Jump to content

Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Pure medievalism!

Talk Show Host

By Talk Show Host,
in Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

Cosmic_Guru

Cosmic_Guru

Posted
Posted

Things are looking up!  

 

I'm finding lock picking a little easier using the tip of the left hand index finger to rotate the left thumbtack anticlockwise rather than the thumb.

 

The game is still throwing curve-balls, which I don't want to spoil, but shall we say tolerance of mistakes seems limited in trainers...

 

A long walk through the woods is quite delightful.  Some of the landscapes at dawn / dusk are lovely too, in a pastoral sort of way.

 

 

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cosmic_Guru

Cosmic_Guru

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

@Cosmic_Guru enough with the lock picking posts man. :D What of the story? Characters?

 

Also, there is a 28GB patch coming in consoles tomorrow and a 20GB for PC, Eurogamer reports.

Sorry!  No more mentions, promise!

 

The game, set in Bohemia in 1403 has you play a pre-defined character, a blacksmith's son named Henry who finds himself in the service of his liege lord after the prologue.  I can't tell you much about his adventures thereafter in the local military since I've been doing other things, as I now seem hardwired to do wherever possible in RPGs.  The NPCs are a mix of village folk, peasants and craftsmen, and nobles, who are all or mostly historical personages - there is the fairly benevolent one who owes some unspecified debt to Henry's father, the young oik who challenges our man at the archery range, the one voiced by Brian Blessed, and so forth.  I assume that the main quest will mirror history in the grand sweep of events, but in the meantime one can (after a slow start) find oneself idling the time away playing dice, learning to read, capturing nightingales, stealing rings, mixing potions, grinding weapons and other such pursuits.  If you don't get a horse your footwear will be worn through.  If you trade punches with a yob your clothes will be ripped to shreds.  Practically the only thing you don't have to worry about is pissing and shitting, despite the facilities for these functions being available.

2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
John0

John0

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted

Don't mean to detract from the discussion about the actual game, but just wanted to post a couple of quotes and stuff from things I've read about Daniel Vavra (co-founder of Warhorse):

 

First, a quote responding to criticism of the lack of diversity in his game:

 

Quote

And they will never be happy. If you don’t have a gay character in your game, you are homophobic, if you do have gay character in your game, you are homophobic, because they don’t like the character. If women in your game look good, you are sexist, if they look bad, you are sexist, if you can fight with them, you are misogynistic, if you can’t fight with them, you are using them as objects, if you don’t have any women, because there is no correct way how to have them, you are misogynistic.

 

It’s a witch hunt and it’s affecting my artistic freedom.

 

Another tweet responding to the same criticism:

 

tumblr_inline_nke85y8ESN1rpr1t4.png

 

Vavra on GamerGate:

 

Quote

“Its all about political correctness,” he wrote to me. “The corruption and ethics are just the result of it. I believe in freedom of speech, even when I hear things I despise. The only way to deal with a bad idea is to provide a better idea and convince people about it with arguments. Nothing good ever came out of censorship. What we saw over the last couple of years is lot of articles in gaming media that were exaggerating some problems to absurd proportions and creating [an] atmosphere of hostility against people who disagree with them. We heard only one side of the story all the time for some reason.”

 

Vavra on Anita Sarkeesian:

 

 

Vavra on social justice warriors:

 

Quote

This is the ultimate goal of social justice warriors, destroy all that which is offensive.

 

Honestly, I feel more than a little uneasy supporting a game made by this guy, as much as I think it looks really interesting, unique and exciting in a number of ways.

17
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Alan Stock

Alan Stock

Posted
Posted

This guy is streaming the game on Twitch right now, he's near the start of the game. It's pretty funny, very rough around the edges but lots of potential for player choice and shenanigans. He's just murdered a dog and shot a woman with an arrow. Big open game world and lots of detail. Feels very Oblivion.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/sips_

 

Edit - the guards caught him and he had to go to jail for 10 days! And he has to stare at the wheel of time passing for fecking ages as the days tick by. Haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Talk Show Host

Talk Show Host

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Vavra seems quite an agressive guy, ready for a fight actually (what's with that nazi video anyway?). I am personally thinking that supporting the game is all about those who spent hours upon hours creating it. They can't all be assholes.

 

He does have a point though when he says that it has become a witch hunt and in most cases it's lose lose situation (the problem is that he doesn't know how to respond positively and create a debate which can benefit all.) We are too eager to label people these days without any actual proof or proper analysis. The thread here about Cage being homophobic, sexist or whatever and the clues provided to support those claims was a sketchy show at best. People even accused Naughty Dog of sexism in the LoU for fuck's sake, claiming that "Ellie was too much of a damsel in distress". :facepalm:

 

Now, back to the game.

