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Football Thread 2016/17


Plissken
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The last English manager to win the title was Howard Wilkinson and the only English manager to win a top flight title anywhere was Steve McClaren with Twente. 

 

There are also a lot more foreign managers in the Championship than there used to be as well. 

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The media is only bothered about coaching methods from the coaches who've won at the top level, they're not fascinated by the exact methods themselves. When some of the most successful coaches in the world arrive, they're curious about any things gleened from the players they're interviewing about their methods that might have played a part in their success. If Dyche over performs with this group of players and lands a Europa league spot, his methods will be celebrated too. If they only get 13 points for the whole season those same methods that might have landed a Europa league spot will highlighted to the same degree, albeit negatively. 

 

I was surprised by Dyche's rant, and Alladyce's inferrance even at his England manager press conference that he was overlooked for top jobs, and the way the media phrase it as 'he never won anything but was never given the chance', as though his team every season didn't have as much chance as anyone to win the League cup and FA cup. Pochettino got the Spurs job based on 1 and a half seasons with Southampton, and how much he impressed in immediately embarrassing the top sides, bringing youth through, establishing the side as contenders for a european place, making a star of Lallana, and then with Spurs nearly winning the league. All in the space of a few years, compared to the decade+ other English managers have had jumping around from mediocre club to another, tasked with just being not as bad. Brendan Rodgers got the Liverpool job based on how he got his team playing passing football. Neither manager even won anything while in the premier league, Pochettino gave up on the cups early while at Southampton, and his overall win percentage only 38%. 

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The whole overreaction to Guardiola banning pizza and Dyches comments is a perfect example of why interviews with most people involved in football are so bloody boring. There seems to be a desperation among some elements of the press for Guardiola to come in and be a Wenger type figure who completely changes the league but the likelihood of that happening is slim at best. Hyping up getting rid of pizza as some sort of masterstroke typifies that. It says more about how much Man City was drifting the last few years that getting rid of pizza was even an option. Si King and Dave Myers could have told you that maybe it isn't the best food for athletes to be eating, you shouldn't need to pay a manager £15 million to tell you that.

 

I think the reason Dyches comments received so much attention is that most of the people at his press conference didn't like getting called on the simple truth that much of what they write is brain dead shite. Any gobshite could knock out a couple of hundred words about how Klopp, with his totes revolutionary continental ways, having triple training sessions would make Liverpool dead fit like, because y'know like running is good for you and helps you, like, lose weight and stuff. Articulating how a team is changing tactically seems to be too much effort so the focus is on fluff. The attempt to paint his words as xenophobia just shows he was right.  

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As always, a manager says something in general and people want to say it is about him.  The point is that Dyche, Howe, Monk and other English managers have been doing the things that foreign managers - Guardiola, Klopp etc - are praised for.  When Wenger arrived, his changing the players diets was seen as revolutionary, so why was Guardiola praised for cutting out pizzas and Mars Bars when English players and managers have been taking the lesson and employing it for the best part of a decade?

 

Dyche is right about 4-4-2, two seasons ago he was called old fashioned for employing it.  Next thing you know, Ranieri wins the Premier League with it.  Also Clarets were promoted in 2014-15 using a variant of Klopps "gegenpressing" which I think he went over to Germany to look at.  Howe and Monk play a continental, possession based style.  Dyche goes for an Athletico type counter-attack.  Dyche has had a small squad running the furthest for longest for two and a bit seasons, Conte is praised for making his squad do the same thing.  Klopp was quoted this weekend as expecting Burnley players to be vomiting 75% of the way through the match due to the effort they were putting in.  Why?  Because their manager is English and doesn't know how to do fitness?  (I understand Klopp was being complimentary, by the way, but y'know.)  

 

I think Dyche is a bit pissed off as being lumped in with Pulis and Pardew as well.  His point is that there is a very good crop of young, English, managers working who are actually as far... advanced (?) as Wenger, Guardiola or Mourinho in terms of tactics and fitness.  If you spread the net a little wider, I have a lot of time for Ronald Koeman, Pochettino, Chris Coleman and I have a sneaking feeling that Wagner might do good things at Huddersfield.  The focus on "super managers" ignores the work being do by those.

 

I suppose - as Andre Gray found out this weekend - anything you say at any time will be used to fill some column space or other.

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On 22 August 2016 at 10:58, Timmo said:

Great article. 

 

Why is there not more fury about Diego Costa? Chelsea have won two games with winners from him and he should have been sent off in both. I was seething and I'm neutral. 

 

No one cares about Chelsea and he is a perfect fit for the club, horrible club with horrible player is just the norm.

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Game over now in Warsaw, Legia equalising in injury time. Credit to Dundalk though, they wouldn't have been expected to make a game of it. Just lacking the quality to turn their lead into sustained pressure.

 

The Europa League won't be easy for them but simply being there is achievement in itself.

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Andre Gray has been charged for those offensive tweets people were dredging up from a few years back then. On one hand it's right that he should face consequences for something he did, and I highly doubt his claim that he's this massively changed person since 2012 and is no longer a deeply horrible homophobe.

 

On the other hand though this seems a bit selective from the FA and more like they just want to be seen to be reacting to something because it became a story. I can imagine they won't be consistent in enforcing this type of thing at all and it seems like it's opening a can of worms.

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The FA have to be seen to react though to those tweets coming to light - irrespective of how old they are. Its why I think they'll go with something like a fine and suspended ban (on proviso he doesn't offend again)

 

I imagine there are a lot of people now going back thru tweet histories of young players or those who have recently signed for Prem teams to see what they can dredge up.

 

 

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On 22/08/2016 at 21:15, Plissken said:

I have a sneaking feeling that Wagner might do good things at Huddersfield.

 

He's already done good things, absolutely night and day difference between the way he works and the merry-go-round of identikit English managers we'd had before him. The attitude and fitness levels of the squad is unrecognisable from previous years.

 

How far he can take us is another thing entirely though. Financially we're at a massive disadvantage what with ex-Premiership teams (Newcastle spent £20m in one day in the summer which will be more than we've paid out in transfer fees in our history) and those who are 'going for it' but as your own team has proved, it can be done without being silly about it. All things considered a top half finish and he's a hero.

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