.

 

It is really daft and I’m slightly embarrassed to admit this but I was really glum over my initial disappointment. Not that every film I’d like to be good will end up being so but Star Wars means so much for so many reasons, and has done for nigh on 30-odd years, that I was struggling with my poor reaction, whilst also trying not to be an absolute manchild about it (seeing that others enjoyed it helped).

 

Was very pleasantly surprised today. There’s loads I missed first time around, and most of what jarred simply didn’t in second watch (even that bit). Happy to be wrong, so much so that I might sneak in a third watch, just to enjoy that bit, that bit and, oh, THAT bit!

 

Dumb really, all this over bloody laser swords, ancient religions and protocol droids...

 

(:wub:)

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On 30/12/2017 at 21:41, Captain LeChuck said:

Yeah, let's bring on the Ewoks, that well known space-faring race with their wooden rocket ships...

 

Fuck ewoks. The only ONLY reason they're in ROTJ is because Lucas wanted them. The ewoks were not in Kasdan's script. Kasdan and Marquand had to rework Endor to fit them in. Because George Lucas. 

What a wanker that Lucas is!  It’s not as if he had anything to do with the creation of the franchise.

 

George who?

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It was alright, I think in the next film, Han Solo will walk out of a thunderstorm into some random bar with a disheveled beard and long hair, can see it coming a mile off 

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On 30/12/2017 at 22:14, K said:

The idea that the ewoks in Return of the Jedi were originally supposed to be Wookies is a myth. I don’t think there was ever a version of the ROTJ screenplay with Wookies; the confusion I think came from an earlier version of the script to the original Star Wars, where (IIRC) Luke and Obi-Wan are marooned on a planet of Wookies and foment an uprising. Gary Kurtz is the source of the urban myth, I suspect - he’s forged himself a post-Star Wars career of spinning yarns and telling fans what they want to hear. 

 

ROTJ was ewoks from day one. 

 

Nah. There's definitely a Lucas interview where he says that he decided to cut the Wookies in half and call them Ewoks. It might even be either the ROTJ or ROTS dvd commentaries. Endor was originally supposed to be Kashyyyk. That's part of the reason that Lucas decided to put Kashyyyk in Revenge of the Sith. It was the first appearance of Lucas's perverse sense of humour in making unpopular decisions that would become a constant feature of his prequels.

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16 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

 

Nah. There's definitely a Lucas interview where he says that he decided to cut the Wookies in half and call them Ewoks. It might even be either the ROTJ or ROTS dvd commentaries. Endor was originally supposed to be Kashyyyk. That's part of the reason that Lucas decided to put Kashyyyk in Revenge of the Sith. It was the first appearance of Lucas's perverse sense of humour in making unpopular decisions that would become a constant feature of his prequels.

 

Lucas also claims that he had all the family relationships in Star Wars worked out from the start, that Han was always supposed to be shown shooting first, that he’d worked out Anakin’s fall and redemption prior to even shooting the prequels, that there were always supposed to be be six / nine / twelve SW films, and that he’d intended to superimpose a stop motion monster over the actor playing Jabba in Star Wars in post-production. I love Lucas and think he’s underrated as a director, but he does have a tendency to just lie about stuff in interviews. 

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On 19/12/2017 at 22:11, JohnC said:

They were apparently in all three of the original

movies. 

Well I’ve seen the originals 50 times each at least, I’ve never noticed them

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On 20/12/2017 at 10:48, pervent aline perio grow d said:
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Finn replacing Poe would mean no Oscar Isaac, who for me is the only actor/character I liked watching in TFA and in this, not because he's a well rounded character, but because Isaac is an infinitely better actor than the rest. Maybe I just prefer the bravado, the no nonsense swash buckling approach to everything, maybe I just prefer him because he's removed from being insipid and wet and dramatically emotional. Adam Driver's conflict is well acted, Mark Hamill is grizzled and great, but the weight of their scenes is a bit wearing for the non Star Wars devotees, me at least. A Star Wars film where Oscar Isaac is in every scene would be preferable to me, he doesn't need a character arc, I wouldn't even need a plot, nothing would need to carry meaning and weight or purpose. You'd watch it and, go; yeah, enjoyed that, and that would be it.

