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Any CRT fans on the forum? Monitors, broadcast, tvs


dvdx2
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I miss my SNES but it's all the way back in the UK and I doubt I'll be getting back home any time soon. Fortunately it turns out Super Famicoms are cheap here, as are Sony PVMs. Now I find myself looking at literally thousands of listings for PVMs and realise I have no idea what I'm doing. 

 

What type of cable is best for hooking the SFC up? Is there anything else I need?

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1 hour ago, Spoonman said:

Where are you, out of interest? There’s bloody none here in Germany.

This was always the go to for Germany

 

https://www.dragonbox.de/en/accessories/monitors/sony-bvm-1454d-monitor

 

Dont think there here has been any in stock for quite a while

 

a Sony pvm 14L2 or a jvc 15 TM-H150cg are two good starter pro crt monitors to look out for

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3 hours ago, Spoonman said:

Where are you, out of interest? There’s bloody none here in Germany.

 

China. I'm guessing it's a combination of huge public services using them in the past and a relative lack of retro gamer demand, but there are loads of them available. Some sellers seem to have stacks of them still in their boxes, weirdly.

 

2 hours ago, dvdx2 said:

Sony pvm 14L2 

 

This is good to know. I'm talking to someone about one of these right now. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Quest said:

 

China. I'm guessing it's a combination of huge public services using them in the past and a relative lack of retro gamer demand, but there are loads of them available. Some sellers seem to have stacks of them still in their boxes, weirdly.

 

 

This is good to know. I'm talking to someone about one of these right now. 

 

Wow - if you can get a bvm get that!

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On 27/02/2021 at 22:16, Spoonman said:

just saved this beautiful monitor from the trash, playing DC on VGA CRT for the first time in 15+ years. It’s amazing. 
 

SgnzZOj.jpg

What model is this. Looks very stylish. 

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This will be my new retro corner. 

Waiting on help getting my furniture here.  Sony trinitron 21" lovely rgb image and composite on my av famicom is okay.  Love the set... Great image. 

 

Picked up from the British heart foundation a few years ago. 

IMG_20210301_124450 (1) (1).jpg

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On 27/02/2021 at 22:16, Spoonman said:

just saved this beautiful monitor from the trash, playing DC on VGA CRT for the first time in 15+ years. It’s amazing. 
 

 

Brilliant looking setup. Great game that too. What are those speakers you have? I'm looking for decent quality ones myself that are that small shape.

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7 hours ago, acidbearboy said:

What model is this. Looks very stylish. 

 

Multiscan E400 :)

 

4 hours ago, dvdx2 said:

VGA on a crt monitor, is definitely the way to go for the dreamcast.

 

I use these 2 - Mitsubishi diamondtron SB750 and a Sony F520

 

VGA on DC really is so impressive. 20 years old?! It looks so good!!

 

59 minutes ago, jamesy said:

Brilliant looking setup. Great game that too. What are those speakers you have? I'm looking for decent quality ones myself that are that small shape.

 

Thanks! They're the Bose Companion and they're absolutely phenomenal. I have a proper hi-fi as well, but these are bloody brilliant and all that's needed really. 

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I have a Sony GDM F520 too. Astonishing monitor. The DC looks utterly amazing on it. It’s such a shame more people didn’t give DC on. VGA CRT a try back in the day. So clean and vibrant. Bleemcast on it also blows away the backwards compatibility in PS2. So sharp!

 

 

Just to input on this topic - and I say this as someone who has multiple CRT screens including various sizes of PVM currently taking up wardrobe space, spare room space and space in my front room!) 

 

There is this weird big demand/push for PVM’s and BVM’s which has happened over the last few years. While there is no denying that they are some of the best CRT sets ever made and the pinnacle of the tech (alongside equivalents from JVC and Ikegami which never seem to get the same headlines) I think the reason for this is due to gamers in the US.

 

In the US they didn’t have SCART and they don’t seem to have had RGB on their sets in the same way that we did in Europe. So most of their consumer sets had S-Video or Composite. Then some later sets had Component inputs but I think a lot of these came after flat screens were beginning to become a thing. The vast majority of them seemed to use RF and Composite and nothing else.

 

So they are discovering RGB on a CRT very recently. I suspect these sets (PVM’s and BVM’s) may actually be easier for them to find in the US than good consumer sets with RGB in. Plus the jump is huge as they are going from RF /Composite to top level RGB on a top end monitor.

 

Whereas in Europe any half decent consumer set had RGB Scart connections on it. I remember the magazines of the time running features on 60Hz and RGB (with comparison screen shots etc) I got an RGB Scart cable for my Model 1 Megadrive in 1991 (or 1992) which was a massive step up from RF and made Batman look super sharp. Still have and use that cable. Then Saturn came with RGB Scart as default. Used to play on a Somy 13-14 inch screen and it looked ace.

