E3 Sony - Finished

[Rev]

15 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Sigh.

 

I wonder what the first game to run like absolute arse on the PS4 Poors Edition will be.

 

GT Sport's my first bet.

 

And how many sites will review games on both. My guess: Few.

[Harrisown]

People don't think twice about upgrading a phone so a console shouldn't be any different.

maybe they will do a ps plus phone contract thing that gets you the ps4 and plus for a small monthly.

[Bojangle]

 

25 minutes ago, Harrisown said:

People don't think twice about upgrading a phone so a console shouldn't be any different.

There's a huge difference.

[Bojangle]

1 hour ago, macosx said:

Andrew House confirmed, can't see anyway they won't announce at E3. Hat video on lock.

 

Unless he's bluffing and it actually will be unveiled at E3, which probably won't be the case. 
 

Quote

However, in a move that may disappoint some fans, Mr House said that Sony would not be unveiling its new console next week and refused to say when or at what price the unit would go on sale

 

[Boozy The Clown]

They unveiled a console in Feb 2013 without showing it or announcing a price for it. Just lots of lies about graphics capabilities and launch day games.

 

 

[mdn2]

2 hours ago, Harrisown said:

People don't think twice about upgrading a phone so a console shouldn't be any different.

There's a massive difference. My phone goes everywhere with me and is used for everything. My console stays at home and I may use it a handful of hours a week for gaming. 

[Boozy The Clown]

5 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Why would they pretend to have the scoop and then add percentage chance of happening? Also 90% of Videogamer TV content is them taking the piss to boost their individual character "presence" or whatever... add to that the fact that the Sony have confirmed that they're not even showing the Playstation "Neo". Seems like a load of shit to me, but thanks for sharing? 

 

Edit: read the last part properly now, I see! Satire... woo. 

Ha ha ya fuckin' fanny.

[Harrisown]

4 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Yes, very good. I'm not really going to eat my hat and I was completely certain that this would simple be a version of the PS4 that features 4K up-scaling, to be marketed with Sony's 4K TV's. 

I still find it unbelievable that both Sony and Microsoft are working on mid-generation refreshes of their current consoles. It makes little sense, but it is happening. 

 

Well I guess you won't have to upgrade. They will make sure of that. There's probably a huge amount of reasons for doing an iteration mid cycle. The biggest being VR and keeping people away from the slippery slope of realising how damn cheap Steam games are.

[Yoshimax]

15 hours ago, Rev said:

 

And how many sites will review games on both. My guess: Few.

 

Digital Foundry are going to be like pigs in shit.

[Stanley]

We're going to need a bigger boat TV when that happens, PC vs PS4 vs XBOX ONE vs Neo vs Scorpio vs budget PC vs GTX1070/1080 and so on. 

[Dudley]

16 hours ago, Harrisown said:

People don't think twice about upgrading a phone so a console shouldn't be any different.

maybe they will do a ps plus phone contract thing that gets you the ps4 and plus for a small monthly.

 

I think Microsoft tried that a few years ago with the 360. I assume it was about as successful as me having not seen it since implies.

[Harrisown]

8 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

I think Microsoft tried that a few years ago with the 360. I assume it was about as successful as me having not seen it since implies.

To be fair the 360 was well at the end of its cycle when they did it. 

I also think it was a US only thing?

last gen lasted about 3-4 years too long to anything that gives the industry more momentum is fine by me.

[Dudley]

Whereas this generation apparently just lasts 3 years...

[Harrisown]

Not at all. As Sony has stated the new model is a higher end OPTION and will be sold alongside the original unit.

[Dudley]

And I believe that about as much as I believed the DS wasn't replacing the GameBoy.

 

This will go one of two ways

 

1 - The PS4+ sells poorly, people stop bothering to make their games better for it. (The "A1200" clause)

2 - It sells well and effectively replaces the old one, people will stop bothering to make games work well on the old one. (The "Hyrule Warriors 3DS" clause)

 

As a concept this has been tried before. A lot.  DSi, New 3DS, Spectrum 128k, Amstrad CPC Plus, Atari STE, Amiga 1200, N64 "Memory Expansion".  In every single case either the old machine died or, much more often, the new machine got bugger all in terms of enhanced games after the first flurry.

[Stanley]

53 minutes ago, Dudley said:

And I believe that about as much as I believed the DS wasn't replacing the GameBoy.

 

This will go one of two ways

 

1 - The PS4+ sells poorly, people stop bothering to make their games better for it. (The "A1200" clause)

2 - It sells well and effectively replaces the old one, people will stop bothering to make games work well on the old one. (The "Hyrule Warriors 3DS" clause)

 

As a concept this has been tried before. A lot.  DSi, New 3DS, Spectrum 128k, Amstrad CPC Plus, Atari STE, Amiga 1200, N64 "Memory Expansion".  In every single case either the old machine died or, much more often, the new machine got bugger all in terms of enhanced games after the first flurry.

Or 

 

3) they continue to support both, optimising games for the base PS4 and offering whatever 'free' upgrades the Neo allows, improved framerate, resolution, etc. 

 

Even if the Neo continues to sell at the rate PS4 is now it will be years before it has anywhere near the same install base. Developers will always target the bigger market.

[mushashi]

1 hour ago, Dudley said:

As a concept this has been tried before. A lot. 

