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The Matrix 4: Resurrections - Reeves, Moss and Lana Wachowski Returning! Dec 22nd 2021


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22 minutes ago, hmm said:

 

I get the impression that this wasn't particularly high budget - I think there's nothing official and a lot of what I've read suggests that. And I suppose it would make sense because, even with as much money as the original trilogy attracted, it was on a downward trend by the third and I doubt they were that confident about its pulling power nearly two decades on.

 

The original had a budget of $63 million. This is rumoured to have a budget of $150 million at least. 

 

Where the money is spent the original is better in every single way. 

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4 minutes ago, Ry said:

 

The original had a budget of $63 million. This is rumoured to have a budget of $150 million at least. 

 

Where the money is spent the original is better in every single way. 


In todays money that’s ‘only’ a difference of $35 million or so.

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6 minutes ago, Ry said:

The original had a budget of $63 million. This is rumoured to have a budget of $150 million at least. 

 

Even if that's true (and I'd wonder if it is), that's still only the budget of the third film, 18 years ago. Maybe shitty weightless CG is cheaper these days though, I don't know.

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8 minutes ago, hmm said:

 

Even if that's true (and I'd wonder if it is), that's still only the budget of the third film, 18 years ago. Maybe shitty weightless CG is cheaper these days though, I don't know.


In todays money $63 million is about $115 million. It’s over 20 years old!

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3 hours ago, Vemsie said:


Well, it's the movie he saw.
It's funny how my Twitter feed is basically the opposite of this thread, so I'm pretty curious now.
Saw this one pop-up for example:

 


This review seems really reaching. I can imagine being impressed by the “meta” elements 10-15 years ago, though maybe not in this shoddy guise. I think if people are taking more from it than it warrants, they’re bringing more to it than it deserves.

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Oh god, the ending.

 

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One of the absolute worst films I have ever seen, and Keanu was the worst I've ever seen him, it's like he didn't want to be there. Carrie-Anne Moss was fine in fairness, and I actually liked what they did with Smith and the Analyst. But the rest of the cast were shit and none of the new characters really clicked for me. I just didn't care about them. 

 

The action scenes are also woeful. This is simply a terrible, unentertaining movie. 

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19 minutes ago, Thor said:

Oh god, the ending.

 

giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952b0ea18eb3f6e84281

 

One of the absolute worst films I have ever seen, and Keanu was the worst I've ever seen him, it's like he didn't want to be there. Carrie-Anne Moss was fine in fairness, and I actually liked what they did with Smith and the Analyst. But the rest of the cast were shit and none of the new characters really clicked for me. I just didn't care about them. 

 

The action scenes are also woeful. This is simply a terrible, unentertaining movie. 

 

My brother lasted 28 mins. Couldn't believe what he was watching. 

 

How I managed to last the whole thing I will never know. 

 

Im still fuming about what I watched 24 hours later. I can't believe professionals thought any of this was good. It's laughable. 

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That was absolute drivel. The film is just a total mess and for all the nonsense they throw at the screen it's pretty dull. I actually enjoyed the first 30 minutes and it looked to be doing something interesting with this reinvention. Having said that, very little made sense across the entirety of the film. 

 

For a series that was based around innovative combat and set pieces, there's not a single scene here worthy of the original. Zero innovation and total regression. Couple of the fight scenes, you couldn't actually make out what on earth was going on, the 

Spoiler

train section especially.

 

The acting isn't that bad, all things considered, but it's so wasted on a piss-poor plot, some truly abysmal scripting and some nonsensical plot development. The 'deeper themes' that the film is supposedly exploring are about as subtle as a brick and are all delivered inanely. Some of the CGI is so poor it seems deliberate. Not as poor as the aim of the bad guys, they make stormtroopers look like Robin Hood. 

 

The best part of the film was the use of a 54 year old song. The worst part was realising at the end that despite the wonderful Christina Ricci being credited in the film I had absolutely no idea when she'd appeared. Plus the use of Kyogre was baffling. And the song over the credits is one of the worst things I've ever heard. For a film that has a mid-credits clip, all that song did was usher the audience out before they could actually see it. 

 

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I'm about halfway through. I don't hate it but the cudgel point was clearly evident by the amount of times I heard the word binary in the first 45 mins. 

 

The action is indeed terrible compared to the original, but I'm still watching it. 

 

So far it's ok. Nothing compares to the original and the impact that had. And nothing will ever meet the expectations we all had after seeing that first movie.

 

Except the Beyond. Cos that is still my favourite slice of Matrix that exists.  

 

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11 minutes ago, cassidy said:

So far it's ok. Nothing compares to the original and the impact that had. And nothing will ever meet the expectations we all had after seeing that first movie.  

 

Well, yeah, it would be almost impossible to replicate the impact of the original, but such things are almost inevitably one-offs. I feel like that's letting the makers off very lightly though. As a pretty direct point of comparison (if you ignore the downtime in the Matrix series) you have John Wick, which in terms of its superhuman star and heavily physical, exaggerated action is very much in the same ballpark. There, similarly, the first film was a pretty fresh take and it's been diminishing returns ever since, but where it differs is that more or less everyone that enjoyed the original enjoyed the sequels, even if they didn't quite live up to it. Meanwhile, the Matrix series produced a sequel that was, to be generous, patchy, then a third film that was a genuinely traumatic experience that I'm in therapy for to this day, and now a fourth that at least some viewers are suggesting is, implausibly, worse.

