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Bojangle
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Yeah, but he's not going say "also, the Bone X games are always going to look best" is he.

 

Also, it's probably fair that today the main dividing line between base PS4 and Bone are some or all of: more stable frame rate, higher resolution, more occasionally effects like shadow resolution or motion blur or AA/filtering, texture resolution at distance.

 

A lot of devs, I'd guess, are going to move the PC graphics setting slider slightly higher on Bone X than on Pro. How much "slightly higher" means will depend on how much effort they put in per platform?

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That Jim Ryan quote doesn't even make sense, Very few developers took advantage of the PS3 hardware because it was notoriously difficult to code for. THEY released a system which wasn't developer friendly or was able to take advantage of the widespread tools of the time.

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Non-garbled quote:

 

Quote

I'd like to talk about games coming out on PS4 Pro and Xbox One X that you have marketing deals with. Call of Duty you have a deal with. FIFA, Battlefield you have deals with. Do you anticipate there being a significant performance and image quality difference on those games on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro?

 

Jim Ryan: I'm not going to go into the detail of what's embedded into individual contracts with publishing partners. What I would do is cast our minds back to the PS3 generation, where we had on paper more impressive specifications than our competition, and in some areas by quite a considerable margin. Now, that didn't play out the way we had anticipated it would - and this is nothing to do with co-marketing deals, this is just general developer and publisher dynamics. What happened was that developers, maybe at the behest of publishers, developed up to the lowest common denominator and stopped there. And in very few cases took advantage of the additional horsepower of the PS3.

 

Now, I'm a big believer of learning lessons from history. History doesn't always repeat itself. But if you're a publisher of video games, that is a perfectly commercially rational approach for you to take.

 

Why do you say that?

 

Jim Ryan: Because you only do one set of work. You don't do one set of work to get up to one level and then a different amount of work and consequently may need to go further.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-14-the-big-interview-sonys-jim-ryan

 

 

I think there have probably been cases where the Xbox One has been the lowest common denominator and things have been scaled up and vice versa.

 

I think scalability is becoming more and more important, and Microsoft have been doing a lot of work to have devs be able to do the minimum amount of work required to have a game built once and run on Xbox One, One X and PC. I would imagine various engines are better at scaling than others, and then having different APIs between Xbox and PS4 is going to play another role, but on the whole that seems to be the direction things are moving in.

 

Things like dynamic resolution scaling, or even just picking different fixed resolutions are standard practice.

 

 

 

As for his follow up question on whether Sony have deals in place to ensure parity between Xbox One X and PS4 Pro, I would be very, very surprised if Sony are worried in that way about a $500 console which they're currently outselling by a huge margin.

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13 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

Yeah, but he's not going say "also, the Bone X games are always going to look best" is he.

Well, true. It was in response to Phil's unnecessary (and incorrect) comparison of the One S and Pro.

 

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Non-garbled quote:

Cheers. I didn't cheer pick, I grabbed two paragraphs from whatever site it was from (VG247?).

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3 hours ago, TehStu said:

Oh give over, everyone is at it.

 

edit - I assume Moz means Xbox owners being insulted, rather than doing the insulting. Console threads are so tedious.

 

This pretty much. I own an xbox but i freely admit IF i had the time and money Id get a PS4 and hell a switch cos of certain titles. Can't we all just get along :/ Not aimed at a particular person but yea it is tedious from both points.

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6 hours ago, JPL said:

I'm obviously not very clued up on this but how is something like Forza 7 managing true 4K at 60fps with plenty of overhead then?

 

Is it to do with it being a confined game or something?

 

I'm not really arsed about all these tech specs, but I thought the X was a magnitude more powerful than the Pro. What's the point if it really isn't?

 

It's a 1st party title. 1st party titles will always be technically ahead of 3rd party/multiplat titles. Also explains why Forza 7 looked so good, Turn 10 are using everything available to them on X where as a 3rd party might port over and not spend the time/have development resources to use/implement the extra things available to them.

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51 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

 

It's a 1st party title. 1st party titles will always be technically ahead of 3rd party/multiplat titles. Also explains why Forza 7 looked so good, Turn 10 are using everything available to them on X where as a 3rd party might port over and not spend the time/have development resources to use/implement the extra things available to them.

 

That's part of it but it probably has more to do with the base game being a 30fps target and an open world rather than a race track with a predictable number of cars on it.

