Xbox One X

[Isaac]

4 minutes ago, Revival said:

 

That's not even worth a comparison as you aren't comparing like for like. It's a complete lottery whether or not a PC game is a good port in the first place and then you play a game of chance on how it'll run on a certain setup. The vast majority of PC games are not optimised well. There's quite a gulf between a brute force solution vs coding for a single spec system.

 

They aren't going to be coding for a single spec platform, they are going to be coding for four platforms (potentially five if you include PC).

 

Also, this exact argument was given when the Pro was announced with 4k support, and then lo and behold it came out with pretty much exactly the performance that was expected (1440p, upscaled to 4k).

 

It won't run native 4k well.

[PaB]

17 minutes ago, sir shrew said:

Can we now acknowledge the PS4 Pro was a fucking idiotic move by Sony? 

 

Nope. Mine's great. 4K HDR, even faux checkerboarded 4k is a thing of beauty.

[HarryBizzle]

I think Microsoft have got good form for putting the work in - they've been tuning each BC release to get things working as best as they can on the Bone. 

 

I don't see why it should be any different for Scorpio.

 

Edit: @Isaac Even in the initial reveal of the Pro they were talking about checkerboarding. They didn't say anything about native 4K aspirations. 

[Isaac]

7 minutes ago, sir shrew said:

 

Nothing to stop patches for Scorpio for any games that would benefit from it.

 

The original argument was that if we go by what we've seen on the Pro, very few third party Devs will bother to patch an old game.

 

Which is fair enough, there is fuck all business case to patch an old game with Pro / Scorpio support. Would fail even the most generous cost / benefit analysis.

[Clipper]

3 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

The original argument was that if we go by what we've seen on the Pro, very few third party Devs will bother to patch an old game.

 

Which is fair enough, there is fuck all business case to patch an old game with Pro / Scorpio support. Would fail even the most generous cost / benefit analysis.

they dont need to patch them MS is ensuring compatibility - read the article before spouting nonsense please

 

Given their work with BC I think everyone can agree that MS engineers are very much upto the task.

[PaB]

Of course, there are some native 4k titles on Pro - Fifa 17 and Resogun spring to mind.

 

If Scorpio can do native 4k for most releases , and have a driver level solution for existing games then more power to it. It will be a great development.

[HarryBizzle]

1 minute ago, Clipper said:

they dont need to patch them MS is ensuring compatibility - read the article before spouting nonsense please

 

 

This is the same as boost mode on the PS4, though. The only added thing is the built in AF override (and that Microsoft are putting the work in to guarantee compatability rather than turning half of their GPU off like Sony). 

 

 

Less tearing, higher resolution in dynamic resolution games, better framerates and shorter loading times are all possible with boost mode. 

[SeanR]

have they announced OG Xbox backwards compatability yet?

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

I am surprised regarding the leaks of a 4k 60fps Witcher 3 in the pipeline. CD Project completely dismissed a Pro patch cos they were all at work on Cyberpunk, so MS must have either thrown cash at them or taken on the work themselves.

 

It's certainly a big draw to have the best version (without a 2 grand PC) of the best game ever.

[Clipper]

9 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

This is the same as boost mode on the PS4, though. The only added thing is the built in AF override (and that Microsoft are putting the work in to guarantee compatability rather than turning half of their GPU off like Sony). 

 

 

Less tearing, higher resolution in dynamic resolution games, better framerates and shorter loading times are all possible with boost mode. 

if you ignore this part you might be right

 

Quote

 

Here, it's down to the platform holder to take ownership of compatibility issues, but the advantage is this: unlike PS4's boost mode, Scorpio theoretically allows for the full power of the new console to be deployed on older games.
 

 

 

[PaB]

7 minutes ago, sir shrew said:

The Pro is Pro(per) shit though, int it?

 

Like angel says I could flush £150 down the toilet on it and it wouldn't improve any of the games I currently play at 1080p. It's pointless for most 1080p users as Sony didn't have a strategy for supersampling because they wanted to flog 4K tellies.

 

And yeah it gives you a minimal frame rate performance on BF1 etc but watching the DF videos it isn't £150 worth of difference.  

 

They'd have been better of pumping the money into VR games.

 

I'd take HD rumble or VR over a modest fps bump when it comes to gaming advancements I'd actually appreciate.

All releases since November have a 4k mode, be that upscaled or checkerboarded, that means supersampling for 1080p or frame rate boosts. Plus 90% are HDR.  Lots of games have been patched, and those that haven't get boost mode. I think its safe to say  you are not speaking from a positon of knowledge here.

