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Star Trek Discovery - S3 streaming now - Everything Was Burnham


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7 hours ago, Spartan said:

 

Yet another season long story about a galactic threat that can only be resolved by this largely incompetent crew. What's this, the 3rd or 4th one now?

 

 

Picard was the worst for this - they had the perfect setup for a series of episodic adventures about an old codger travelling around the galaxy seeing how things had changed, then blew it all on Giant Metal Space Snakes. Absolute gibberish.

 

Lower Decks nailed the episodic structure though so while Discovery is beyond saving, there's still hope for their other shows. Maybe.

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I don't think the season arc structure is the issue, it's simply that it's bloody awful.

 

Season arcs work just fine in loads of shows, including The Expanse. Obviously episodic stories work great too, like they do in The Orville. The link between the two is good writing, and I imagine that a change in format for Discovery would just result in a season of terrible episodic stories.

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43 minutes ago, Mogster said:

I don't think the season arc structure is the issue, it's simply that it's bloody awful.

 

Season arcs work just fine in loads of shows, including The Expanse. Obviously episodic stories work great too, like they do in The Orville. The link between the two is good writing, and I imagine that a change in format for Discovery would just result in a season of terrible episodic stories.

 

I just don't think Star Trek lends itself to season arc's, the whole show is supposed to be about adventures in space! The franchise is built on an episodic structure right from the start with TOS. TNG continued that trend and excelled at it, getting great sci fi writers in to make some episodes that still stand the test of time even all these years later. DS9 arguable bucked this trend in later seasons but that had a competent writing team behind it and had a solid foundation. VOY took it to extremes, resetting everything every episode, so there is a balance to be maintained I'd admit. Look at how Enterprise improved in its last season when they finally dumped all the overarching Time Cold War plots. 

 

3 seasons in and I can barely name a handful of its crew on Discovery, that's just incompetent writing. There's been fleeting moments where its good but they are quickly thrown out, every "guest" Captain has been the best thing about each season, Isaacs, Ansel, Jones' promotion but now we are stuck with the worst character of them all, Burnham, as the new Captain, a character that breaks down into tears in seemingly every episode. Nobody involved appears to have ever watched an episode of Star Trek.

 

And as for Picard, jesus 

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1 hour ago, Spartan said:

DS9 arguable bucked this trend in later seasons but that had a competent writing team behind it and had a solid foundation.

Quite. :D

 

Star Trek is traditionally an episodic show, sure, but that doesn't mean every Star Trek series needs to do the same thing. Some of the criticism levelled at Voyager at the time was precisely that it was just a rehash of TNG, when the concept leant itself far better to an ongoing story arc. I remember Enterprise's third season being praised for doing exactly what Voyager should have done.

 

Obviously now that more time has passed a "rehash of TNG" is a lot more desirable. The Orville excelled at this, and there's always that faint glimmer of hope that Strange New Worlds can do the same. However that doesn't mean there shouldn't also be an attempt at something more like DS9 in structure. We've got three live action Star Trek shows going on at the same time after all.

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DS9 was almost entirely episodic in structure though. Some of those episodes pushed the background story of the Dominion War forward but for the most part they were still mostly standalone, at least until the ten-episode push that finished the whole thing off. 80% of DS9 episodes don't have any connection to the over-arching story at all, or at best they use it as very light background material.

 

Enterprise S3 was the only time that era of Trek tried to do proper serialisation as we understand it today (a single storyline running across every episode in the season) and even then it went off on far more one-off tangents than either Discovery or Picard have ever done.

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2 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

DS9 was almost entirely episodic in structure though. Some of those episodes pushed the background story of the Dominion War forward but for the most part they were still mostly standalone, at least until the ten-episode push that finished the whole thing off. 80% of DS9 episodes don't have any connection to the over-arching story at all, or at best they use it as very light background material.

 

Enterprise S3 was the only time that era of Trek tried to do proper serialisation as we understand it today (a single storyline running across every episode in the season) and even then it went off on far more one-off tangents than either Discovery or Picard have ever done.

Sure, but those tangents were possible due to the longer season lengths requiring some amount of padding. I don't think you could do what those shows did without a similarly long season.

 

My point though was that the quality of Discovery as a show was not down to it going for season long story arcs. Loads of shows use the same structure and do it very well, sometimes over several seasons. There is absolutely no reason why this structure couldn't work for a show set in the Star Trek universe.

