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CrichStand

CrichStand

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, TehStu said:

 

The rest of your argument went on to describe what would happen in a clear generational divide, which isn't necessarily true now. Yes, PS4 has twice the numbers out there, but if Scoprio goes on to be the base model of the "next generation", that's where things get interesting. The Xbox appears to have the framework to permit that.

 

Anyway, you're absolutely right of course - if you don't want an Xbox, you don't want this, but I'm not 100% sure that was ever the point of it, much like the Pro.

Well what I'm trying to say is that the upgrade model of doing things makes sense for Sony and its playing directly into their hands. They've got the huge installed user base, (2-1 over the Xbox One) and so the lion's share of the market. Thus they're going to be the main focus for 3rd party developers. They also have the advantage of being able to use that market share to bag 3rd party exclusives and have been very canny with their own 1st party titles this gen. They also have the PSVR on the market, which gives a solid reason in consumers eyes for the PS Pro to exist. It offers a new experience and new way of playing games. Basically they've got their shit together and are looking pretty much bulletproof. They're ahead of the curve and the balls in their court for the foreseeable future.

 

On the other hand and for the most part, Microsoft just haven't got those benefits. So, the business model of using an upgraded console doesn't really make much sense. They're essentially now just playing catch up and flogging a dead horse. Think they've sold something like 30m Xbones. So the Scorpio is obviously not going to be selling that amount for quite some time, if it ever does at all. Chances are there are always going to be more base unit owners than upgraded unit owners. Same goes for the PS4 and the Pro.

 

Also, you say that a benefit is that the Scorpio could become the next gen base model. How would that work and how is that a positive? Surely that would then mean that the next gen console would be limited by the Scorpio itself and I could just buy the same games for Scorpio (or Ps Pro) than sooner buy the new hardware which would defeat the whole point of well, ya know, buying the new hardware. See this upgrade bollocks really doesn't make much sense at all. It's like they've looked at Apple and the iPad and just thought "yeah why not, if people are Daft enough to buy it". It's like they've not really thought any of this shit through properly and have just seen dollar signs. Just give me a true next gen console, with clear benefits, and brand new exclusive games and experiences or, well........just don't bother giving me anything at all! Put the effort into bringing the awesome games and maxing out the system that's already available. :)

 

So, i guess what I'm really saying, is that these upgraded consoles in general, are a bit of a scam. People are essentially laying out £400 on slightly upgraded hardware to play the same games they can already play on the hardware they currently own. A few years ago that £400 would either have got you a shit ton of awesome games or a brand new next gen console, that provided next gen games and next gen experiences, that you couldn't get anywhere else. Like I say, it's consumerism gone mad! And if people buy into this shit then sadly it's only going to get worse from here on in. "Introducing.......the PS4 Pro Pro"! Hahaha.

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Dimahoo

Dimahoo

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But it happened during the Amiga days, and the Spectrum days as well.

 

True Gamers don't care about this shit. They want the latest thing. Always been the case.

 

The only difference of late is that you've just bought another console but most gamers have had at least two machines from each gen so effectively paid the same money, all things considered.

 

The only Caveat is that you had more choice with two different machines but theres so many great games these days that even that's an irrelevancy.

 

 

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Opinionated Ham Scarecrow

Opinionated Ham Scarecrow

Posted
Posted

Lol at the it's a scam comment. MS are putting out a console that is more powerful than the competition, plays existing software better, plays the huge library of backwards compatible 360 software much better and has both announced and unannounced first party software support.

 

For anyone interested in high fidelity gaming it's an excellent prospect. I hope they price it right and have a few surprises up their sleeves at e3.

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angel

angel

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Even if people don't want this, competition raises the tide for everyone. Microsoft need to bring out good stuff to stop Sony getting complacent, and vice versa. This is literally good for everyone here.

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BBBBBB

BBBBBB

Posted
Posted

Everything looks a bit worse on Xbox One than on even standard PS4. They need to do this simply to address that issue for the next few years. Fair enough. Don't envy the marketing team who has to make both this and the S seem appealing though.

Bet they wish they could just phase out the original hardware and convince the bean counters to take a massive hit on the hardware and keep it at a similar price.

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DC Lemon

DC Lemon

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, clippa said:

Do you think there's any chance of devs giving players menu options like on pc, at least in single player?

Even if it was just a simplified toggle, like maybe you could choose between 4k and all the shinies at 30fps or 1080p at 60fps.

 

Some titles already offer options like that on PS4 Pro, so yes.