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Gears4 done in a day as well:

 

Quote

The Coalition’s Technical Director, Mike Rayner was recently on stage at E3 Coliseum in an interview with Microsoft’s Larry Hryb. He talked about their development experience for the Xbox One X and how much time it took them to port the game there. According to Rayner, the developers were able to get the game up and running on the Xbox One X within a single day. All of the basic functionality was up and running for them including the multiplayer and when they made the game run at 4K on the Xbox One, they still had additional performance headroom to improve the core visuals, which they did.

 

Rayner then explains the new additions to Gears of War 4 on the Xbox One including improved screen space reflections, improved dynamic shadowing system and 4K textures. While the game still runs at 30 FPS on the Xbox One X, these are still significant improvement especially the resolution which has increased from native 1080p from Xbox One to native 4K on the Xbox One X. The game also supports Dolby Atmos for those who have the necessary setup for it.

 

Rayner also talked about the development difficulty of porting a game to something like PC where there are multiple configurations to keep in mind compared to something like Xbox One X with a closed hardware and single configuration. While the game runs at 4K and 30 fps on the Xbox One X for single player, the developers are sticking with 60 fps for the multiplayer due to competitive gaming and e-sports making it a necessity.

 

 

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On 13/06/2017 at 14:45, Wallace said:

Oaft, shots fired from Uncle Phil... 

 

"I look at Pro as more of a competitor to S than I do to Xbox One X. This is a true 4K console. If you just look at the specs of what this box is, it's in a different league than any other console that's out there."

 

"I look at it not as a competitor to the PS4, but more as a desperate grab at their install base"

 

18 hours ago, JPL said:

I'm obviously not very clued up on this but how is something like Forza 7 managing true 4K at 60fps with plenty of overhead then?

 

Is it to do with it being a confined game or something?

 

I'm not really arsed about all these tech specs, but I thought the X was a magnitude more powerful than the Pro. What's the point if it really isn't?

 

There were a few things in the Microsoft conference, bits of Forza and State of Decay, that didn't look as amazing as I expected in terms of animations. I'd bet there are sacrifices being made to hit 4K.

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17 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

"I look at it not as a competitor to the PS4, but more as a desperate grab at their install base"

 

 

There were a few things in the Microsoft conference, bits of Forza and State of Decay, that didn't look as amazing as I expected in terms of animations. I'd bet there are sacrifices being made to hit 4K.

State of Decay looked quite Janky on 360 and Xbox One. I think they're a small team and that it's not a AAA title. 

 

No idea about Forza though. 

 

Evidence elsewhere (such as Gears, above) suggests that reaching 4k isn't a source of compromise either. 

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36 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

State of Decay looked quite Janky on 360 and Xbox One. I think they're a small team and that it's not a AAA title. 

 

 

Aye people forget this. I do remember reading somewhere the new one has 3 areas, each of which bigger than the entirety of the main game so its worth a look for that alone + co-op. The original really was an underrated gem. 

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19 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

Dynamic resolutions, scalability, bottlenecks, True 4K, 60fps.. The PC Master Race has finally won and taken over both worlds. It is over people. :P

The moment Boozy started arguing about Witcher 3 ultra settings at certain resolutions and framerates, he had become a pc gamer without realizing it. One of us! Correction: Xbox One of us!

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Apologies if this has been posted before, but the first hour of this video is a really excellent chat between Phil Spencer and Jeff Gerstmann.  They have an open, interesting discussion about the One X, Microsoft's VR plans (including Direct Reality, which sounds like it's going to be the VR equivalent of Direct X allowing developers to target all VR hardware in one go), backwards compatibility, the implications of the One X to the PC market and various other stuff.  It's really good and is almost entirely free of marketing spiel.

 

 

It starts at 2:20

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The segment, which starts at 2 hours and 6 minutes in the video, has Major Nelson, and Xbox Hardware GM Leo Del Castillo show off the different component inside an Xbox One X such as the main motherboard, and the Scorpio engine chip, before touching on things like memory and voltage regulators.

 

 

http://www.vg247.com/2017/06/15/watch-a-microsoft-engineer-put-together-an-xbox-one-x-piece-by-piece/

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Just a thought, and probably a load of nonsense that shows how little I understand coding etc but could, say, a first party studio include extra code on a disc. What I mean is, I've read comments where people have said that the games can't deviate too much from the One or One S. Improvements can only be higher frame rates or resolution bumps, maybe extra textures. But theoretically speaking and not worrying about a budget could a dev such as the coalition throw code or what have you that really ramps up the visuals to a game along side code for the base hardware. Say the disc would know it's in an Xbox and run a much graphically improved game with assets significantly better over the standard bone. Physics stuff, extra polygons the whole shebang. Is that actually possible on these mid gen refresh machines, could they theoretically play vastly superior versions to the base consoles. Two sets of games on the same disc sort of thing.

