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The Boxing Thread


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And you don't think those height and reach advantages aid there ability control the fight from the outside?

Don't you think Haye's self-proclaimed athleticism should have manifested itself as a huge advantage? The reality is that he chose to go into that fight light, assuming that he would have a speed advantage. He didn't, he was controlled by the speed of the jab and the movement/ring control. These are boxing issues, not size issues. Having his hands by his side and waving his head around thinking he was Ali got him nowhere.

As I said in my previous post, his height/reach are not abnormal by division standards. Tyson's reach was very short at 71", so he used to spar with people who had huge height and reach advantages and was incredibly well built for his height. Proof of the pudding is when he fought people like Tucker who couldn't make it work for them like they were used to.

Haye had a gameplan, it was poor, he then decides to whinge about how his toe hurt. I mean, come on. The only person making the division boring is another over-confident under-deliverer.

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Don't you think Haye's self-proclaimed athleticism should have manifested itself as a huge advantage? The reality is that he chose to go into that fight light, assuming that he would have a speed advantage. He didn't, he was controlled by the speed of the jab and the movement/ring control. These are boxing issues, not size issues. Having his hands by his side and waving his head around thinking he was Ali got him nowhere.

As I said in my previous post, his height/reach are not abnormal by division standards. Tyson's reach was very short at 71", so he used to spar with people who had huge height and reach advantages and was incredibly well built for his height. Proof of the pudding is when he fought people like Tucker who couldn't make it work for them like they were used to.

Haye had a gameplan, it was poor, he then decides to whinge about how his toe hurt. I mean, come on. The only person making the division boring is another over-confident under-deliverer.

Actually the jab wasn't too much of a factor in the fight as Wlad had trouble hitting him with it (from about round 3 onwards he stops trying to poke him with it and instead starts trying to loop his hand around in a sort of left hand hook motion come faint). Looking back on the fight its quite clear haye had a balance problem. He couldn't set himself. On the other hand both the Brother are frankly superb at keeping range. The steps back they take when someone attacks and their stance and height make it staggeringly hard to hit them well. It's boring as piss to watch though. They fight like a tall man should using huge advanatges in height and reach to their advantage. They control the fight and its a very difficult thing to breakdown.

The strange thing you can be a tall person and not fight like a tall person should do. The brothers use their advantages very well.

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I do like the sub-heading of this thread still being "Hype rising" - I somehow suspect the hype is starting to die down a little now.

I thought I'd wait until the ring-walks were finished before updating the thread. Any time now...

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Don't you think Haye's self-proclaimed athleticism should have manifested itself as a huge advantage? The reality is that he chose to go into that fight light, assuming that he would have a speed advantage. He didn't, he was controlled by the speed of the jab and the movement/ring control. These are boxing issues, not size issues. Having his hands by his side and waving his head around thinking he was Ali got him nowhere.

As I said in my previous post, his height/reach are not abnormal by division standards. Tyson's reach was very short at 71", so he used to spar with people who had huge height and reach advantages and was incredibly well built for his height. Proof of the pudding is when he fought people like Tucker who couldn't make it work for them like they were used to.

Haye had a gameplan, it was poor, he then decides to whinge about how his toe hurt. I mean, come on. The only person making the division boring is another over-confident under-deliverer.

They are good boxers but if you can't see that they use there advantages to aid the way they fight which is an incredibly saftey first no risk boring style then i think i'll agree to disagree with you. Wlad used to be a very exiting fighter before he got knocked out, shame really because he certainly turned a lot of people off once he started to fight the way he does now.

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The only person making the division boring is another over-confident under-deliverer.

While I pretty much agree with your assessment of Haye's ability, I can't really get behind that. What we saw from WK on saturday was a good boxing performance, but not a good fight. I like boxing, and I can admire his technical skills, but I like seeing a good fight more than a good boxing match. This was not a good fight. It wasn't even a good boxing match, although WK did all he needed to do. I'm not blaming him, but i'm much less likely to fork out 22 euro to watch another fight with him in it after saturday night.

Especially after watching the UFC after - there was 4 or 5 really, really good scraps in one night. The difference between the two was starker than ever, it feels like boxing is in really bad shape compared to MMA.

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Actually the jab wasn't too much of a factor in the fight as Wlad had trouble hitting him with it (from about round 3 onwards he stops trying to poke him with it and instead starts trying to loop his hand around in a sort of left hand hook motion come faint). Looking back on the fight its quite clear haye had a balance problem. He couldn't set himself. On the other hand both the Brother are frankly superb at keeping range. The steps back they take when someone attacks and their stance and height make it staggeringly hard to hit them well. It's boring as piss to watch though. They fight like a tall man should using huge advanatges in height and reach to their advantage. They control the fight and its a very difficult thing to breakdown.

The strange thing you can be a tall person and not fight like a tall person should do. The brothers use their advantages very well.

You raise an interesting point about Wlad's movement. There is a very simple way to counter somebody that moves in and out in straight lines: turn them. Haye was good at drawing Wlad on to him, but then he'd launch himself at him and Wlad would either grab him or disengage and back off. What he should have done is simply turn him so that Wlad would be retreating into the ropes rather than back towards his comfort zone (the centre of the ring). It's not to say that he'd have won the fight were he able to do this, but he'd have given himself a much better chance than simply trying to leap towards Klitschko all night. Have a look at Pacquiao-Mosley for a good example of this. Pacquiao pretty much had his way with Shane all night, however, Shane was able to consistently turn Pacquiao, particularly early on, and it caused him a lot of problems. People have said that Pacquiao has slowed down, and that he was poor against Shane, but I think that was definitely the biggest contributing factor to his problems on the night. It actually made me a lot less confident in Pacquiao's chances against Mayweather.