 

One of the main issues with Discovery is that its story arcs have been fundamentally rubbish, meaning we've had to endure the same rubbish story week on week. Episodic stories would maybe have helped in the sense that we'd have probably enjoyed the odd gem mixed in with the rubbish, although I'd still say this was optimistic with the current production team, but if those story arcs were amazing then I don't think anyone would be complaining.

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2 hours ago, Spartan said:

every "guest" Captain has been the best thing about each season, Isaacs, Ansel, Jones' promotion but now we are stuck with the worst character of them all, Burnham, as the new Captain, a character that breaks down into tears in seemingly every episode.

 

AND a character that constantly acts against the captain and does whatever the fuck they want who now has no actual foil to work against? Except maybe the crew might mutiny? 

 

Like, if the writers were in any way competent it would be an interesting chance to look at what happens when a reckless rebel becomes a leader but I'm afraid the fuckwits writing this show haven't the wits. Burnham is good and right, the end.

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6 hours ago, Spartan said:

now we are stuck with the worst character of them all, Burnham, as the new Captain, a character that breaks down into tears in seemingly every episode.


You’d think with all those years on Vulcan studying their ways, she’d have learned to put a fucking sock in it once in a while. I’m sure Sarek wouldn’t have let that slide.

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Just caught up with this, wish I hadn't. 'The Burn' had potential to be a really interesting story but unsurprisingly, it wasn't and Burnham has saved the Federation. And of course she's captain now, she basically was anyway. 

 

I really don't want to watch season 4 but I probably will. 

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1 hour ago, FishyFish said:

 

Have you even watched the show?! The crew is as follows:

 

Burnham

Burnham's boyfriend

Saru

Tilly

Tryhard Phillipa

Spore-drive man

Spore-drive man's partner

Sarcastic doctor woman

Terminator-face woman

Not-Sulu

Comedy lizard

Attempted call back to the better days of DS9 Trill character

Rarely seen expensive prosthetics insect

 

 

How have you forgotten the pivotal characters of Lieutenant Owosekun (hair) and Lieutenant Bryce (beard)?

 

Spoiler

Yes, of course I had to look them up.

 

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6 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

How have you forgotten the pivotal characters of Lieutenant Owosekun (hair) and Lieutenant Bryce (beard)?

 

  Hide contents

Yes, of course I had to look them up.

 


I’m not claiming the list to be exclusive. For instance, I’ve not mentioned some of the sadly departed characters such as Space Malfoy and Daft Punk Woman.

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9 hours ago, FishyFish said:

 

Have you even watched the show?! The crew is as follows:

 

Burnham

Burnham's boyfriend

Burnham's antagonist

Burnham's best mate

Burnham's evil best mate

Spore-drive man who's in awe of Burnham

Extras

 

FTFY

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19 hours ago, FishyFish said:

 

Have you even watched the show?! The crew is as follows:

 

Burnham

Burnham's boyfriend

Saru

Tilly

Tryhard Phillipa

Spore-drive man

Spore-drive man's partner

Sarcastic doctor woman

Terminator-face woman

Not-Sulu

Comedy lizard

Attempted call back to the better days of DS9 Trill character

Rarely seen expensive prosthetics insect

 

C’mon Fishy, you’ve missed out Blonde Lady Who Mills About At The Back and Lady Who Can Hold Her Breath for Ten Minutes !

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8 minutes ago, Jammy said:

C’mon Fishy, you’ve missed out Blonde Lady Who Mills About At The Back and Lady Who Can Hold Her Breath for Ten Minutes !

 

It's a bit like CGI. When it's good you don't notice it's there. These characters are written so well as to render them invisible to a regular viewer such as myself. 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Barnard said:

Watching For All Mankind. 

 

Why on earth didn't they give Trek to Ronald D. Moore. It's so well written and put together. Great fantastical television. 


He was one of the main people on DS9, which was one of the reasons it was so good. He then moved over to Voyager but didn’t get on with the writing team so he left Star Trek. He should have been put in charge of the whole franchise.

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On 23/04/2021 at 19:54, Barnard said:

Watching For All Mankind. 

 

Why on earth didn't they give Trek to Ronald D. Moore. It's so well written and put together. Great fantastical television. 

It oddly works better as a Trek prequel series than the official series Enterprise ever did. IMO.

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1 hour ago, Hexx said:

Why didn’t he go the future again?

 

Everyone else did for not reason at all...

Because he's in that Section 31 series that they're never going to get around to making. 

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