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Star Wars: The Last Jedi


Steven
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She had no experience of lightsabers, but from what we saw of her on Jakku she's not the sort to back away from a fight, and she certainly knows how to hit people with sticks. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine she's had to defend herself her whole life.

 

Wielding a lightsaber is just a sub-set of her well developed 'hitting people with sticks' skill set. Also JJ went to great lengths to point out that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

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On 01/02/2018 at 20:35, Dirty Harry Potter said:

The biggest problem Disney now have is how throughly they have misunderstood half the fanbase.

 

They must have had massive confidence in TLJ to announce a new Rian SW Trilogy right before it's release - but I really can't see that happening now. The project will attract such loud, negative clickbait for Disney from the 50% of the very vocal fans that hated TLJ - that I can't see Disney wanting to go there. 

 

(snip)

 

Some might see it as brave and exciting. I see it as a clusterfuck waiting to happen.

 

I would have called myself a fan but I've been told I'm not anymore because I liked The Last Jedi. So take this with a pinch of salt.

 

I'm one of the ones who see  saw the Rian trilogy as brave and exciting.

 

But I agree with you, it's not going to happen. Because I agree the fanbase is split 50/50 on this. But the naysayers are much much louder. You can't see a single TLJ thread on Facebook without it instantly being cluttered up with people talking about what a trash fire is and how Rian is human garbage.

 

There won't be a Rian trilogy in the same way as the gender swapped Ghostbusters is dead. If the movie company doesn't kill it because of risk (and insurance companies won't underwrite it because of that risk) then I suspect that Rian will eventually throw his arms up and walk away because life's too short to deal with a large loud group saying that your work is rubbish. (In much the same way that I doubt that there would be no sum of money large enough to tempt Leslie Jones back to do another Ghostbusters movie ever again.)

 

My opinion. This is why we can't have nice things. I suspect others mileage may vary.

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On 01/02/2018 at 21:06, Nick R said:

I liked the fact that Rey's parents turn out to be nobodies.

 

But the bit where I really felt a big mismatch between TFA and TLJ was that in the first film, it comes across like she has some very specific reason to expect that her parents would be back soon: it seems like she's only been off the planet and with Han a few hours when she says something like "I've already been away too long."

 

I saw that as her dealing with the whole "sunk cost" thinking that can stop loads of people from moving forward. "I've been sitting in this shitheap for almost two decades, that can't have all been for nowt!"

 

My take on her parents. Kylo might know everything. Or he might be making stuff up to get in her head.

 

It isn't important. You grow up in a shit heap and poverty and the allure of that fantasy, that fairytale that you're actually important, you're someone  and all you need is a droid or an owl or something to raise you out of the muck can be a sort of trap to stop you doing anything.

 

That moment where Rey has to suddenly deal with the possibility that her parents are nothing, that she is nothing has it's own magic. Because instead of crushing her it steels her resolve. If she isn't in it up to her neck with some of the most powerful people in the galaxy because of who she is or who she kows it means she's there because she means something. Because she saw the opportunity and acted on it. Because maybe instead of being recongnised as important she made herself important. And yeah, some of that might be unexplained talent, some of it might be determination winning out over skills (I don't get the criticism of her knowing how to use a lightsaber, in that fight in TFA it's obvious she doesn't, that is a messy messy fight more akin to street fighting than martial arts.)

 

It's a departure from Star Wars lore. But in some ways it's a more empowering one. That kid with that broom. Instead of dreaming that he might be lifted up and empowered by virtue of birth he can be that change.

 

In any case, it was a brave experiment with the franchise.

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I don't see why the Johnson trilogy won't happen - there are millions and millions of Star Wars fans out there, and if we all listened to the nay sayers on the white noise of the internet, nothing would ever get done.

 

Some Star Wars criticism (note I said *some* - plenty is perfectly valid, there have been some good points raised on this thread - I don't have to agree with it to acknowledge it) is criticism for the sake of criticism and I think some of the criticism of this film has been utterly ridiculous.

 

I'd hope Disney are able to see through some of the nonsense, yet take some of the valid concerns on board when the franchise expands to new projects.

 

Disney haven't got everything right since they bought Lucasfilm, but personally I think they're doing a decent job and I'm enjoying the Star Wars output in recent years.

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2 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

I don't see why the Johnson trilogy won't happen - there are millions and millions of Star Wars fans out there, and if we all listened to the nay sayers on the white noise of the internet, nothing would ever get done.

 

 

I'd love to believe that but the past four years in gaming has shown me otherwise. I've seen a lot of talented people walk away from projects or from the industry altogether after dealing with backlashes from loud fans.

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1 minute ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I'd love to believe that but the past four years in gaming has shown me otherwise. I've seen a lot of talented people walk away from projects or from the industry altogether after dealing with backlashes from loud fans.

 

I wouldn't know about the gaming industry but surely there's still demand for Star Wars movies? 

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After time to reflect, my biggest criticism with the film is that it's a bit... dull. My earlier criticism (that the pacing is off) is a big part of it, but it's also that as an adventure it's not very exciting. It's fine to argue the toss over representation, theme, tone, and various levels of narrative sophistication (I think it scores highly in all those areas), but for me the pew-pew stuff ain't much cop. 