 

I don't honestly feel like it's that hard, with the cast and the resources they had at hand, to make an acceptable Matrix sequel, either for films two or three or now this reboot. From the trailer, what I expected was essentially a relatively safe retread of the first film - that's what the plot line of Neo etc. having forgotten everything suggested to me, that he would now rediscover his powers in much the way that he did first time around with many of the same beats. And while that might not exactly have blown our minds all over again, it would have been ok, in the way that Force Awakens was ok and, in many respects, a relief. But no, the journey up their own arses that they embarked upon in the original sequels had to be continued instead, it would seem.

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I don't consider it a continuation? Honestly, I think it's more one of those movies where the people making it are having more fun than those watching it. It's like a xmas episode of On The Buses or something where they do something radial with the format, like have the cast go to Paris or something.

 

I don't even like the original trilogy but I don't think it tarnishes it? The intention feels more like a fun nod to the original, funded by greedy people who want to take advantage of the brand and use it to sell other things.

 

Really, it's not TERRIBLE. It's ok and serviceable, it just oddly feels souless. 

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Just came back from seeing it in the cinema. Yeah it’s bad. Not as bad as y’all are saying, but just nothing middle-of-the-road pointless 2.5/5 nonsense.
In the cinema at least, it looked amazing, no complaints on the effects and the slow-mo thing the Analyst did looked good to me. Maybe the pirated copy is less good?

 

The action scenes are a total mess, none of them are easy to follow of satisfying at all and the best ones are shot for shot copies of ones in the first movie. I get that that’s the point but it came across as lazy rather than meta.
 

Spoiler

As before, all the stuff outside of the ship and the matrix is boring CGI nonsense. None of the characters really landed, though Bugs was *fine*. The ‘heist’ bit felt like it had zero stakes or threat.

The ‘message’ I thought was fine and actually could’ve been weaved in to something interesting, but it was all thrown in as exposition instead of being shown to us. They resurrected Neo and Trinity from scratch (whaaa?)… why was not clear to me. They then need them to be close but not touching… for some reason? This was Architect level meaningless nonsense.

Also, all the stuff with the synthetic life forms and machines and humans working together is all way more interesting and barely explored. Talking of Mass Effect, do you think that’s why the other captain was called Shepherd? Or are we just doing a standard ‘sheeple’ reference here? If this had been a big more Free Guy and Mass Effect (and even Star Trek) it’d’ve been 100x more interesting.

Oh and how does jacking in and out of the matrix work now? Why did they need to use Bugs as an intermediary? Why doesn’t trinity have to take a red pill but Neo really really does? Since when are mirrors like ‘hardlines’. Just have some kind of cohesive mechanisms and stick to them.

It also did the classic 20 year later sequel thing of: oh you liked Neo stopping some bullets when it was expensive CGI? Well now it’s cheap so here’s him stopping LOADS of bullets and now there are THREE helicopters and so on. More of everything makes it all less impactful and interesting. 


I have more thoughts, but basically: hot mess. I genuinely don’t understand how people could think this is great simply because it’s so easy to see how some of the same story beats could’ve made a much better film with a more interesting and cohesive narrative and better action set pieces.

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1 hour ago, hmm said:

From the trailer, what I expected was essentially a relatively safe retread of the first film - that's what the plot line of Neo etc. having forgotten everything suggested to me, that he would now rediscover his powers in much the way that he did first time around with many of the same beats. And while that might not exactly have blown our minds all over again, it would have been ok, in the way that Force Awakens was ok and, in many respects, a relief.

 

A lot of the positive reviews of this state that they like it because it's definitely not The Force Awakens. Instead it's an interrogation of the modern blockbuster practice of indulging our addiction to nostalgia, and never letting successful stories end (as exemplified by The Force Awakens, Ready Player One, Ghostbusters Afterlife, Space Jam 2, and the MCU). 

 

The film pretty much says that

Spoiler

nostalgia is yet another addictive way to keep people trapped in the Matrix.

That's catnip for people who are vocal about their dislike of the current state of popular cinema!

 

... But at the same time as challenging that, it's also indulging in pressing those fan-pleasing nostalgia buttons, and acknowledging the comforting power of familiar stories. Lana Wachowski has said that she decided to return to her two most important fictional characters as a way of coping with the grief of her parents' deaths.

 

I find that push-pull between those two sides very interesting. On the one hand you've got people saying this film is a cash-grab that is obviously only there to set up further sequels; and on the other, there are people who are saying it's salting the Earth (or scorching the sky?) to put WB off making any more of them.

 

I liked this Reddit comment which described it as simultaneously a "thank you" and a "fuck you" to the original trilogy.

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Someone once said, "nostalgia is a toxic impulse", and that's really stuck with me and informed a lot of, frankly, fairly embarrassing realisations about my own psyche.

 

I think this is a movie at least as interested in thinking about itself as a Matrix follow-up two decades down the line, as it is being a Matrix follow-up two decades down the line. Where you wind up opinion-wise on the movie probably depends on what sort of arch media pervert you are; I can unapologetically rant about how Metal Gear Solid 2 is the defining piece of media for our generation for several real hours.

 

If you like pressing the Skip button in games when people start talking about memetic theory, this movie may not be for you, but also, what the fuck did you think the person who wrote the Architect speech from Reloaded would be writing twenty years later? "Morpheus kicked a guy so hard he flew through the Earth like in Dragon Ball Z"?

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