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

Just now, PeteBrant said:

All releases since November have a 4k mode, be that upscaled or checkerboarded. Plus 90% are HDR.  Lots of games have been patched, and those that haven't get boost mode. I think its safe to say  you are not speaking from a positon of knowledge here.

 

The Pro also has excellent internal upscaling, so it does make 1080p content look better in my experience. It's a great upgrade and well worth the £100 odd it cost me.

[Danster]

19 minutes ago, Gizamaluke said:

 

It's certainly a big draw to have the best version (without a 2 grand PC) of the best game ever.

 

Zelda is being released on the Bone!

 

[Vemsie]

2 minutes ago, sir shrew said:

The Pro is Pro(per) shit though, int it?

 

Like angel says I could flush £150 down the toilet on it and it wouldn't improve any of the games I currently play at 1080p. It's pointless for most 1080p users as Sony didn't have a strategy for supersampling because they wanted to flog 4K tellies.

 

And yeah it gives you a minimal frame rate performance on BF1 etc but watching the DF videos it isn't £150 worth of difference.  

That's not really true. I'm still on 1080p and it improves most games in pretty significant ways. Games like Hitman, Dishonored 2 and The Last Guardian run noticably better, a game like Nioh runs at a higher res in 60 fps and looks far better as a result, The Witness runs in true 1080p and with twice the AA etc. It's a nice machine, even on 1080p. And even though I'd rather have a Bloodborne Pro patch, Boost Mode is quite nice. YMMV but then again, 150 can be a lot of money to some, and little to others.

But like I said earlier, the Pro is half-baked compared to Scorpio. Not just because Scorpio is better tech, but also the entire mindset behind it. Improving backward compatibe games, supersampling everything instead of Sony's let's leave it up to the dev policy, including a 4K optical drive so you can actually play 4K discs on the thing, etc.
Sony has a big advantage on the exclusives front, but as someone who has a huge 360 collection, is making the jump to 4K and doesn't want a PC in the living room, the Scorpio is an enticing prospect. Give me 4K Cuphead and FROM Software's next games in 1080p/60 fps (or higher res) and I'm in.

 

[Disgraced Toblerone]

I'm so glad I didn't buy any console at launch for the first time since the Dreamcast.

 

PS4 pro now and Scorpio next autumn : yay.

[angel]

17 minutes ago, sir shrew said:

The Pro is Pro(per) shit though, int it?

 

Like angel says I could flush £150 down the toilet on it and it wouldn't improve any of the games I currently play at 1080p. It's pointless for most 1080p users as Sony didn't have a strategy for supersampling because they wanted to flog 4K tellies.

 

And yeah it gives you a minimal frame rate performance on BF1 etc but watching the DF videos it isn't £150 worth of difference.  

 

They'd have been better of pumping the money into VR games.

 

I'd take HD rumble or VR over a modest fps bump when it comes to gaming advancements I'd actually appreciate.

 

Eh? I didnt say any of that. It runs great, things like TLG run miles better on it, and boost mode can be applied to all your old catalogue. Its brilliant. It doesnt give a "minimal" improvement in frames, its dramatic and applies to all your games.

[Uncle Mike]

24 minutes ago, Clipper said:

if you ignore this part you might be right

 

Let's not get carried away though.

 

When they're talking about "Scorpio theoretically allows for the full power of the new console to be deployed on older games" they don't mean (unless, in fact, I'm the one who's misunderstood) that you're going to see lifechanging differences in most titles. It's not going to transform game code locked at 30fps max to a 60fps game. It's not going to transform 1080p code into 4k code.

 

But it does mean that they can deploy the full beast of the Scorpio to actually 100% achieve whatever goals were coded, as opposed to the limited way PS4 Pro tries to with boost mode. And, I guess, where a dev thought ahead (or where one delivers a patch) you could see higher framerate or resolution than the original. I'd expect that to be the exception, though.

 

I feel like I've written this a few times, but I'm really interested to see how the Pro and Scorpio fare relative to each other. The approach for each is quite different (release early, modest upgrade, modest price versus release later, major upgrade, major price), and I'm curious to see how they do. Is a modest upgrade and delivering it a year earlier (and possibly £100 cheaper) enough to offset the beast of Scorpio when it comes to console choices this year? Will MS have a huge suite of amazing exclusive (or noticeably better) titles in the shops this Xmas?

