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Death Stranding - Kojima at it again


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59 minutes ago, carlospie said:

If we all just stopped and looked around at one another, in real life not shitty Facebook life, we would realise that just a simple hello, wave or kind deed can be what they need to help them get through the day. This is the way of the Kojima. 
 

I almost see the game as hugely ironic, youl go three miles out of the way on the delivery mission to help someone in a game, but you won’t sit and read a book with your kid or give an hours time to take your elderly neighbour shopping. We are addicted to the social media loop of ‘likes’ and a lot of our whole intention these days is to do things to gain the attention and likes of others. Look at when you go to a concert, about 90 percent of people now film it on their phone rather than even watch it. 
 

I may be hugely wrong but that’s how I perceive the meaning of the game, the world has become completely selfish and isolated with everyone living most of their lives online or getting that satisfaction from a digital number. Norman is the person to break that link, to do things that physically help others towards a common goal, rather than doing things simply for gratification online.

 

That's all well and good but players are building these constructs for other players for the likes, for which they get rewarded. If you got no in-game reward for helping other players other than your own sense of satisfaction then perhaps the point would be less muddy. But as it is, Kojima is wagging his finger at the reliance of society on validation through social media metrics while dangling carrot after carrot in front of the player via the medium of....likes from strangers on the internet.

 

It's either a muddled contradiction he hasn't managed to reconcile or it's so drenched in irony that the sincerity of the supposed message ends up getting lost.

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36 minutes ago, Majora said:

 

That's all well and good but players are building these constructs for other players for the likes, for which they get rewarded. If you got no in-game reward for helping other players other than your own sense of satisfaction then perhaps the point would be less muddy. But as it is, Kojima is wagging his finger at the reliance of society on validation through social media metrics while dangling carrot after carrot in front of the player via the medium of....likes from strangers on the internet.

 

It's either a muddled contradiction he hasn't managed to reconcile or it's so drenched in irony that the sincerity of the supposed message ends up getting lost.

 

But how would he make his point if this feature wasn't in the game? He has it there to actually show you that it is meaningless. I have never once stopped to think how much I like all those...likes. They play no part in my enjoyment of the game, which is the point he is trying to make: that you don't need to depend on likes and such to validate your worth to others. Simply helping and receiving help to get through is enough and more important.

 

(Assuming he is making a point about all that of course).

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Well that was interesting...

Spoiler

"Aren't you tired of the grind, isn't this what you've been waiting for?" 

 

I was indeed tired of the grind, to the point of giving up last night. I'm still not convinced, but I can't honestly say this hasn't piqued my interest a little more now. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Majora said:

 

That's all well and good but players are building these constructs for other players for the likes, for which they get rewarded. If you got no in-game reward for helping other players other than your own sense of satisfaction then perhaps the point would be less muddy. But as it is, Kojima is wagging his finger at the reliance of society on validation through social media metrics while dangling carrot after carrot in front of the player via the medium of....likes from strangers on the internet.

 

It's either a muddled contradiction he hasn't managed to reconcile or it's so drenched in irony that the sincerity of the supposed message ends up getting lost.

It’s the job of the artist to make you think, that’s all. 

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I haven’t been able to play it yet, but the posts here - both those really loving it and those somewhere near the opposite - have been a nice reminder why I like this forum more than most other online places for game discussion. Can’t wait to drive in.

 

Having said that, an accusation I keep seeing elsewhere online is “if this wasn’t a Kojima game....” As powerful as branding and names are, I don’t think that’s a particularly thoughtful line of reasoning - at least it especially doesn’t match the kind of milieu of a place like this. Sure, a game like Death Stranding probably wouldn’t get made in the first place without his name, but that says more about the state of big budget media - now that it exists I think those finding they like it here are mostly capable of realising whether they are feeling real emotions about what is going on in front of them. I mean, we might be interested in a new Hideo Kojima game in the same way we’d be interested in something involving Fumito Ueda (Ico) or Tetsuya Mizuguchi (Rez) or whoever - given track records of a certain kind of freshness. But like anyone here I’d easily admit it if a new product bearing their names was actually really dull (though might be inclined to give some elements the benefit of the doubt if I felt the creators were generally thoughtful.) But apart from that the fan loyalty thing doesn’t make sense at all, does it? 

 

And the way it has been expressed here hasn’t been quite like this, but when I did waste time looking at other responses elsewhere the bizarre accusation that anyone enjoying (the obviously boring) experience was only doing so “because” it was a Hideo Kojima game was repeated way too often...for such a patronising and boring idea. 

 

That was a long sentence. I also need an editor. ;)

 

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11 minutes ago, Bacon Horsemeat said:

 

The norm being wanting to have fun?

 

That is a bit subjective, wouldn't you say? Maybe for some fun is actually trying to understand the meaning or the story of this game and how it all comes together, rather than focusing on its systems separately?

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10 minutes ago, Bacon Horsemeat said:

The norm being wanting to have fun?

 

Yeah, basically. That's exactly it. 

 

It's far from the first game to put the 'experience' before traditionally arcade or competitive ideas of fun (and that's more or less what I play games for, shmups and fighting games are my favourite) but it's probably the biggest ever production to do so. Arguably, RDR2 did similar but I'd say that has many more 'fun' gamey systems and rewards going on, even though I didn't personally enjoy its mechanics in any way. I treated it more like I'm playing Death Stranding, soak it up, wander round, do stuff when I feel like it. It's not fun necessarily but it's interaction. I know that sounds wank. 

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57 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

But how would he make his point if this feature wasn't in the game? He has it there to actually show you that it is meaningless. I have never once stopped to think how much I like all those...likes. They play no part in my enjoyment of the game, which is the point he is trying to make: that you don't need to depend on likes and such to validate your worth to others. Simply helping and receiving help to get through is enough and more important.