 

Like I say I'm talking theoretically here, I know it's a non-starter, needing parity with base hardware and net code etc etc but, well just wondering if something like that could be done. 

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54 minutes ago, PK said:

Apologies if this has been posted before, but the first hour of this video is a really excellent chat between Phil Spencer and Jeff Gerstmann.  They have an open, interesting discussion about the One X, Microsoft's VR plans (including Direct Reality, which sounds like it's going to be the VR equivalent of Direct X allowing developers to target all VR hardware in one go), backwards compatibility, the implications of the One X to the PC market and various other stuff.  It's really good and is almost entirely free of marketing spiel

Yeah, this is really worth a listen. 

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3 hours ago, amc said:

Just a thought, and probably a load of nonsense that shows how little I understand coding etc but could, say, a first party studio include extra code on a disc. What I mean is, I've read comments where people have said that the games can't deviate too much from the One or One S. Improvements can only be higher frame rates or resolution bumps, maybe extra textures. But theoretically speaking and not worrying about a budget could a dev such as the coalition throw code or what have you that really ramps up the visuals to a game along side code for the base hardware. Say the disc would know it's in an Xbox and run a much graphically improved game with assets significantly better over the standard bone. Physics stuff, extra polygons the whole shebang. Is that actually possible on these mid gen refresh machines, could they theoretically play vastly superior versions to the base consoles. Two sets of games on the same disc sort of thing.

 

Like I say I'm talking theoretically here, I know it's a non-starter, needing parity with base hardware and net code etc etc but, well just wondering if something like that could be done. 

 

Sure. What do you think happens when you switch graphics settings on a PC?

what it probably won't do is shunt things up massively except for textures on a 1080-4k bump, perhaps improved shadows: but even that should be very noticeable.

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4 hours ago, amc said:

Just a thought, and probably a load of nonsense that shows how little I understand coding etc but could, say, a first party studio include extra code on a disc. What I mean is, I've read comments where people have said that the games can't deviate too much from the One or One S. Improvements can only be higher frame rates or resolution bumps, maybe extra textures. But theoretically speaking and not worrying about a budget could a dev such as the coalition throw code or what have you that really ramps up the visuals to a game along side code for the base hardware. Say the disc would know it's in an Xbox and run a much graphically improved game with assets significantly better over the standard bone. Physics stuff, extra polygons the whole shebang. Is that actually possible on these mid gen refresh machines, could they theoretically play vastly superior versions to the base consoles. Two sets of games on the same disc sort of thing.

 

Like I say I'm talking theoretically here, I know it's a non-starter, needing parity with base hardware and net code etc etc but, well just wondering if something like that could be done. 

 

Read the last page of the Gears of War 4 thread.

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Err so it adds extra assets, polygons, physics rendering techniques blah blah that take advantage of the Xbox's extra grunt. I'm not talking about up-scales and higher rez textures I was asking about basically two versions of a game on one disc, coded differently, one for standard hardware and one that could only be done on the new hardware using all of its power. I suppose what I was really wondering and thought up a ham-fisted way of asking is if the Xbox wasn't held back by the bone could it do some proper next gen shit.

 

It was just a curious tech question, totally not something a dev will do with the machine but I just wondered if it was possible. Doesn't matter.

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@amc These mid-gen machines are only going to offer up better visuals. There's a good reason for this, crudely put video games have two main components - a graphics engine and game logic - broadly speaking graphics run on the GPU and game logic runs on the CPU. Graphics engines scale easily, higher resolution, better antialiasing and so forth. Game logic, however, doesn't scale easily at all. Let's imagine these new machines had much more powerful CPUs so instead of being able to handle 30 enemies at any time they could now handle 60 enemies with improved A.I. Problem there is you'd need to rebalance the entire game, then retest it all too - a monumental undertaking which would result in two entirely different games.

 

This is why both Sony and MS's new machines have massively more powerful GPU's than their predecessors but only marginally faster CPU's. You'll need to wait till the next full generation before you see a big leap in game logic. 

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