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Star Trek Discovery - S3 streaming now - Everything Was Burnham


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9 hours ago, Monkeyboy said:

To repeat what others have said, I don't give a shit about any of them.

 

 

I still can't quite believe we've had effectively the same bridge crew for three years now and, Detmer aside, I still don't know their names. On the occasions when they have bothered to gave them a name and personality (Airiam, Nahn) it's usually been as a precursor to killing them off. As a crew they even managed to have several key scenes in the Die Hard episode this season and still came out the other side without any kind of individual identities. Literally nothing you could describe as a personality trait in any way, for any of them.

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1 hour ago, Garwoofoo said:

 

I still can't quite believe we've had effectively the same bridge crew for three years now and, Detmer aside, I still don't know their names. On the occasions when they have bothered to gave them a name and personality (Airiam, Nahn) it's usually been as a precursor to killing them off. As a crew they even managed to have several key scenes in the Die Hard episode this season and still came out the other side without any kind of individual identities. Literally nothing you could describe as a personality trait in any way, for any of them.

 

There’s no downtime on the show dedicated to getting to know anything about the characters.

 

If you think of the series regulars in DS9, TNG, Voyager and even Enterprise, see how many you can remember firstly a surname and then a first name. Then try it with Discovery.
 

In all those older shows, despite largely being an ‘enemy of the week’ format, they always had a scene in Ten Forward, Quark’s, at Archer’s dinner table, or in Neelix’s mess hall, or any of the Doctors’ medical bays, where a bit of character exposition went on and you got to know a bit more about the crew members. We’ve had a couple of superficial bits here and there, but with a season-long storyline there should be a bit more room to breath. I blame the spore drive - instantaneous travel, and straight back into the ‘action’, whereas the old ship-based shows would have the ship go to warp, someone would say “Nine hours to destination at this speed”, they’d all fuck off to the pub for a televised chat, and we’d get to know them.

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3 hours ago, Jammy said:

 

There’s no downtime on the show dedicated to getting to know anything about the characters.

 

If you think of the series regulars in DS9, TNG, Voyager and even Enterprise, see how many you can remember firstly a surname and then a first name. Then try it with Discovery.
 

In all those older shows, despite largely being an ‘enemy of the week’ format, they always had a scene in Ten Forward, Quark’s, at Archer’s dinner table, or in Neelix’s mess hall, or any of the Doctors’ medical bays, where a bit of character exposition went on and you got to know a bit more about the crew members. We’ve had a couple of superficial bits here and there, but with a season-long storyline there should be a bit more room to breath. I blame the spore drive - instantaneous travel, and straight back into the ‘action’, whereas the old ship-based shows would have the ship go to warp, someone would say “Nine hours to destination at this speed”, they’d all fuck off to the pub for a televised chat, and we’d get to know them.

it is interesting to watch the TNG bluray set extras as they cover this. From season 3 on Michael Piller said that an episode had to always be about a show character - the enemy/alien of the week is the basic plot but the episode is a Troi episode or a Data episode or a Picard episode etc. Watching season 3/4 with that in mind is eye opening when you realise that episodes that you never thought were an X character episode really are if you take the plot/story and boil it down. Piller's view was that the alien of the week is a catalyst it can't be about them because we don't care about them and they'll be gone in 45 mins... he pointed to this being one of the flaws with TOS and indeed Season 1/2 of TNG.

 

Even Best of both worlds part one is really about Riker and Picard and how they both handle leadership. Now I am sure there are exceptions to this but I can't think of many/any off the top of my head. Hollow Pursuits is about a new character so technically breaks Piller's rule I suppose. The episode First Contact is about how Starfleet interacts with new races and it is hard to see it as a character episode - a Riker episode is the best fit for that.

 

The flaw with Disco is that it focuses too muhc on one character and that character has to be involved in everything.

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You really have to give a lot of credit to that writing pool on the older shows. The TNG episode Lower Decks - a group we haven’t met before except for Ensign Sito for about 15 minutes in an academy episode, and yet at the end of that 45 minutes I had more of a connection with them than I have with the Disco crew after 3 seasons.

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4 hours ago, Clipper said:

it is interesting to watch the TNG bluray set extras as they cover this. From season 3 on Michael Piller said that an episode had to always be about a show character - the enemy/alien of the week is the basic plot but the episode is a Troi episode or a Data episode or a Picard episode etc. Watching season 3/4 with that in mind is eye opening when you realise that episodes that you never thought were an X character episode really are if you take the plot/story and boil it down. Piller's view was that the alien of the week is a catalyst it can't be about them because we don't care about them and they'll be gone in 45 mins... he pointed to this being one of the flaws with TOS and indeed Season 1/2 of TNG.

 

Even Best of both worlds part one is really about Riker and Picard and how they both handle leadership. Now I am sure there are exceptions to this but I can't think of many/any off the top of my head. Hollow Pursuits is about a new character so technically breaks Piller's rule I suppose. The episode First Contact is about how Starfleet interacts with new races and it is hard to see it as a character episode - a Riker episode is the best fit for that.

 

The flaw with Disco is that it focuses too muhc on one character and that character has to be involved in everything.


That’s all interesting to know. 
 

Discovery completely blew it for me when this season they went to the Trill planet, and instead of taking the doctor, they made a point of getting him to ask Burnham to go in his place because “reasons”. 

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It seems the actors in Discovery are not being given the chance to make the characters their own. 

 

The TOS, TNG and DS9 cast with a bit of cajoling and the odd nag were able gently nudge the writers to mold their characters into the solid fleshed out characters that people love. 