 

(Assuming he is making a point about all that of course).

 

I'm already seeing, elsewhere, people bragging about how a bridge they built got 70,000 likes, for example, and the game encourages you to gain likes because they give you tangible benefits in-game. So the game itself is promoting likes as something to actively desire while simultaneously decrying a society that seeks validation through likes rather than real human connection. 

 

Personally I just can't help but think the meesage would be more effectively conveyed if you didn't receive anything for helping others, if indeed the message of the game is going through hardship to connect with those around you and ignoring the superficiality of watching numbers climb. How the game would feed back to the player that others are still making use of their hard work is another question, admittedly.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, spanx said:

Question. When you take out a bunch of MULEs, do they stay took out?

 

 

 

Yes, and if you clear them out from an area entirely then you’ll start to see friendly porters making deliveries across the wasteland in their stead. If you call out a greeting to these friendlies with the touchpad they’ll often give you an item in return.

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31 minutes ago, Majora said:

 

I'm already seeing, elsewhere, people bragging about how a bridge they built got 70,000 likes, for example, and the game encourages you to gain likes because they give you tangible benefits in-game. So the game itself is promoting likes as something to actively desire while simultaneously decrying a society that seeks validation through likes rather than real human connection. 

 

Personally I just can't help but think the meesage would be more effectively conveyed if you didn't receive anything for helping others, if indeed the message of the game is going through hardship to connect with those around you and ignoring the superficiality of watching numbers climb. How the game would feed back to the player that others are still making use of their hard work is another question, admittedly.

 

 

 

I don't doubt, but aren't they the ones missing the point, like a great movie or a great book they just don't get? Or maybe not? A message of an artist can't really get through to all people anyway.

 

As an example, how many people here play this for the numbers and the likes? 

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I think there is something cool for me to getting feedback in your game that something you made Is being useful rather than the validation of worthless likes.BB and the ingame NPC’s even give you likes. 
 

Do you think the main mission structure has been designed to be a boring tortuous grind as some have said? I’m finding it a way to experience the game works rather than a slog. I found traversal in RDR2 more of a chore tbh.

 

Also the product placement hasn’t got me; just carried two shopping bags back from Sainsbury’s and bought a can of red bull. :)

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Damn, the more I play this game the more I think it's something incredibly special. I'm still not willing to forgive it for it's clunky UI interfaces but there is a joy in taking things slowly and trying to plan out every aspect of he journey ahead.

 

I'm now 13+ hours in and I'm REALLY weirded out because of the 5 "beginners' guides I've seen on Youtube they ALL show things I've not seen yet. In my head I'm seeing this as a 20 hour game because of the infamous 'first ten hours were boring, second ten hours were even more boring' (something like that) journalist quote. Yet I'm 13 hours in and it seems I've hardly scratched the surface (more or less just started chapter 3). Right now it feels like this is going to be more like 40-50 hours. 

 

A new frustration I'm feeling is the need to be slow and not play in huge chunks of several hours BUT I'm worried about story stuff being spoilered so am trying to reach the end more quickly than I would like with this game. I think the ideal way to play this game would be like 1-2 orders a play session. 

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6 minutes ago, Hubertus Bigend said:

When your PS4 controller starts crying at you like a baby through the speaker, and you have to soothe it by tilting it from side to side, you just know - Kojima is a genius auteur.

 

I've not had noises out of the controller yet and presumed it was disabled as default? Did you enable it? Also I wasn't enjoying the motion control of rocking the baby so adjusted it in the controls (it sets it to the R2 button)

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1 hour ago, Alan Stock said:

Player structures become a much bigger part of the game in Episode 2, but one thing I hadn't realized (due to the slightly misleading first episode) is that whenever you enter a new region it's essentially a blank slate. Until you reach the main destination in a new region, you can't see or use player structures, signs etc. You're on your own. This is good because the atmosphere and tension of venturing into the unknown isn't spoiled by neon player signs, hints or structures cluttering up the environment. But once they're unlocked in that region, now you have access to all manner of handy shortcuts, advice and a feeling of community as players help each other via structures and signs. The single player narrative isn't spoiled by the community stuff and you still get the Souls-like sense of camaraderie after that first exploration.

 

 

Yeah this is a really good point to make, took me a while to figure this out too. Your entire post there was brilliant, thanks.

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28 minutes ago, Hubertus Bigend said:

Went back, instantly regretted it. Seriously, how THE FUCK do I complete order no. 14 / get to Port Knot City? Dick-sucking stupid game.

 

I don’t care if Sam dies, I don’t care if BB gets aborted - fuck it all to hell. Nonsensical crap. My neighbours probably think I’m watching child porn with all this terrified baby wailing going on. I give up and don’t blame Edge for doing the same.


You need plenty of grenades (three or four packs maybe) and a couple of blood bags. Just take the fuckers out. 

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I can see why people liked it more after it opens up, but it is much more “regular open world game” now. Which is a nice change of pace, but it does slightly lack the tension of the early game 

 

Spoiler

Although the mission just north of the craftsman in the ruined shelter was a belter. Lovely design and really tense. 

 

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Still early on in the game at the moment in terms of package deliveries. Currently lugging something upto a windfarm but I managed to samage the cargo and the game has saved. You can repair cargo but it seems only at distribution centres with spray cans. Unless there is another way? Dont fancy trapsing all the way back to the nearest DC... :(

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3 minutes ago, Thor said:

Just point it at your-bloody-self! There's a prompt on the screen when you equip the spray, Hold L2, then press Square to point at yourself, then spray. Easy. You muppets! :lol:

Well the fact that I didn't equip it before I left the DC didn't help :D Restarted from an older save and done it :)

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