 

re barkbat's post

Couldn’t agree with this more. Issac is the best actor in the new films by far

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On 20/12/2017 at 13:07, kensei said:

 

So either the Republic is still extant and presumably has a fuckton of ships or the New Order just took them all over. Either way the "there's only 6 people and a port left" is just confusing.

 

The Republic in disarray, the experienced military leadership pinned in and needing time for the remaining Republic fleet to regroup seems quite enough stakes. Why does the film present it as all hope being snuffed out and they have to go the Outer Rim for help?

This utterly what I don’t get. A “resistance” against whom?

 

what happened to the galaxy spanning New Republic? 

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17 minutes ago, sandman said:

This utterly what I don’t get. A “resistance” against whom?

For things to not get, that one seems a bit odd. They've only been the villains in both movies.

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Just now, JohnC said:

For things to not get, that one seems a bit odd.

But who is running things? 

 

A resistance against the New Republic? Aren’t they Leia’s mates?

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Did you totally miss the First Order, with their massive Star Destroyers and stuff?

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22 hours ago, Jackson said:

I think a good test for a good character is trying to describe them. Rey, Luke, Ren, after this movie I could go on for hours.

For Poe, all I've got is "he's a good pilot, he likes shooting things, he has a droid which he tickles"

 

I loved Poe's arc in this. I saw him as the war hero who believed he was the literal hero and started believing his own stories.

 

He's really really really good at shooting things. He's their number one pilot and by TLJ he's saved the day more than once. Which has somehow led him to believe he's immortal, a master strategist and the only one who wins the day.

 

And at the end of the day...he's really good at shooting things.

 

And that's it.

 

If there's a failing in this film compared to the last Finn and Poe don't bounce off each other in that fun way they did in TFA and without that he's just a really good military tool.

 

In the first film I'd describe him as heroic. In this?

It's all about how his high performance has led him to hubris with the result that many other people paid the price. And how until near the end he just compounds that mistake over and over in order to correct things.



 

It made for an interesting arc IMHO.

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Going to watch this again on Thursday after work. Can't wait! With a couple of weeks forum discussions I'll be looking out for a lot of things I've clearly missed the first time around! 

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36 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Did you totally miss the First Order, with their massive Star Destroyers and stuff?

Isn’t a resistance against the established government? Is that not the New Republic 

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2 minutes ago, sandman said:

Isn’t a resistance against the established government? Is that not the New Republic 

It was a resistance against what Leia saw as the coming threat, which the New Republic didn't believe in. It doesn't have to be against an established government.

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On 23/12/2017 at 20:18, Meh said:

I'd say ANH/ROTJ are about even. Empire stomps them all, of course.

It’s weird that ROJ isn’t as highly thought of as the other two nowadays. Back in the 80s we loved them all equally and saw ROJ as a brilliant end to an amazing set of films. 

 

The new view seems to have become a thing in the last 10 years or so

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On 30/12/2017 at 22:38, GMass said:

phasma

 

  Hide contents

What a waste - that was like boba felt dieing because of a comedy jet pack misfire....oh.  

 

I’ve got a theory that she’s going to be in every film for about two minutes before Finn apparently dispatches her, only for her to return in the next one, a bit like Kenny in South Park

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27 minutes ago, sandman said:

It’s weird that ROJ isn’t as highly thought of as the other two nowadays. Back in the 80s we loved them all equally and saw ROJ as a brilliant end to an amazing set of films. 

 

The new view seems to have become a thing in the last 10 years or so

Above all else, I think this is because we were kids when we saw it, and this was the start of Lucas’ move towards especially kid-friendly movie making. There’s nothing in ANH or Empire which is overtly this way, but Jedi saw the start of his ‘comedy burp’ phase, the ewoks doing loads of daft shit like spinning round on speeder bikes, and Han and Chewie acting like the Chuckle Brothers. Then we all got older and that side of the film isn’t as funny because we like comedy that’s more sophisticated. Don’t get me wrong, I love ROTJ, but not as much as the other two because in many ways it shows a much more childish direction, bizarrely mixed with quite adult themes like temptation, redemption and loss.

 

And the new Jabba’s Palace and end celebration songs can fuck off too.

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35 minutes ago, sandman said:

Isn’t a resistance against the established government? Is that not the New Republic 

 

Basically after the demise of the Empire it seems the First Order started to form from the remnants of the Empire in the Outer Reaches. 