 

That way of working worked so well that the actors ended up being confident enough to direct their peers in later episodes of the show.

 

I think that kind of background stuff really helps with the feel of the stuff that is seen up on the screen. 

 

The poor Discovery crew seem to be just flailing around in the wind. Too scared to pipe up incase the Kurtzamaniacs write a lens flare filled pew-pew death for their character for speaking up. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Death's Head said:

This bit of trivia came up on my Google notifications today:

 

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/star-trek-discovery-season-4-cardassians-canon-ds9/amp

 

(If you don't want to click, basically it seems the Cardassians have joined the Federation. Which again just rams home how uninterested Discovery was in actually exploring the future they'd jumped into).

 

Keeping up with the Cardassians spin-off announced in 3, 2, 1....

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The music writers on the Chart Music Podcast were talking about the death of the critical music press in the mid-nineties. They say around that time record companies only gave access to bands if they gave favourable reviews to the other artists on their label. So for access to Oasis or Blur, or advertising revenue from the ads they might place Melody Maker and the like had to toe the line and watch what they wrote. 

 

Some bands said they probably could have done with the criticism for them to understand what they were doing wrong  :lol:

 

I think maybe a similar thing is happening to Discovery. The big sites like Den of Geek and others are afraid to lose access to the sneak peeks maybe, and definitely afraid to lose revenue from CBS' advertising banners. 

 

I think Kurtzman and his ilk have been told to never to read below the line. To never to read the comments and to let their social media PR types deal with all that stuff to shield Kurtzman's creativity ego. When really his creativity ego needs smashing. 

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So - against my better judgement - I watched the final three episodes of Discovery, which are effectively a three-parter anyway.

 

And... I quite enjoyed them? Yes I know, I'm surprised too. But although there was still a lot of nonsense in there, in the final episode in particular, it kind of worked as an actual story in a way that Discovery so often fails to do. There was a clear antagonist, a clear threat, everyone had something to do, you knew what they were trying to achieve. It slowed down enough to make the character stuff actually work. The Kelpian stuff was quite touching in its way, Burnham didn't save everyone every single time... it was perfectly serviceable, if silly, sci-fi. It was certainly better than the incoherent nonsense that finished off S2, where I didn't really know or care what was happening; or indeed the final episodes of Picard.

 

Overall I think season 3 has been a net win for Discovery. We've got rid of Shit Spock, beardy fake Klingon dude and Space Hitler, and replaced them with Book, Adira and Admiral Vance - all of whom I genuinely like. Despite a catastrophic lull in the middle section, and two excruciating mirror universe episodes, it managed to tell a fairly coherent story that didn't tie itself in knots trying to fit in with established canon. I wouldn't say it was good, exactly, but if you took the first two episodes, and the last three episodes, you've got the making of something that's at least half-decent.

 

I dunno. Maybe I'll give season 4 a chance after all.

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Just binge watched S3 this week. Fucking loved it.

 

I actually skipped S2 based on how poor S1 was. Maybe it was the future setting that made me more incentivised to like it. All  the homages to previous Treks like the new Voyager. It's certainly a different style from previous Star Treks, and has its own brand of cheese which they have toned down a lot since S1. Definitely interested to see how the weak Federation rebuilds itself in future seasons. They've set it up really well for S4.

 

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On 14/01/2021 at 16:56, Death's Head said:

This bit of trivia came up on my Google notifications today:

 

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/star-trek-discovery-season-4-cardassians-canon-ds9/amp

 

(If you don't want to click, basically it seems the Cardassians have joined the Federation. Which again just rams home how uninterested Discovery was in actually exploring the future they'd jumped into).

 

Its been over 800 years. In the space of 100 years, in human history we've had allies become enemies we've went to war with, and back to best buddies again.

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On 14/01/2021 at 22:59, Papaya Dance said:

He's pulling the same face I'd pull if someone bought me one of these.

 

Is that really the best, most inspiring Tilly quote they could find?

received_200763651723029.jpeg

It was straight choice between this and “This is the power of math, people !”

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On 14/01/2021 at 22:59, Papaya Dance said:

He's pulling the same face I'd pull if someone bought me one of these.

 

Is that really the best, most inspiring Tilly quote they could find?

received_200763651723029.jpeg

 

I just can't imagine any human being purchasing and wearing this.

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I fell asleep watching this and when I woke up there was ten minutes of people grunting at each other and leaping around unconvincingly and screaming and kicking and throwing each other over tables and going rahhhhhhhhhhh and grunting some more and god I miss Star Trek. 

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On 15/01/2021 at 21:00, Garwoofoo said:

 

 

Overall I think season 3 has been a net win for Discovery. We've got rid of Shit Spock, beardy fake Klingon dude and Space Hitler, and replaced them with Book, Adira and Admiral Vance 

 

After reading this it took me a full 5 minutes to remember who Adira was. 

 

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3 hours ago, JamesC said:

 

After reading this it took me a full 5 minutes to remember who Adira was. 

 

 

Is that the Trill who Stamets and the doctor love like a family member for no discernable reason?

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4 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Is that the Trill who Stamets and the doctor love like a family member for no discernable reason?

This was explained.  Stammets loves her because she talks to herself.  Dr loves her because Stammets loves her.

 

This is a sub-text.

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4 minutes ago, Don Wiskerando said:

This was explained.  Stammets loves her because she talks to herself.  Dr loves her because Stammets loves her.

 

This is a sub-text.

 

Discovery writers, yesterday.

 

 

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