 

Point is that while PVM’s and BVM’s are the top of the range you’ll likely pay a pretty penny for them. Any good Sony consumer level CRT will be more than good enough for 99% of people and can be picked up for literal pennies. I seem to remember Phillips and Panasonic screens looking brilliant too. Even cheaper brands like Aiwa and Bush etc usually had good RGB inputs.

 

Equally pretty much any PC CRT will be a brilliant screen (although you’ll need to pair with an adaptor if your device doesn’t support VGA) In fact when we ran BritMeet back in the day we often used PC CRT’s along with an XRGB 2 (or XRGB 2 Plus) as we would lug our TV’s and our PC monitors along :) You can get cheaper adaptors these days that do the job absolutely fine.

 

If you are thinking of getting a CRT and don’t currently have one and are considering taking the plunge it is absolutely worth dipping your toe in the water by picking up a cheap (or even free) consumer grade CRT. You’ll get a feel for whether you want to take the plunge into paying out more forma PVM and cables and the like. Be warned though - it is a slippery slope ;)

 

TL:DR - don’t overlook picking up a half decent consumer level CRT TV or PC monitor

 

 

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Just a further anecdote - I used to play my Japanese DC back in the day on an NEC PC CRT (still have it in fact) and paired up with a good set of speakers it really did feel like your own arcade machine. The speakers I had were powered by plugging them in-line with the power for the monitor so it was a really neat solution. 1 plug for the monitor and speakers and 1 plug for the Dreamcast. Literally everyone I showed Soul Calibur to pretty much instantly wanted to go out and buy a Dreamcast.

 

Please Note: the below paragraph is not a “Sony Sucks - they killed the Dreamcast and I haven’t ever forgiven them” type post (although they did and we will never forget. UK Resistance Forever!) 

 

Anecdotally I remember when PS2 first launched the guys in a local shop got an import one and I was in there when they were feverishly and excitedly unboxing it and hooking it up. They plugged in the composite cables into the TV in the shop, fired up Ridge Racer V and after a lap were openly expressing disappointment with the graphics. It made sense as the Dreamcast in the shop was hooked up to a good PC monitor and looked incredible. Obviously PS2 went on to have some incredible graphical displays in its games and they eliminated much of the issue with Jaggies etc but it can’t be overstated what a leap in graphical fidelity a Dreamcast hooked up to a PC Monitor was especially when compared to existing consoles such as PS1 and N64 which many people were playing via Composite.

 

Also I remember a shop annoyingly having Wacky Races on DC via VGA monitor in the window with a large PlayStation 2 point of sale material and logos etc above the monitor. It wasn’t deliberate misdirection - the window had all sorts of stuff in it - however the obvious leap for people to make was that it was a PS2 game running.

 

I do think Sega should get a lot of credit for being one of the first companies to make an effort optimising 50Hz games and not only that but properly supporting 60Hz gaming (for all but a handful of games where the flag was left out of the code)

 

I also think they were genius to spot the opportunity of VGA monitors. There was practically one in every home. So not only did it offer the opportunity to game on another screen in the house, it strengthened the Internet aspirations, lent the DC the air of a legitimate PC contender (with keyboard, mouse, internet browsing and gaming etc) but also allowed people to play at glorious 640x480 resolution merely by buying a VGA box and hooking up to a screen they already owned. Brilliant exploitation of an opportunity. Shame it wasn’t made more of a thing and I remember being disappointed that subsequent systems didn’t follow suit (apart from the 360 which is also glorious via VGA)

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Few nice posts there, grey fox

 

seeing the dc on a good quality pc crt for the first time, really is a eureka moment. It makes the dc hooked up by RGB scart, look like a dodgy composite feed lol.

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I always preferred the smoothing provided by the TV. Using the VGA Box (which I stupidly loaned out and never got back) made the DC feel like I was playing on a PC.

It was definitely very special, though.

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A few nails being hit on the head there @Grey Fox. I agree; my anecdote is the same for MiniDisc. There's something of an internet renaissance in the little MD, with click bait videos and "articles" asking "why MD failed". It lasted 20 years, and they're bloody everywhere! Europe (UK especially) and Japan—have thousands of MD units and MDs for sale on eBay and they're still being sold new in Japan (probably old stock). Point is, the net seems to me, to be weirdly increasingly American-skewed. MD didn't fail (it did in the US, I suppose) and as you say, RGB SCART into a consumer TV such as a Sony Trinitron is going to look pretty damn special. Composite and especially RF is complete balls, in comparison.