 

You say it's been tried before, a lot, but every single one of those examples was half-arsed. We know the Sony mandate on this attempt, it is much more comprehensive in scope, they are going balls deep with it:

 

Quote

Sony seemingly acknowledges the need to integrate the two models of PlayStation 4 available simultaneously on the market - internally dubbed as 'Base' and 'Neo'. There will be no games exclusive to the Neo model, every title will be available on both, and there's no suggestion of VR-exclusive Neo modes at this point. Developers are prohibited from creating Neo-exclusive gameplay features, and enhancements are expected to be graphical and performance-based in nature. Gamers on both systems will be tied into the same ecosystem, meaning that users of both models will be competing against one another in online games. The user interface and PSN systems will also be identical.

 

These are the features Sony believe the PS4K will enhance over the PS4:

 

Quote

 

Higher frame-rates

More stable frame-rates

Improved graphics fidelity

Additional graphics features

 

 

Which are all the sort of things PCs with enough extra power over the PS4 get.

 

The way I see it, they'll attempt to do a hardware refresh a while after a new process node becomes economically viable, keep with AMD to ensure BC, sell it for a similar launch price, job done. Drop the oldest model after a few cycles to ensure you're not stretching the limits of what is feasible and aren't hindering progress too much.

[mushashi]

22 hours ago, Yoshimax said:

 

Anything with VR in the title.

 

Funnily enough, VR games are about the only thing you can say are guaranteed to run well on a console, they actually have a performance TRC, unlike normal games which do not.

[Dudley]

1 hour ago, Stanley said:

Or 

 

3) they continue to support both, optimising games for the base PS4 and offering whatever 'free' upgrades the Neo allows, improved framerate, resolution, etc. 

 

Even if the Neo continues to sell at the rate PS4 is now it will be years before it has anywhere near the same install base. Developers will always target the bigger market.

 

It's never happened before, I'm not remotely as optimistic as you this is any different.  It's exactly the same as New 3DS for example and already we have a big first party game that runs so badly on the original hardware that you can't even use the central feature of the hardware.

 

The way I see it, they'll attempt to do a hardware refresh a while after a new process node becomes economically viable, keep with AMD to ensure BC, sell it for a similar launch price, job done. Drop the oldest model after a few cycles to ensure you're not stretching the limits of what is feasible and aren't hindering progress too much.

 

So number 2 in my list then.

[Stanley]

7 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

It's never happened before, I'm not remotely as optimistic as you this is any different.  It's exactly the same as New 3DS for example and already we have a big first party game that runs so badly on the original hardware that you can't even use the central feature of the hardware.

Yeah you're right in that it's never happened before, these are Uncharted waters (excuse the pun). In theory though I don't see there being major performance problems. We already have PC games running across a perplexing amount of setups, and this is just two. I believe it will be stuff like 30/60 fps, improved draw distance, resolution, lighting/shadows. Basically the same kind of stuff we see on PC. 

[Dudley]

The situation I'm worried about though is people getting lazy and it being 30fps on PS4+.

 

At which point the PS4 will do 10.

 

But the existence of the PC might just save it in that it'll literally be a case of 2 pre-built graphics configs for an existing engine.

 

Underwhelming reason to buy a new machine though.

[Stanley]

Yeah if they start targeting, say, 30 fps on Neo then we'll run into problems so hopefully there'll be fairly strict ground rules about what is acceptable performance on the base console.

 

If it means we start seeing games at 60 fps as standard on Neo though, that alone I can see being a draw for many.

[Qazimod]

Alt (EU blog) stream source

 

Other methods of watching (pretty much covered in the OP anyway, but still)

[Nespresso]

Uhh, just because a game runs at 30fps on the Neo does not mean it will run even lower than that on the standard PS4. All they would have to do is turn off some bells and whistles really.

[Yoshimax]

9 hours ago, VN1X said:

Uhh, just because a game runs at 30fps on the Neo does not mean it will run even lower than that on the standard PS4. All they would have to do is turn off some bells and whistles really.

 

Yes but then the neo owners will be in that stupid multi format comparison thread laughing at peasants with the base console because there aren't enough bushes in the fields or some other trite pish.

[Mr. Gerbik]

That is what that thread is for.

[Stanley]

10 hours ago, VN1X said:

Uhh, just because a game runs at 30fps on the Neo does not mean it will run even lower than that on the standard PS4. All they would have to do is turn off some bells and whistles really.

Umm, I'm unsure about that. I'd like 60fps to become an industry standard. I think it's far more beneficial than a few extra graphical bells and whistles. Hopefully these new consoles have that as their aim and anything less becomes unacceptable in future.

[Guest]

I haven't been keeping up, but wasn't the PS4 supposed to be 60fps for most games? I'm sure I remember people saying that back at the start of this gen.

[Alex W.]

It was 60 on a bunch of games where the Xbone was 30 but I don't think it was ever assumed all PS4 games would be 60. 1080p, yes.

[HarryBizzle]

1 hour ago, Stanley said:

Umm, I'm unsure about that. I'd like 60fps to become an industry standard. I think it's far more beneficial than a few extra graphical bells and whistles. Hopefully these new consoles have that as their aim and anything less becomes unacceptable in future.

 

The thing is though, given £400 odd quid to spend on either a Neo or upgrading my PC, I'd always go with the latter, purely because with the Neo you'll always be at the behest of the devs. If they want their game to run at 30 fps on that shiny new console you've forked out for, it will do, and if they can't be bothered to optimise it properly, then I hope you like playing at 27fps.

 

The first game that actually runs worse on Neo is going to (rightly) cause outcry.