 

The New Republic under the control of Mon Mothma, tired and wary of entering into conflict again had gone down a road of pacifism and massive demilitarisation after the Galactic Civil War and chose to enter treaties with the First Order and seemingly ignore the growing threat. Leia however formed the Resistance, quietly supported by those in the New Republic who shared her concerns. 

 

The events of The Force Awakens, specifically the destruction of the Hosnian system by Starkiller Base (Hosnian Prime being the planet that was hosting the senate at the time - it moved from system to system unlike the Republic prior to the Empire which was obviously based on Coruscant), are therefore the First Orders first act of war against the New Republic and attempt at taking over the galaxy. 

 

As far as I’m aware this is pretty much all the detail that’s known so far regarding the current galactic situation and is pieced together from several of the now canon books. I’m fully up to date with the books but not so much with the comics and so if anyone is aware of something I’ve missed I’d be very interested to know. 

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star-wars-cinematography.0.0.jpg

 

2 hours ago, sandman said:

Well I’ve seen the originals 50 times each at least, I’ve never noticed them

 

They're apparently only in Star Wars (ANH). Supposedly in TFA but not actually visible, according to the article below.

 

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/12/16/explaining-the-gold-dice-in-star-wars-the-last-jedi

 

The prominence of them in TLJ is thought

 

to be a set up for Solo.

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3 minutes ago, Orko said:

Re: Leia

 

  Hide contents

1502497134291.gif

 

 

I saw that comparison elsewhere online, to which someone replied:

 

Spoiler

Unfortunately, Leia's home planet predeceased her.

 

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On 12/31/2017 at 10:50, sprite said:

I am in the disappointed camp, mainly as I enjoyed TFA so much.  It feels very odd to swap directors for one story and not have them really talk about the direction of key plot points.  I mean it sort of makes it seem like ‘someone’ doesn’t really care what story is being told, which is daft.

 

Well what is the point of the politburo Lucasfilm Story Group/Kathleen Kennedy's gang then? Aren't they meant to be ensuring some kind of overarching vision for this new era?

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I don't think they're there to push the story in any given direction, more to ensure that there are no contradictions with what's now considered canon and to offer up advice and ideas around what existing (or things that are coming in the future in other media that they're aware of) can potentially be added into the writer / directors vision. That's my understanding of what they do anyway, from interviews etc. that I've seen.

 

For instance, I'm pretty sure that the inclusion of Saw Garrera in Rogue One was down to them. That character specifically being Saw Garrera doesn't change the story in any way I don't think, but when Gareth Edwards showed them his ideas for the story they probably thought about the characters arc in the Clone Wars and thought that rather than coming up with a new character, it being him would make an interesting addition / link. Which it does imo.

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34 minutes ago, mushashi said:

 

Well what is the point of the politburo Lucasfilm Story Group/Kathleen Kennedy's gang then? Aren't they meant to be ensuring some kind of overarching vision for this new era?

 

No idea.

 

I've read a lot of articles on the topic of Rey's parents and

 

this seems to be a main point between the two directors/writing teams that was not discussed.  JJ and co left it open, and Johnson has allegedly given an answer although there is still a definite get out clause for that for JJ in the third movie again (yes, Rey's parents were losers, but no one has excluded the possibility of her being adopted or something).  It doesn't really matter to me what the answer is; I see merit in both Rey being a "nobody" but also in a potential biological link to Ren (their connection seems a little peculiar, otherwise), but it would be nice if they could both have been on the same page for sure.  This plot point is for me disjointed between the two movies thus far.  

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, GMass said:

I really liked 

  Reveal hidden contents

The idea that Reys parents were just normal people - i was dreading a reveal that she was Luke's love child or some such. 

 

 

I agree and think it is an important element for the main theme of the film for sure, and for the legacy going forward.

 

But the lack of continuity bugs me.  I don’t really understand why they didn’t put the same team on the three films. Or why have the same team for two out of three.

 

A trilogy of this magnitude with no source material, it’s not like Marvel (eg Avengers specifically) with so many independent stories that exist in the same universe, this is the same story.   Nor a bunch of characters who go off on another adventure (something like Star Trek), it’s the same three film long adventure that is being told by different people and I find the decision a little odd, because the characters come across a little differently.

 

I am probably just being overly fussy and cynical :lol: 

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