 

As for the DC through VGA; on a CRT I think it's very different to an LCD monitor. This freebie VGA CRT I have is pretty much close to the pinnacle of consumer VGA CRTs, I imagine. The first LCD VGA displays were slim, but their image doesn't hold a candle to this. 

 

I have a SCART CRT "planned", too.

 

Is there a decent (and cheap! haha) SCART—VGA adaptor I could be getting?

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For sure. I have a Sony Net MD player that I got on a car boot about 15 years ago (maybe more?) It still feels like the future :) There is a reason so many people in the music industry use them.  

 

Definitely - there is something about CRT’s and especially how good a Dreamcast looks on them. Daytona, Under Defeat a d so many more look astonishing on a good screen. Possibly the way the light spills over from the phosphor or something. So it is both sharp but also feels more natural. I think the same when I see film being projected compared to on a screen. There is just something about the way the light “reflects” or something’s it is hard to pin down.

 

I think I’m terms of VGA on LCD that it is often down to scaling. Many LCD screens were that weird 768 resolution so unless you enable Full Pixel (or equivalent) or scale the image properly then it is detrimental to it.

 

DC always had that weird 640x480 but in a 720x480 signal and some LCD screens really struggle with that. I’ve seen LCD’s that cut the sides of the picture off for example. Whereas a VGA CRT’s just handle it like a champ. 

 

I think you should be ok with pretty much any half decent Scart to VGA convertor these days. I’ve not looked recently as I’ve still got all my XRGB scalers but if you check the reviews you should be able to find something decent without spending a fortune I would think. 

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I re-arranged my CRTs and consoles, much better layout. here's a couple photos - I'd love a CRT monitor but no space at the mo!

 

I have too many arcade sticks

 

IMG_6138.jpg

IMG_6140.jpg

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24 minutes ago, watusi said:

I re-arranged my CRTs and consoles, much better layout. here's a couple photos - I'd love a CRT monitor but no space at the mo!

 

Lovely!! Thanks for the photos. What a pleasure to look at. I absolutely love the Astro City mini and also that gorgeous arcade stick, but I have enough sticks and decided to pass on Astro (I have a VSHG). Looks bloody good, mind you. I'd actually just like the faceplate for my VSHG... hmm

 

What is hooked up to what? I am as interested in the hardware, sticks, mods, consoles as much as the games you play on them!

 

Silly questions; whats the amp under the TV and what shelving units are those, because I need some that look exactly like this for my home office plans for 2021.

 

Quote

I have too many arcade sticks.

 

No such thing!

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On 27/02/2021 at 05:59, Quest said:

I miss my SNES but it's all the way back in the UK and I doubt I'll be getting back home any time soon. Fortunately it turns out Super Famicoms are cheap here, as are Sony PVMs. Now I find myself looking at literally thousands of listings for PVMs and realise I have no idea what I'm doing. 

 

What type of cable is best for hooking the SFC up? Is there anything else I need?

 

Best output for SFC is RGB. Bear in mind that if it is a Japanese console it may look like Scart but will be likely wired as JP21 (the connector looks the same as Euro Scart but the pin out is different)

 

Most PVM’s and BVM’s have BNC style connectors on the back. This is easy enough to sort as you can buy adaptors that adapt a RCA/Phono type plug (the ones you see on Composite cables or Component Cables) to BNC. Most people use RGB Scart from the SFC/SNES plug the Scart into a Scart to BNC cable and hook up the BNC cable to the PVM. Sounds complicated but it isn’t.

 

I suppose you could get a SNES Component Cable (can’t vouch for them myself but reviews seem favourable - HD Retrovision I think are the ones) these plug into your SNES at one end and terminate in the 5 Phono plugs (1 each for Red, Green and Blue and then left and right audio) then simply convert the Phono to BNC to connect to PVM.

 

If you go for a consumer set it will likely have a SCART socket on it so simply a case of plugging in.

 

Hope that helps. Not an expert on SNES stuff so if anyone can jump in and confirm/correct (berate me for being an idiot) that would be ace.

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Extremely envious of some of the setups here! I currently only have a 14" Aiwa CRT with a rotating one-console-and-stick-at-a-time system going on underneath it. Everything not currently being played is in pound-shop storage boxes or metal lockers under the bed or in a cupboard, with a few items of particular sentimental value on my bookcase.

 

How do you find the Nacon Daija, watusi? I've passed up on a few good deals in the past purely because of the usual grapevine complaints of unreliable PCBs and high lag, etc, but there's enough room in there for my Brook board, so none of that really matters, I suppose...

 

(I'm in the market for a VSHG and possibly the new Astro version too, but I'll hold off for now, as I've just grabbed a great bargain I couldn't resist - a Razer Atrox with Brook UFB installed and some nice panel art for £115. The importance of the latter bonus can't be overstated because the stock Atrox art is hideous 'gamer'/Monster energy drink-looking bullshit.)

