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Terminator 6: Dark Fate - Cameron to oversee - November 2019


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31 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

It's got to be in part because the preceding 2 films were shit. Also, at best, word of mouth is "it's alright actually".  That's not going to bring them into the multiplexs.

 

 

Lack of star power as well. Arnie isn't in the same league as the Rock. 

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2 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

Lack of star power as well. Arnie isn't in the same league as the Rock. 

Yeah it's interesting, the conventional wisdom is that stars don't matter much for big budget films any more. That outside of Tom Cruise and The Rock there might not actually be any stars who can sell a blockbuster film simply on their presence now. But this has two nostalgia acts and everybody else in the main cast is pretty much a complete unknown. It definitely has an effect. 

 

Also I assume the regular audience are just totally confused by the perpetual reboots and sequels and convoluted nonsense. The opening scene of the half in the bag review nails this problem. 

 

 

 

 

It's it just this film though, Hollywood is in a panic as almost anything which isn't a superhero film or a Disney remake seems to crash and burn now.  Genres that used to be guaranteed box office like action films and comedies have to go to Netflix to find an audience. 

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On 06/11/2019 at 19:10, Down by Law said:

Eddie Murphy says he's done with movies. Arnies been talking about Triplets for years and nothings happened. Conan 3 should have been his post governator role, it's too late now. 

 

In the last 7 years he's done two terrible Terminator films, a trio of straight to video clunkers, and some minor Expendables cameos. The Last Stand and Escape Plan were good and they were 5 and 6 years ago respectively. 

 

I love the guy, I take no pleasure in saying it, hell I went to see him in September, I've got this silly expensive sideshow bust from T2, but his careers over. 

 

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It was over after he played Mr Freeze.

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1 hour ago, grindmouse said:

The flaws with the film primarily stem from the flat out terrible Mexican cast. A lack of fresh ideas and neutered violence further dampen it. But probably the best we can hope for at this stage. At least it’s likely to be Arnie’s last.

The Mexican cast is the least of the problems. The whole 'Carl' plot and the mostly terrible action scenes are far worse. 

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I thought terminator guy was fine. The girl was poor though, not likeable whatsoever. Can't even remember the actor or character's name. 

 

Mackenzie Davis was the best thing in it for sure, she managed something of the vulnerability Biehn had in the original. 

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Dani!

 

I thought it was decent enough. I found the Carl thing silly but the actions scenes had a nice solid feel to them. Grace was great. Bad termies can’t be too scarey these days because you know they’re going to get beasted in the end.

 

sarah Connor looked like my ma.

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I don't like to admit it, but this was a film that got worse after Arnie made his appearance.

 

Spoiler

His story just wasn't believable. A T-800 who grew a conscience and decided to settle down and start a drapes business. Like, what the fuck? The whole scene was full of tone-deaf comedy all stemming from that one nonsense idea that a killing machine would decide to be a dad. A dad with a distinctive look, who once killed an 11 year old boy on a beach in cold blood and then apparently nobody really minded.

 

The machine that does not feel pity, or remorse, or fear, decided to one day feel all three.

 

There's two things you could have got out of the idea. One's a five minute comedy sketch about a T-800 trying to settle down. Let's try not to put that in the middle of our action-thriller.

 

The other's a potentially interesting premise - what happens when a SkyNET-allied Terminator succeeds in its mission? The T-800 in Terminator 2 sacrificed himself because his technology needed to be destroyed to help prevent the war. SkyNET would have no such requirement. Does a Terminator then proceed to further identified targets? Look to assist in the creation of its own creator? Go dormant? Get hunted by law enforcement as a most wanted murder suspect and so continue to fight?

 

Any of those would be more interesting than what we got.

 

Aside from that, his presence also gave the group a bonafide robot to fight a robot with. That's always hard to get right. T2 managed to do it by making the T-1000 something else entirely, something that truly felt unstoppable. Something you felt they'd always be running from, and it's notable that they never try to take the T-1000 head on. They're always on the run until they happen upon the circumstances to defeat it, just like Kyle and Sarah in the first film.

 

So it was here, until Arnie shows up, and they decide to fight it. I get why, in terms of the film's story - Sarah's a Terminator hunter now, the T-800 has the means to attack it, they have connections (conveniently when the plot required it) to get the stuff they need to take it out. But it robs the film of that tension, of wondering just how the fuck they're going to get out of this one.