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2 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

 

I wouldn't know about the gaming industry but surely there's still demand for Star Wars movies? 

 

I suspect the points being made is that with takings being down on TLJ and associated franchises (toys, videogames) as well as poor user ratings and a very loud contingent of hardcore fans taking every opportunity to trash TLJ on social media it would be less risky to either get JJ to do the next movie strictly in the George Lucas style with no surprises or do a Highlander 2 and pretend TLJ never happened.

 

Demand for Star Wars is there but only for the right sort of Star Wars.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they get George Lucas in to do the next trilogy. It's what the (loudest) fans want.

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Predictions for Star Wars 9: Retcon Of The Dark Side

 

*Hux has a mysterious lunchbox, and you never get to find out what's in it.

*Poe Dameron is the real hero, he wears a fedora and he punches a whole platoon of stormtroopers to death while Metallica or something badass like that plays.

*The weird little orange thing with goggles reveals that Kylo was lying about Rey's parents and her dad is actually Chewie, who has lots of dormant midi-chlorians.

*There's a new Death Star like thing, and Kylo says "witness the power of this fully operational battle station!"

*The comic relief ethnic characters spend the whole film in an escape pod, until a barechested Cameron Poe rescues them at the end.

*Really weak ending, leaving lots of unresolved mysteries.

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35 minutes ago, MechE said:

Also JJ went to great lengths to point of that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

 

Funnily enough, of all the issues people had with TFA (the majority of which didn't bother me in the least), one that I don't recall seeing anyone else mention before was actually a bit of a problem for me; in all the years they've been together, how come Han had never had a go on Chewie's bowcaster before? I'm on board with the reasons why they made a point of ensuring the audience knew how powerful it was (as MechE said above) but I'm sure there could have been a better way of doing it. I think having either Rey or Finn grab it and start blasting after Chewie gets shot and go "wow!" when she / he sees the damage it can do would have worked better. Tiny detail though, no biggie really.

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2 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I would have called myself a fan but I've been told I'm not anymore because I liked The Last Jedi.

 

Who's told you that, and why would liking The Lat Jedi make you lose your fanboy credentials?

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31 minutes ago, JPL said:

 

Who's told you that, and why would liking The Lat Jedi make you lose your fanboy credentials?

 

Randoms on the internet. Doesn't get deeper than that because I bail on that sort of debate on Facebook.

 

It's really weird, I remember when fan culture was all about trying to get people interested in what you liked, not acting like cultural gatekeepers.

 

At least here (in rllmuk) we can have some decent debate :)

 

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3 hours ago, MechE said:

She had no experience of lightsabers, but from what we saw of her on Jakku she's not the sort to back away from a fight, and she certainly knows how to hit people with sticks. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine she's had to defend herself her whole life.

 

Wielding a lightsaber is just a sub-set of her well developed 'hitting people with sticks' skill set. Also JJ went to great lengths to point of that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

 

There's also the fact that he's in serious emotional turmoil after killing his own dad. IIRC, Snoke claimed that's why he was beaten by her.

 

2 hours ago, Mr Cochese said:

*There's a new Death Star like thing, and Kylo says "witness the power of this fully operational battle station!"

 

YES

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4 hours ago, MechE said:

She had no experience of lightsabers, but from what we saw of her on Jakku she's not the sort to back away from a fight, and she certainly knows how to hit people with sticks. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine she's had to defend herself her whole life.

 

Wielding a lightsaber is just a sub-set of her well developed 'hitting people with sticks' skill set. Also JJ went to great lengths to point of that Chewie's bowcaster was a comically overpowered weapon, so Kylo was dealing with a pretty significant wound during that fight.

 

Yeah but you can't accidentally slice your own head off with a stick. 

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20 hours ago, Hanzo the Razor said:

 

Yeah but you can't accidentally slice your own head off with a stick. 

 

You can still hit yourself with it though.  But here’s the thing, do you imaging you’d accidentally cut off a limb swinging a lightsaber or a sword around for that matter?  Amazingly you’re pretty aware of where things are, in all my years of HEMA training I accidentally hit myself once (cross-guard to the top of the head) after training for 6 hours solid and suffering from sun stroke.  But she’s used to using a weapon to fight, if not that particular one, one which has a lot of transferable skills.

 

Ren is, as noted above, pretty emotionally devestated after killing his father, additionally he’s also been shot by Chewie’s bowcaster we’ve watched send stormtrooper flying, so is pretty injured, and has already been fighting Finn.  Despite all that she just about holds her own against him, it’s hardly the embarrassing beating some have reframed it as.

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Well after avoiding spoilers, reviews and friends talking about it since it released I went to see TLJ in the cinema today. 

 I can’t say I didn’t enjoy it - every scene with Kylo and Rey together was excellent. Luke was great when he wasn’t doing cheap comedy moments but overall it was a mess. 

 Mary Poppins Leia, that casino scene - in fact Fins whole story arc in here. It’s better than the prequels - that’s as much as I can say. 

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