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@Klatrymadon on what would you use the new Astro? I literally have sticks sitting around the floor of the home office here, and another one for the collection soon. It's all getting a bit silly!! I love the artwork on the Astro, and it's a nice colour overall. The VSHG is my fav stick.

 

The Nacon Daija interested me, but I would have to put a Brook Board, or similar, inside.

 

Where did you get the Razer Atrox? That's a good price with the board.

 

I don't want to turn this into the arcade stick thread but this is a great chat!

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1 hour ago, Spoonman said:

 

Lovely!! Thanks for the photos. What a pleasure to look at. I absolutely love the Astro City mini and also that gorgeous arcade stick, but I have enough sticks and decided to pass on Astro (I have a VSHG). Looks bloody good, mind you. I'd actually just like the faceplate for my VSHG... hmm

 

What is hooked up to what? I am as interested in the hardware, sticks, mods, consoles as much as the games you play on them!

 

Silly questions; whats the amp under the TV and what shelving units are those, because I need some that look exactly like this for my home office plans for 2021.

 

All of the consoles are hooked into a Lotharek Hydra 2 Scart switch, it has two scart outputs, one of which goes into another 1 in 2 out switch, so everything is connected to all 3 CRTs. There's a ps1, ps2, saturn, DC, xbox, xbox 360, Wii, Gamecube (all modded) and also a Mister FPGA out of shot to the left of the TV. The mister is also hooked into the monitor and a 55 inch TV via a HDMI switch. The scart switch has analog audio out running into a headphone valve amp too. I need to add some decent speakers.

 

Sticks wise, a Hori Fighting Edge, Nacon Daija, 8bit Do stick with sanwa buttons, an old 360 Mad Catz and the the Astro City stick. The Astro stuff only arrived yesterday so not really had a chance to fiddle.

 

The amp thing isn't actually an amp, its a DJ DAO Phoenixwan Beatmania IIDX controller. It's my most lovely thing I own but was a a stupid price!

 

The shelves are Ikea Kallax, a 2+2 cube and a 2+1 rammed together and fitted with glass shelves, they are perfect for this kind of setup.

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27 minutes ago, Klatrymadon said:

How do you find the Nacon Daija, watusi? I've passed up on a few good deals in the past purely because of the usual grapevine complaints of unreliable PCBs and high lag, etc, but there's enough room in there for my Brook board, so none of that really matters, I suppose...

 

I like it, its fun to fiddle with and flip the parts around. It usually has a white balltop but I was trying  (and not liking) a battop instead.

I applied the firmware update which is meant to fix the lag and TBH I haven't noticed any issues (but that might be insensitivity).

 

It's really well made and probably my favourite out of my sticks.

 

The 8bit do stick is really convenient, it can be paired to switch, pc and via the usb stick all at the same time. I use that a lot on the Mister.

The old Mad Catz stick is still a really great stick and only cost me £40 from these very forums.

The fighting edge I hardly use but its so pretty and the metal plate feels lovely under your hands. The hayabusa sticks and buttons feel nice and quite different to Sanwa.

 

The Astro stick I'm not convinced on yet - I like only having 6 buttons but the lack of cable storage is a bit annoying and the stick feels a lot looser than the other Sanwa sticks I have, it seems to have a longer reach.

 

I have a pile of spare Sanwa buttons and a USB encoder board so I'm tempted to get one of these cheap hitbox enclosures and put a hitbox together for peanuts.

 

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3 hours ago, Spoonman said:

@Klatrymadon on what would you use the new Astro? I literally have sticks sitting around the floor of the home office here, and another one for the collection soon. It's all getting a bit silly!! I love the artwork on the Astro, and it's a nice colour overall. The VSHG is my fav stick.

 

The Nacon Daija interested me, but I would have to put a Brook Board, or similar, inside.

 

Where did you get the Razer Atrox? That's a good price with the board.

 

I don't want to turn this into the arcade stick thread but this is a great chat!

 

I'd use it with almost every console the Brook board supports, really! I keep trying to cut down to one main stick to use with the universal board (two really, since I also have a TE Round 2 with a Retro Board in it that I use a lot), but I'm finding I just enjoy chopping and changing too much. I've put that board in about five different sticks in the last two years. :P

 

The Atrox I found on eBay pretty much by accident whilst looking for stick parts. Might be worth setting up an auto-search for the Brook board and seeing if any other pre-installed bargains turn up!

 

Edit: cheers @watusi! It looks gorgeous and sturdily built so I may well get one to tinker with at some point. I've seen a few people selling them for £70-80 in the past.

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