 

That's where the sequels to T2 fall down at the writing stage. They take the concept of the enemy that absolutely will not stop, ever, and think "but what if you could?"

 

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4 hours ago, Fry Crayola said:

I don't like to admit it, but this was a film that got worse after Arnie made his appearance.

 

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His story just wasn't believable. A T-800 who grew a conscience and decided to settle down and start a drapes business. Like, what the fuck? The whole scene was full of tone-deaf comedy all stemming from that one nonsense idea that a killing machine would decide to be a dad. A dad with a distinctive look, who once killed an 11 year old boy on a beach in cold blood and then apparently nobody really minded.

 

The machine that does not feel pity, or remorse, or fear, decided to one day feel all three.

 

There's two things you could have got out of the idea. One's a five minute comedy sketch about a T-800 trying to settle down. Let's try not to put that in the middle of our action-thriller.

 

The other's a potentially interesting premise - what happens when a SkyNET-allied Terminator succeeds in its mission? The T-800 in Terminator 2 sacrificed himself because his technology needed to be destroyed to help prevent the war. SkyNET would have no such requirement. Does a Terminator then proceed to further identified targets? Look to assist in the creation of its own creator? Go dormant? Get hunted by law enforcement as a most wanted murder suspect and so continue to fight?

 

Any of those would be more interesting than what we got.

 

Aside from that, his presence also gave the group a bonafide robot to fight a robot with. That's always hard to get right. T2 managed to do it by making the T-1000 something else entirely, something that truly felt unstoppable. Something you felt they'd always be running from, and it's notable that they never try to take the T-1000 head on. They're always on the run until they happen upon the circumstances to defeat it, just like Kyle and Sarah in the first film.

 

So it was here, until Arnie shows up, and they decide to fight it. I get why, in terms of the film's story - Sarah's a Terminator hunter now, the T-800 has the means to attack it, they have connections (conveniently when the plot required it) to get the stuff they need to take it out. But it robs the film of that tension, of wondering just how the fuck they're going to get out of this one.

 

That's where the sequels to T2 fall down at the writing stage. They take the concept of the enemy that absolutely will not stop, ever, and think "but what if you could?"

 

Yeah they tied themselves in knots trying to explain Arnie's backstory. The last third of the film is just really weak all round, the action turns from the pretty exciting relatively grounded stuff earlier on (basically rehashing t2 to be fair) into the totally absurd, numbing stuff you get in superhero films now. The first hour or so, though genuinely quite good. 

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4 hours ago, womblingfree said:


This is the answer to Terminators problems. The Rock can revive my plummeting franchise.

 

It’ll still be shit, but we’ll all go and see it.

 

Robo Rock!


Thats the opposite of the answer. The answer is to go back to basics and make a really tight, intimate and intense nihilistic chase film where there is no hope, its all set in dark desolate night, and the thing pursuing them cannot be stopped. 

And no CGI. 

The original Terminator has more in common with It Follows or Ringu than with Hollywood blockbusters. Terminator 2 upped the action and included some sunlight and gags, but the sense of hopelessness and ruthlessness remained. 

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10 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:


Thats the opposite of the answer. The answer is to go back to basics and make a really tight, intimate and intense nihilistic chase film where there is no hope, its all set in dark desolate night, and the thing pursuing them cannot be stopped. 

And no CGI. 

The original Terminator has more in common with It Follows or Ringu than with Hollywood blockbusters. Terminator 2 upped the action and included some sunlight and gags, but the sense of hopelessness and ruthlessness remained. 

 

I agree, although CGI is fine if its used effectively, like it is in T2.

 

The problem is, every action films wants to be a superhero film now when it doesnt need to be. Look how stripped back Joker is compared to what it would have been like if it was Letos Joker that it focussed on. You can still have success with larger than life characters without it being MCU-lite.

 

Terminator has seen diminished returns because since T2 they've all been poor to utter shit. I feel if they stripped it back and went back to basics, offered something new (technically old), it could reignite the franchise. If it was great, then good word of mouth from critics and fans would see it make a profit too.

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1 minute ago, Stigweard said:

 

 

I agree, although CGI is fine if its used effectively, like it is in T2.

 

The problem is, every action films wants to be a superhero film now when it doesnt need to be. Look how stripped back Joker is compared to what it would have been like if it was Letos Joker that it focussed on. You can still have success with larger than life characters without it being MCU-lite.

