Hollow Knight - Soulsvania platformer

[Cyhwuhx]

53 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

I’ve been through one area entirely and missed the map seller (because I was following Hornet). Another section, almost certainly, you can’t buy the map while you’re in there - you have to get it by returning to Dirtmouth. 

 

If the game is designed around you dropping pins, and you can’t do that until you own the map, then there must be some other great reason they’re wasting my time like this. 

 

If you miss the map, you can always buy it in Dirtmouth. And that particular section is also very, very tiny and specifically there to play with expectations (and add some character to the map-maker).

 

This is becoming slightly tiresome, holding your own unwillingness to persevere against the game, while the entire game is built around that premise. If you're that much in need of a map there's always actual pen and paper. It works. I've done that with the original Metroid. And if you really think that to be an alien idea, then by all means just download the map from the web.

 

Why on Earth are you playing on if you don't like it that much?

[Cyhwuhx]

In other news I've received a white flower.

 

Holy shit. How?

[Fatsam]

Hollow Knight has lots going for it, but I definitely think it could have gone with a little bit of the breezier player friendly approach of something like SteamWorld Dig 2 without losing a sense of exploration or accomplishment from beating bosses etc. I might have felt compelled to complete it had it done that.

 

Although I'm thinking more of stuff like having shops selling everything or maybe having the shops in that first town selling everything and letting you warp there exactly like in SteamWorld Dig 2. You have to be careful adding RPG elements into Metroid style games. Travelling back and forth exploring and opening up new areas can obviously be fun. Travelling not insignificant distances to specific shops to upgrade is much less enjoyable.  And feeling compelled to travel across the map to deposit money in a bank is certainly not something I ever asked for in a Metroid game. In any videogame.

 

I also reckon that if you're going to have hard bosses you simply have to put save points closer to them. 

[HarryBizzle]

50 minutes ago, Cyhwuhx said:

 

If you miss the map, you can always buy it in Dirtmouth. And that particular section is also very, very tiny and specifically there to play with expectations (and add some character to the map-maker).

 

This is becoming slightly tiresome, holding your own unwillingness to persevere against the game, while the entire game is built around that premise. If you're that much in need of a map there's always actual pen and paper. It works. I've done that with the original Metroid. And if you really think that to be an alien idea, then by all means just download the map from the web.

 

Why on Earth are you playing on if you don't like it that much?

 

If you find my posts tiresome you don’t have to try and counter every criticism I have. I’m aware of the existence of paper, thanks, and most of the other solutions to the problems I have, too. That doesn’t mean the design choices are correct. 

 

And I’m still mostly enjoying it. I just think it apes too many Dark Souls mechanics, which are a poor choice and do nothing to improve the experience. 

[Kiwi Cake]

I found this game quite challenging initially, not because of the difficulty, but because of how much I wanted to explore everything and constantly felt like I was going the wrong way or missing out on stuff. It's initially a lot more daunting than most Metroidvanias, where I almost always feel like I have a sense of which way I should be going next and areas I definitely cannot get to are relatively clearly signposted. This feeling melted away over time as I became more familiar with the areas and became more comfortable with the way progression works. I actually quite like the map!

 

I've got three or four movement upgrades now, just bagged my second sword upgrade, and I think this game is absolutely brilliant. The controls are excellent, it has that Dark Souls quality of initially feeling a bit imprecise, leaving you taking hits and getting battered about the place, until you master your core moveset and you're suddenly dancing around enemies and bosses you struggled with for ages. I like the addition of mechanics like respawning enemies when you rest at a bench, again it has that Dark Souls balance of resting to recover/create a checkpoint or pushing on and exploring while the area is relatively clear. The charms are great and feel like they have meaningful benefits to them, as do most of the upgrades you find. All in all I'm finding it to be a superbly balanced experience, walking a fine line between elation and frustration. I can see why some wouldn't like it, but it's right up my street for sure.