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Brilliant! All Hayes mouthing off and big talk over the months destroyed by 2 minutes of Wlad not even opening his mouth :lol:

Oh did anyone see this too:

0857: BOXING - Former world champion Ricky Hatton arranges a news conference for 1300 BST where he says he will make a "major announcement".

edit:

He just announced his retirement....which i thought hed done ages ago anyway

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,20876_7024383,0.html

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No, Hatton never formally retired till now. He took some time out, got stung by the NOTW (resulting in him losing his boxing licence), decided to get cleaned up and now has decided to not go back into boxing.

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The great boxing writer George Kimball died yesterday. For the last few years he wrote a great column in The Irish Times on all American sports but chiefly boxing. He also wrote a book called Four Kings about Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns which is excellent.

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The great boxing writer George Kimball died yesterday. For the last few years he wrote a great column in The Irish Times on all American sports but chiefly boxing. He also wrote a book called Four Kings about Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns which is excellent.

That book sounds interesting. There can be few occasions in boxing where one weight division has had such a wealth of talent as those middleweights.

I met Marvin Hagler in Wigan once. He was an absolute gent.

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That book sounds interesting. There can be few occasions in boxing where one weight division has had such a wealth of talent as those middleweights.

It was even better than that:

Leonard-Duran 1 was at Welterweight

Leonard-Duran 2 was at Welterweight

Leonard-Duran 3 was at Super-Middleweight

Leonard-Hearns 1 was at Welterweight

Leonard-Hearns 2 was at Super-Middleweight

Leonard-Hagler was at Middleweight

Hearns-Duran was at Light-Middleweight

Hearns-Hagler was at Middleweight

That's 4 different weight divisions. And Duran was best suited to Lightweight, many pounds south of where he ended up in a lot of his fights as part of boxing's 'fab four'.

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Yeah, Hagler was a career Middleweight.

I wasn't trying to nit-pick; I was just backing up what you were saying, really. It's incredible that they were all around at the same time. Any one of them would have completely dominated on their own, but the fact that they were all so good and they all wanted to fight each other (and did), just made them even greater. Pac and Floyd, take note!

[edit] And what about Wilfred Benitez? How unfortunate for him to belong to that era as well.

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It's good to see Hatton quitting while he was ahead. He may not have matched up with the very very best, but he went and had ago so thanks for the memories etc. I hate to see sporting greats trying to roll back the years when their time is up.

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I've had Four Kings on my pile of books to read for a while. I'll have to stick it to the top.

I have been encouraged by recent posts to rewatch Leonard-Hearns 1. Its possibly my favourite fight of all time.

Hearns was a freak of nature at Welter and had wrecked everything put in front of him. Sugar Ray was giving up big size, reach and power to him.

It starts with Leonard trying to hit and run from the outside but losing round after round. So Ray turns to a crazy plan B. He steps into range of Hearn's devastating power and fires back. In one of the most dazzling things you will ever see in boxing, Leonard goes into full offensive mode and smashes the bigger Hearns all over the ring. Somehow Hearns survives and starts blasting back in the later rounds setting up an incredible finish.

Sugar Ray Leonard was my hero when I was a kid. Its been rather cool for many to snark on him for outside the ring stuff in recent years but as a child of the early 80's he will always be my favourite boxer.

I remember 10 years ago seeing a young Floyd Mayweather dance inside the far bigger Corrales's range and smash him to pieces on the inside with skill and speed. I was blown away and reminded of Leonard\Hearns 1. I thought we had the new Sugar Ray on our hands. Unfortunately Mayweather has pretty much spent the last ten years pissing me off and destroying that initial hope.

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Haye/Hatton special on the Steve Bunce Boxing Hour last night. Excellent listen, the interview with Adam Booth was very candid. Interesting that Booth didnt mention David Haye's broken toe once in a very lengthy post fight interview. The Ricky Hatton interview was fantastic too, great story about Ricky Hatton fans drinking the MGM Grand dry before the Mayweather fight. Will there ever be a more popular British boxer than Ricky?

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The Pac v Mayweather fight has been gaining steam the past few weeks with Mayweather talking it up during the Ortiz pressers saying that Pac is next. And now Pac has finally agreed to random blood testing as long as it's not done by USADA, now i wonder if Floyd will have issues with that. I read some really interesting articles on the Mayweather v Mosley testing yesterday and the whole cutoff date bartering by Pac and Mayweather, it was rather interesting to say the least. I just hope they bloody get it on!

Pacquiao 'agrees to Mayweather's demands'

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Well, this is disappointing. Frankie Gavin flatters to deceive again. Bellew and McKenzie make the David Haye fight look exciting. Nicky Cook puts his back out six seconds into the first round. Feel sorry for the fans who have bought tickets tonight.

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Well, this is disappointing. Frankie Gavin flatters to deceive again. Bellew and McKenzie make the David Haye fight look exciting. Nicky Cook puts his back out six seconds into the first round. Feel sorry for the fans who have bought tickets tonight.

Hopefully the Murray v Mitchell fight makes up for it. Did Sky show the Gavin fight as I must have missed it?

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