 

Terminator has seen demolished returns because since T2 because they're all been poor to utter shit. I feel if they stripped it back and went back to basics, offered something new (technically old), it could reignite the franchise. If it was great, then good word of mouth from critics and fans would see it make a profit too.


Yeah you're right, CGI itself isn't inherently bad. Its just how its deployed to make things bigger. The car chase at the start of this Terminator has more flipped cars, quicker cuts and upped carnage from the viaduct chase in T2, but it is no more exciting because the stakes dont feel high and the geography isn't well established.

This car chase from 1978's The Driver is vastly more exciting because it feels real, hefty and dangerous.
 


 

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The new Terminator film failed because 60% of the core Terminator audience has now died of old age. The original film came out thirty five years ago. Releasing a sequel now is like releasing a sequel to 'I Was a Male War Bride' or 'Twelve O' Clock High' in 1984, starring the original lead actor, and wondering why these modern kids with their walking-mans and rappity-boom music aren't clogging up the tram lines as they skateboard en masse towards their nearest cinema to see it.

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23 minutes ago, K said:

The new Terminator film failed because 60% of the core Terminator audience has now died of old age. The original film came out thirty five years ago. Releasing a sequel now is like releasing a sequel to 'I Was a Male War Bride' or 'Twelve O' Clock High' in 1984, starring the original lead actor, and wondering why these modern kids with their walking-mans and rappity-boom music aren't clogging up the tram lines as they skateboard en masse towards their nearest cinema to see it.


also its crap. 

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In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Miller revealed that a whole book could be written surrounding the behind-the-scenes drama of Dark Fate, and that though he’s still “processing” the disappointing returns on the film, he’s still “very proud of the movie.”

 

“The things they seemed to hate the most about the movie were things I can’t control,” Miller said. “I can’t control you didn’t like ‘Genysis’ or you felt betrayed by ‘Terminator 4.’ I can’t help that. Even though Jim is a producer and David Ellison is a producer and they technically have final cut and ultimate power, my name is still on it as director. Even if I’m going to lose the fight… I still feel this obligation to fight because that is what the director is supposed to do. Fight for the movie.”

 

Miller revealed that many of the disagreements between Cameron and Miller came from small lines of dialogue the latter viewed as “poetic and beautiful” and were “important to me,” but that Cameron didn’t care for, as well as their visions for the new future. The franchise creator wanted the humans to be winning in the future, as was happening in the first two films, whereas Miller wanted them to be facing a losing battle to the new Skynet.

 

“[I suggested] Legion is so powerful, the only way to beat it is going back in time and strangle it in the crib,” Miller said. “Jim says, ‘What’s dramatic about the humans losing?’ And I say, ‘Well, What’s dramatic about the humans winning and they just need to keep on winning?’ I like a last stand. It’s not his thing.”

 

Quote

 

Miller revealed that the reasons behind why he exited Deadpool 2, where star Ryan Reynolds “wanted to be in control of the franchise,” are the same ones as why he will most likely not be working with Cameron again in the future.

 

“You can work that way as a director, quite successfully, but I can’t,” Miller said. “I can say no, but it has nothing to do with whatever trauma I have from the experience. It’s more that I just don’t want to be in a situation again where I don’t have the control to do what I think is right.”

 

Despite all the behind the scenes issues, however, Miller claims he and Cameron’s relationship is still on good grounds, even receiving an email from him saying “I know we clashed a little bit. I put it all down to two strong, creative people with differences of opinion and I think it made the movie better. I’ll be back in L.A. in December, let’s go get a beer.”

 

 

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Just out of seeing this, thought it was enjoyable enough,  bolstered by a strong performance from Mackenzie Davis.  It certainly could have been better in a few places though.  Even some of the stuff it did right had a few issues.  The biggest one being that Miller doesn’t appear to be able to direct things to really keep track of where everything is.  The opening action scene I really liked - it’s exciting, well paced, and structured in a way that flows sensibly and people react to things in ways you’d expect, or they try to get the upper hand by doing things that make sense.  That said, there’s a number of times in the cars where it’s real easy to lose track of where everyone is and where the vehicles are in relation to each other.  It’s not the end of the world, but it makes them harder to follow at times.

 

Its also fair to say it outstays it’s welcome a bit and does that thing where the end action sequence is probably the least interesting but gets stretched out into several sections rather than shortening it.

 

I’d probably give it 6 thumbs up while being lowered into molten metal out of 10.

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