 

Also of note is the way the lore slowly unfolds around you, the way characters you meet change over the course of several meetings and the Dung Defender! HAW HAW!

 

I love it all.

[Beezer]

 

3 hours ago, Fatsam said:

could have gone with a little bit of the breezier player friendly approach of something like SteamWorld Dig 2 without losing a sense of exploration or accomplishment from beating bosses etc

 

Strongly disagree! Steamworld Dig 2 had none of the sense of exploration or accomplishment that this has. That game was painfully average. Being lost and having to actually try to navigate yourself without handholding is part of why this works. It creates a stronger connection between the player and the environment and makes exploration more meaningful.

[Cyhwuhx]

3 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

And I’m still mostly enjoying it. I just think it apes too many Dark Souls mechanics, which are a poor choice and do nothing to improve the experience. 

 

And for me that's exactly in the spirit on Metroidvania. If I can't get lost and beaten, it's always a disappointment.

[robdood]

57 minutes ago, Cyhwuhx said:

If I can't get lost and beaten, it's always a disappointment.

Yeah man, I did a proper LOL playing last night.  Carrying close to 1000 geos after a particularly long adventure without managing to find a place to spend it,  I eventually came to a junction. 

 

One direction had a sign post with a symbol I'd not seen before, the other looked like a continuation of the area I was already in.  I chose to avoid the sign, GOD KNOWS what'll be in there!

 

I continued a little farther, died after accidentally causing a chain reaction of big jellyfish.  Curses!!  Beelined for my Spirit, but died on the way.   Double curses!

 

Oh well, I've got nothing to lose now!  Let's check out what that new signpost was!

 

Oh.  An NPC!  Nice, wait..  Is this a BANK?!

 

FFS GAME I LOVE YOU. 

 

[jonamok]

Nice little thread developing over on resetera for tips and tricks that you might not know about.

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/hollow-knight-tips-tricks-thread.53169/

 

My fave, and not sure it's been mentioned on here, but if you double tap L instead of single tapping, it calls up the full map, and saves you using the - button and menu.

 

Amaze.

 

 

Oh, and this slightly save-scummy tip:

 

Spoiler

Want Dark Souls' Homeward miracle or Homeward Bone consumable?
Pause the game with +, exit to menu, hit yes when prompted. Reload your save.
You'll resume at the last bench you sat on, with all progress up to the point you quit retained.
Hell, you'll even see a "map updated" tooltip appear when waking up if you've charted new locations since your last rest.
Double bonus: Do this whenever you're about to die, and you'll never have to worry about double-dying and losing your Geos.
Triple bonus: Whenever you want to do a deep dive to a location without an easy stagway exit, rest as a convenient bench, dive down to do whatever you want to do, then use this trick to "Homeward" all the way back to your convenient bench location.

 

[robdood]

I'd worked those out myself!  Hehe.  Though I'm not using the save scum any more, it's not in the spirit of things!

 

Progress update - made it to the Blacksmith.  So awesome.  Had a poke around the city, but ran into lots of doors that open the other side. 

 

Found the guy who buys the strange items from you.  I'm now running round with about 2000 geos and bricking it. 

 

Made it back to a bench and left it there. 

 

Time to go back and press up to challenge.  Pretty sure it's the only way I can go right now.

 

Such a game.  Playing Bloodstained is going to feel a bit old-hat compared to this...  

[HarryBizzle]

It’s easy to get back the relic buyer and you don’t lose relics when you die. 

 

You goofed in selling to him before getting the nearest stag station online. 

[Cyhwuhx]

 

Spoiler

Deepnest. Not exactly a place for arachnaphobists.  First ehr... mask get?

 

 

Spoiler

Nosk. Holy mother of Christ. 

 

 

[dug]

Question for those in the know: is the DLC stuff separate from the main game, or integrated into it? Is it possible I've already found/done some DLC stuff without even realising it, or is it very definite, separate side content?