[Clipper]

Just now, Uncle Mike said:

 

Let's not get carried away though.

 

When they're talking about "Scorpio theoretically allows for the full power of the new console to be deployed on older games" they don't mean (unless, in fact, I'm the one who's misunderstood) that you're going to see lifechanging differences in most titles. It's not going to transform game code locked at 30fps max to a 60fps game. It's not going to transform 1080p code into 4k code.

 

But it does mean that they can deploy the full beast of the Scorpio to actually 100% achieve whatever goals were coded, as opposed to the limited way PS4 Pro tries to with boost mode. And, I guess, where a dev thought ahead (or where one delivers a patch) you could see higher framerate or resolution than the original. I'd expect that to be the exception, though.

 

Agreed and as I keep saying poeople should really read the article before blundering in with stuff like "it is just boost mode" or "there will need to be patches"

 

But yes you are right and the article does indeed say all of that in terms of what the existing game upgrade can and can't achieve with the power of Scorpio.

[RubberJohnny]

4 minutes ago, angel said:

Eh? I didnt say any of that. It runs great, things like TLG run miles better on it, and boost mode can be applied to all your old catalogue.

 

I don't think TLG is a great example of anything, game looks like the PS3 version, runs at like 15fps and maybe 25 if you "boost". Comes off as something that was built for the PS3's very specific architecture and has to be brute forced on anything else.

[PaB]

9 minutes ago, sir shrew said:

 

I have looked at the Titanfall 2 comparison shots on my 5K computer monitor. The difference was indiscernible unless you comb the thing with a magnifying glass.

 

So I play Siege and OW a lot right now - you're going to tell me the Pro checkerboard upscales them to 4K, and then they're super sampled back down to 1080p, that those games will look better on Pro. I expect the difference will be so minor (slightly less jaggies up close) as to be barely noticeable in motion.

There is limited benefit to a pro in 1080p. Same as there will be for Scorpio. 1080p is 1080p.  You may get more effects, more shinies, or better frame rate. But Scorpio and Pro come into their own with a 4K HDR Display.

[Isaac]

6 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

 Will MS have a huge suite of amazing exclusive (or noticeably better) titles in the shops the Xmas?

 

No.

[angel]

Just now, RubberJohnny said:

 

I don't think TLG is a great example of anything, game looks like the PS3 version, runs at like 15fps and maybe 25 if you "boost". Comes off as something that was built for the PS3's very specific architecture and has to be brute forced on anything else.

 

Nah I cant agree there, it had a trouble time but it was never ever properly running past 10fps on the ps3. I'm excited for scorpio and I love my pro.

[PaB]

4 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I don't think TLG is a great example of anything, game looks like the PS3 version, runs at like 15fps and maybe 25 if you "boost". Comes off as something that was built for the PS3's very specific architecture and has to be brute forced on anything else.

TLG is rock solid at 30fps on a Pro at 1080p. Or you can have it at 1890p where its generally 30 fps but there are  dips to 20-25 in places. It's also a stunning looking game

 

Don't know where you're getting "boost " from. TLG was native for Pro. Boost mode isn't used.

[layten]

2 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

Isn't that just for DX12 games, though?

So everything on the Bone/BoneS/Megabone then.

[HarryBizzle]

3 minutes ago, PC Master Race said:

So everything on the Bone/BoneS/Megabone then.

No need to get sarcy, I'm just asking.

So do all/most multiplatform games on Xbox One use DX12? And then something else for the PS4 versions?

[El Spatula]

Is there any games announced yet as MS seem to have given up on that aspect of the console.  Forza 18.4 and Halo 23 aside. 

 

[layten]

Just now, HarryBizzle said:

No need to get sarcy, I'm just asking.

So do all/most multiplatform games on Xbox One use DX12?

It's the APi of the machine now. The PS4 has it's own API that has nothing to to with DX and is more like OpenGL/Vulkan.

[Purin]

I for one cannot wait to play Halo 6 on this thing! 

[Wallace]

Sea of Thieves 47 

[Pob]

Regarding the price, I don't see the problem of releasing a premium product at a premium price when you've already got a mainstream variant on the market to entice people to your platform. Sure, kickstarting a new generation with an over-priced console has always been a mistake that MS, then Sony, then MS again paid for, but it's different now.

 

Sell to the hardcore for top dollar for the first 18 months, then bring it down to a more mainstream price as the components get cheaper. All the while you have the most powerful console on the market for people who care about that plus a cheaper alternative that plays the same games on the same subscription service with the same friends list.