 

@Cosmic_Guru, PC Gamer said that the slowdown was in the cities, not during fights. I want to get this on PC because it is a game that will provide many interesting mods, but if the perfomance is shit I have to think twice. Did the patch do anything for the slowdown?

4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Alan Stock

Alan Stock

Posted
Posted

Lol - as soon as getting out of prison the streamer is in the first town. He immediately pickpockets a sleeping person outside, but gets spotted. He passes the town guards who chase him with drawn weapons, but no worries, he just runs past them to the next part of the quest and a cutscene kicks in :D - it's even more wonky than Oblivion but has the same level of greatness to it. I can see this game being a gem for player stories and online tomfoolery.

 

Edit: After the story cutscene the guards actually did arrest him and he went to jail for another day (couldn't afford the fine for stealing). I wonder if there is a penalty for continually going to jail, it seems very consequence free? The world map looks huge btw, and the graphics are pretty nice.

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cosmic_Guru

Cosmic_Guru

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

@Cosmic_Guru, PC Gamer said that the slowdown was in the cities, not during fights. I want to get this on PC because it is a game that will provide many interesting mods, but if the perfomance is shit I have to think twice. Did the patch do anything for the slowdown?

 

Ok, I've not got to anything resembling a city as yet.

 

29 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

Edit: After the story cutscene the guards actually did arrest him and he went to jail for another day (couldn't afford the fine for stealing). I wonder if there is a penalty for continually going to jail, it seems very consequence free? The world map looks huge btw, and the graphics are pretty nice.

 

You lose skills.  I haven't really commented on skills but it's basically the Elder Scrolls way - use 'em to improve 'em, and you can also pay for a training boost.  There are also perks for each skill which unlock at various levels.

 

I don't think the map is huge by current standards but there are lots of wee encounters on the roads and "sites of interest" to find along the way (some of which have good loot). And exploration has a different feel to it without the menace of monster packs roaming around - humans are the main danger in this.

 

Something I've noticed from re-doing certain sections & encounters is that events don't always unwind in the same way.  

 

Also the sound work in this is very good and possibly compensates for some visual jank / pop-in.

 

Not looking forward to heavy duty melee combat but somehow managed to club to death a pack of 3 thugs in the dark. Archery is potentially more interesting but feels so different from the sort of "point and go" twangy style of most games - it's a much softer feel overall with no aiming target guidance whatsoever - the day I jug a rabbit, let alone an enemy combatant, will be a cause for celebration.

 

 

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Alan Stock

Alan Stock

Posted
Posted

Archery does look really hard. You don't even get a crosshair. It reminds me a lot of Hanzo in Overwatch in that you have to take into account arcing - and that hero is very hard to play well even after many many hours of play.

 

The funniest thing I saw happened in the first few seconds of turning the stream on - the guy bludgeoned a chicken, all its feathers immediately popped off - making it look like a rubber chicken and it then went rolling along the ground really fast. 

 

What I'm most interested in seeing is the larger scale combats that we saw in the early videos. They sound frustrating from the early articles but maybe the patch has made them a bit easier. I like the fact you are very vulnerable in this, it almost feels like Operation Flashpoint with swords.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tourist

Tourist

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, John0 said:

Honestly, I feel more than a little uneasy supporting a game made by this guy, as much as I think it looks really interesting, unique and exciting in a number of ways.

 

Excellent post. The POC tumblr guy has also made some excellent posts on the topic - very restrained, more interested in sharing information than taking a position, I think. 

 

I feel like the developer does make some good points about what it feels like to come under fire with no right of reply. I also think that he just doesn't realise how embedded his prejudices are, or how poor his understanding of history is. Anybody who aspires to any sort of historical realism must surely understand that they are inevitably going to have to take creative decisions about what constitutes 'realism'.  

 

And of course the outright racism of the twitter posts etc. is unforgivable. For that reason alone I would find it difficult to enjoy this, even if I had the time to buy it or play it.

7
Link to comment
Share on other sites
John0

John0

Posted
Posted

@Tourist Yeah well said. His feelings are understandable in places, but he doesn't seem to be able to express them without being super aggressive and combative. Without attacking other people in the way that he feels attacked. I guess people have tried to get him to understand that no one's trying to censor him, and that criticism isn't an attack it's a discussion, but it would probably be hard to get through.

 

Like @Talk Show Host says, it's important to remember that a hell of a lot of people worked on the game, and they are probably mostly all fairly nice, non-troubled people.

 

Anyway, on the game itself, impressions largely seem positive. Will wait to read a couple of reviews but I think I will take the plunge at some point. I do love the enthusiasm for history and accuracy that appears to have largely driven the game, even if it is misguided in places.

3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Luseth

Luseth

Posted
Posted

I played a few hours of this yesterday and I think the prologue bit is a little bit frustrating in that it doesn't really teach you much.