 

Unrelated edit: just thought I'd buy the last remaining items from the last vendor I haven't cleared out yet 

Spoiler

so I went to the bank to withdraw some cash 

Spoiler

and she's gone! Wtf! Bitch stole my money! Motherfucker! I had like 3500 geo in there!

 

 

[Cyhwuhx]

5 minutes ago, dug said:

Question for those in the know: is the DLC stuff separate from the main game, or integrated into it? Is it possible I've already found/done some DLC stuff without even realising it, or is it very definite, separate side content?

 

It’s integrated with everything as they also served as balancing and bug fix updates.

[dug]

Just now, Cyhwuhx said:

 

It’s integrated with everything as they also served as balancing and bug fix updates.

Ok cool, ta. 

[Marlew]

Absolute shit for cunts game.

 

Edit: Just reached Hornet. 

[Beezer]

2 minutes ago, Spainkiller said:

jonamok’s tips are insane, btw. Game changers.

 

Are they spoilers?

[HarryBizzle]

Given up on Soul Sanctum. Stumbled across Mawlog or Mawrog or something. Spider thing that spits lava. Absolute F my S up tier. 

 

Gonna head down to the fungal wastes again. Seems I missed the Queen’s Station so gonna poke around in there. 

[Cyhwuhx]

11 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Given up on Soul Sanctum. Stumbled across Mawlog or Mawrog or something. Spider thing that spits lava. Absolute F my S up tier. 

The trick to that boss is hitting it once and backing off. Whenever he spits lava dash over him. Then repeat. He’s insanely easy that way. NEVER get multiple hits in. You’ll regret his slash reflex. 

[Beezer]

51 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Given up on Soul Sanctum

 

Nowhere near as hard as you think. Mawlog though i agree it a total fucker.

[HarryBizzle]

8 minutes ago, Beezer said:

 

Nowhere near as hard as you think. Mawlog though i agree it a total fucker.

 

I did pretty well against him but just found it frustrating trekking back up there all the time. Hopefully I’ll go back with a sword upgrade and and it won’t take as long. His patterns are pretty steady but I kept getting caught out by his ranged attacks. 

[HarryBizzle]

Finally managed Soul Dude. Once you get into a rhythm he's fine.

[robdood]

What the fucking fuck man. 

 

There's a lift in the city of tears, you have to pay to activate it. Its near the stag station. 

 

I've only just found it. Every time I try to go up it the game crashes

[HarryBizzle]

It's a largely pointless lift. Don't bother. Just takes you to the bottom of the crossroads. Just use the stag station instead.

[robdood]

Update: Googled it. Turns out you must never look up or down when using that particular lift!

 

Nice bug! 

[robdood]

Ah man, Mantis Lords are so good.  Nearly had them my first try!!  What a lovely boss to fight.  

 

Such a great game. 

[Quest]

Just did those Mantis Lords earlier. I also did well on the first attempt, then fluffed it about four times before beating them. The bosses in this have such a great rhythm to them that when you eventually tune into it, it feels marvellous.

 

Not really sure where I should be going now. I went the most obvious way after the mantids and it's scary and weird and I came out the other side without any significant reward, so maybe I missed something. 

[Beezer]

Hard to believe that the Mantis Lords could be done first try. I reckon it took me about 15.

[Cyhwuhx]

23 minutes ago, Nequests said:

Just did those Mantis Lords earlier. I also did well on the first attempt, then fluffed it about four times before beating them. The bosses in this have such a great rhythm to them that when you eventually tune into it, it feels marvellous.

 

Not really sure where I should be going now. I went the most obvious way after the mantids and it's scary and weird and I came out the other side without any significant reward, so maybe I missed something. 

 

Yeah, you did. You may have skipped a house in the far west.

 

[mogawoods]

Dare I say I'm getting a bit bored after 20+ hours? I remember the same thing happening on PC. Loved it until I reached a particular section (which I've got beyond on Switch) but now I'm finding the trek to the boss in the Hive a bit of a slog. Stopped me playing for a good week or so.