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TehStu

TehStu

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, angel said:

Even if people don't want this, competition raises the tide for everyone. Microsoft need to bring out good stuff to stop Sony getting complacent, and vice versa. This is literally good for everyone here.

Post of the thread. You don't want one company running away with it, that's demonstrably bad. Arguably, you're all able to wax lyrical about the PS4 because Sony dug deep after the massive damage farce.

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rafaqat

rafaqat

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fully Aspel said:

Well what I'm trying to say is that the upgrade model of doing things makes sense for Sony and its playing directly into their hands. They've got the huge installed user base, (2-1 over the Xbox One) and so the lion's share of the market. Thus they're going to be the main focus for 3rd party developers. They also have the advantage of being able to use that market share to bag 3rd party exclusives and have been very canny with their own 1st party titles this gen. They also have the PSVR on the market, which gives a solid reason in consumers eyes for the PS Pro to exist. It offers a new experience and new way of playing games. Basically they've got their shit together and are looking pretty much bulletproof. They're ahead of the curve and the balls in their court for the foreseeable future.

 

On the other hand and for the most part, Microsoft just haven't got those benefits. So, the business model of using an upgraded console doesn't really make much sense. They're essentially now just playing catch up and flogging a dead horse. Think they've sold something like 30m Xbones. So the Scorpio is obviously not going to be selling that amount for quite some time, if it ever does at all. Chances are there are always going to be more base unit owners than upgraded unit owners. Same goes for the PS4 and the Pro.

 

Also, you say that a benefit is that the Scorpio could become the next gen base model. How would that work and how is that a positive? Surely that would then mean that the next gen console would be limited by the Scorpio itself and I could just buy the same games for Scorpio (or Ps Pro) than sooner buy the new hardware which would defeat the whole point of well, ya know, buying the new hardware. See this upgrade bollocks really doesn't make much sense at all. It's like they've looked at Apple and the iPad and just thought "yeah why not, if people are Daft enough to buy it". It's like they've not really thought any of this shit through properly and have just seen dollar signs. Just give me a true next gen console, with clear benefits, and brand new exclusive games and experiences or, well........just don't bother giving me anything at all! Put the effort into bringing the awesome games and maxing out the system that's already available. :)

 

So, i guess what I'm really saying, is that these upgraded consoles in general, are a bit of a scam. People are essentially laying out £400 on slightly upgraded hardware to play the same games they can already play on the hardware they currently own. A few years ago that £400 would either have got you a shit ton of awesome games or a brand new next gen console, that provided next gen games and next gen experiences, that you couldn't get anywhere else. Like I say, it's consumerism gone mad! And if people buy into this shit then sadly it's only going to get worse from here on in. "Introducing.......the PS4 Pro Pro"! Hahaha.

 

We're getting consoles that are upgraded on current stuff. In the scorpio case almost six times as powerful as the base model. We're getting to keep our digital purchases. We're being told that some of our purchases are going to run smoother and at a higher res day one for no extra money. I wouldn't call that a scam. I'd call that the console industry growing up. 

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T Pot

T Pot

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, sir shrew said:

 

I think it's becoming safe to assume the  Crackdown 3 cloud-based physics calculation tech demo is not coming to fruition. I think we'll see a scaled down version for the eventual Crackdown 3 but the whole cloud-boost was just a PR stunt by MS to counter the perception of the XBox One being underpowered, ie. "there's less power in the box but cloud-computing is coming!"

 

It's been so long since anyone heard anything of Crackdown 3, I know Sumo are supposed to be developing it and we'll probably see something at E3 but I don't think it will be the same city level physics destruction from the announcement, and I think it's just as likely to disappear quietly.

 

I doubt it. There's been more tech demos and showcases of how the tech works since that original 2015 video where they pit two PCs playing crackdown. One locally with a 980 and one using a 980 and cloud magic. The local game grinds to about 10fps while the cloud one sails along at 30 when the buildings come down.

 

Also: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/new-crackdown-3-info-is-on-the-horizon-developer-s/1100-6449191/

 

It was only delayed by a year. That happens very regularly in the gaming world. 

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Vemsie

Vemsie

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, clippa said:

Do you think there's any chance of devs giving players menu options like on pc, at least in single player?

Even if it was just a simplified toggle, like maybe you could choose between 4k and all the shinies at 30fps or 1080p at 60fps.


I think there will be, it's up to the devs as 4K isn't mandatory. A couple of games on the Pro have different modes that prioritize framerate over resolution (like Tomb Raider and Nioh), so we'll probably see it on Scorpio as well.

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CrichStand

CrichStand

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Dimahoo said:

But it happened during the Amiga days, and the Spectrum days as well.

 

True Gamers don't care about this shit. They want the latest thing. Always been the case.

 

The only difference of late is that you've just bought another console but most gamers have had at least two machines from each gen so effectively paid the same money, all things considered.

 

The only Caveat is that you had more choice with two different machines but theres so many great games these days that even that's an irrelevancy.

 

 

I beg to differ, true gamers do care about this shit. They mostly care about the actual gameplay itself. I know I do anyway. It's the games that ultimately define my choice of whether to buy a console or not. It's not how powerful the hardware is, how whizz bang the graphics are or how ultra hd the audio sounds. If hasn't got anything decent to play then it's useless! Just to point out, I've never played on PC, unless you count the C-16 and Amiga! :) I've always been an arcade/console gamer, so have never experienced upgrading outside of buying a machine that jumps a generation.

 

I also care about having to pay £400 for a console, only for it to be superseded with a slightly better version that costs another £400 a couple of years later and where that whole business model could end up leading to. Especially when up until fairly recently I've bought all of the consoles from each gen. This whole practice is far more likely to end up with me just picking one and sticking with it. Oh dear, they're losing sales already! Hahaha. 

 

Having said that, if it's a brand new "next gen" console then that changes things a fair bit. Because the power and whizz bang graphics can provide developers with possibilities to make games that are above and beyond anything that has gone before. They provide new experiences and new ways to play and that's partly my problem here. An upgrade is always going to be limited by the base console. You're not getting anything new outside of slightly whizzier graphics, 'cause at the end of the day the game still has to work on the base model. So, ultimately, you're getting shortchanged for the money you spend, compared to buying a true next gen machine with next gen games. The simple fact is that, this whole upgrade thing isn't needed at all. It's just a way for companies to rake even more money in and drive sales of their other products (that aren't really needed either) such as 4K TVs. :) 

22 minutes ago, Gizamaluke said:

Lol at the it's a scam comment. MS are putting out a console that is more powerful than the competition, plays existing software better, plays the huge library of backwards compatible 360 software much better and has both announced and unannounced first party software support.

 

For anyone interested in high fidelity gaming it's an excellent prospect. I hope they price it right and have a few surprises up their sleeves at e3.

Or put another way.......

 

Its more powerful, which is made redundant because the games still have to work on the base unit. You can play existing games...... that you can already play on the existing console without spending £400+. You can play a huge library of 360 games.......that you can already play on a 360 for peanuts, or on the Xbox One, without spending £400+. It has games announced for it........well I'd hope so! But there's that thing again, they're only the same games you can play on the standard Xbone.

 

Just to to be clear, not having a go at the Xbox, same goes for the PS Pro. I just feel that the upgrade model way of doing things makes far more sense for Sony with the position they're currently in.

 

And, as I've mentioned, if Microsoft can struggle back and get some decent 3rd party exclusives and decent first party titles then that would be great. Looking forward to seeing what they roll out at E3!

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Stanley

Stanley

Posted
Posted
Just now, Vemsie said:

It's certainly a well-designed one. As much as I like my Pro, it's half-baked compared to this.

Agreed. The whole thing just looks really elegantly designed. I was really pleased to hear about the cooling method they're using. 

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CrichStand

CrichStand

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

We're getting consoles that are upgraded on current stuff. In the scorpio case almost six times as powerful as the base model. We're getting to keep our digital purchases. We're being told that some of our purchases are going to run smoother and at a higher res day one for no extra money. I wouldn't call that a scam. I'd call that the console industry growing up. 

6 times as powerful as the base model?!?!? Does that make it next next next next next next gen? :) Even if it is, it can still only play the same games as the base console anyway. :doh: Not being funny with ya man, but you say your current purchases will run better/smoother for no extra money. You do realise you have to buy the Scorpio yeah? ;)

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layten

layten

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Boozy The Clown said:

Anybody care to question the "Jaguar" CPU claims considering a Jaguar would explode at the quoted clockspeed ?

Looks like a custom designed core rather than an el boggo Jaguar core. AMD have been touting custom designed x86 CPU's for a short while and it looks like MS took them up on it. Bound to be more expensive than a standard design, but it looks like MS have got a chip tailored for its intended purpose that could offer up a bigger lead over the Pro than raw clock speed alone.

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