 

I'm not sure how I won the fist fight as he seemed to block every attack and then kept kneeing me in the nuts!

 

Spoiler

The escape during the attack -

 

I died 3 times running down the hill as some soldier kept up with me and then as I ran out of stamina at the bottom attacked me before I had chance to draw my sword.

Then escaping on horseback. When you get to the cutscene and you get shot in the leg. As soon as it gave me back control at least 3 times the horse was dead on the floor and I was surrounded by soldiers. So I have no idea what happened there....

 

That said once I got to Rattay? The game seemed to open up and became really enjoyable all of a sudden. I've decided I'm going to replay the beginning this evening though with mouse and keyboard instead of a controller. I get the feeling that was where my biggest issue was, looking about online the lockpicking for example is far more difficult with the controller etc.

 

It looks pretty good and i'm only running  a 1060 graphics card (granted a couple of settings are tweaked down from high as I don't want a hit on the performance). Note I was also running it through the steam link which was surprisingly smooth!

 

I get the feeling though that I will be pumping many many hours into this game!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cosmic_Guru

Cosmic_Guru

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Luseth said:

I played a few hours of this yesterday and I think the prologue bit is a little bit frustrating in that it doesn't really teach you much.

 

I'm not sure how I won the fist fight as he seemed to block every attack and then kept kneeing me in the nuts!

 

  Hide contents

The escape during the attack -

 

I died 3 times running down the hill as some soldier kept up with me and then as I ran out of stamina at the bottom attacked me before I had chance to draw my sword.

Then escaping on horseback. When you get to the cutscene and you get shot in the leg. As soon as it gave me back control at least 3 times the horse was dead on the floor and I was surrounded by soldiers. So I have no idea what happened there....

 

That said once I got to Rattay? The game seemed to open up and became really enjoyable all of a sudden. I've decided I'm going to replay the beginning this evening though with mouse and keyboard instead of a controller. I get the feeling that was where my biggest issue was, looking about online the lockpicking for example is far more difficult with the controller etc.

 

 

I couldn't beat that chap.

 

Rattay is the true start of the game after two prologue sections.  As you say, these can be very frustrating when you (for example) get knifed in the back without warning, bleed out after being shot in the leg etc etc, and it seems a very harsh lesson in thinking around problems from the get-go (or just for the need to be conscious of human enemies who don't always announce their positions by sound, let alone little red markers on the hud).  Replaying those sections now would be a doddle.  It takes a while I think to see what you can do within the confines of the game (and I still screw up big time and only realise with hindsight I could have made life a lot easier for myself).

 

I see loads of lock picking chat on the Reset forum too :D but I've said my bit in that regard.

 

I have to say I'm enjoying the experience much more now, exploring the map and doing side quests.  Some of the game systems are really interesting once you get the hang of them - alchemy, reading and pickpocketing come to mind.

 

It seems to be another game (hallo ELEX!) where there has been a deliberate decision to exclude children.  

 

You can guide the morality if you like of Hal quite a bit - if you punch the living daylights out of a beggar refugee, do you subsequently rob his purse and relieve him of the dignity of clothing (for example).  Do you poison an entire household just to steal more easily?

 

 

2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Luseth

Luseth

Posted
Posted

Right, i've pumped a few more hours in last night and replayed the prologue. This time i've gone with my mouse and keyboard and added 2 mods, one for unlimited saving and one for the lockpicking as i've decided I don't like it. (The latter mod means that I don't need to play the mini game, it just unlocks if my skill is high enough).

 

Once you reach the Town of Rattay the game really does open up, you learn combat properly and the story begins to take a sort of direction. One thing I noted is that I guess up until this point you are meant to be rubbish at swordfighting, you are a blacksmiths son after all with only a handful of lessons, you learn the basics at the start but when you really learn how to swordfight from someone in the first town then it all opens up.

 

I think for me the first few hours / prologue put me off a little bit as there was a lack of what's going on / tutorials etc which is unusual in a modern game. Just not used too it I guess. Once you do get to the first main town though it get's good. One thing in particular I like is when you are doing quests and told to go and find someone / something etc. It takes you to the point like a lot of games i.e. quest markers, but then on your map when you get their it becomes a boundary circle. So said person is somewhere in there but you don't just necessarily know who it is having never met them etc.

 

I think it's got great potential and if some good modders have fun with it in the future I could be playing this for a long long time :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cosmic_Guru

Cosmic_Guru

Posted
Posted

The side quest system is sweet in this once you see how it works -

 

Innkeepers will tell you if they hear of any folk in trouble, rather than provide work directly.  These change from time to time so its worth checking back.  You may or may not have met the individual in question beforehand, or you can speak to them first if you meet them on your travels (and get a SAVE).   I've  also picked up a quest from listening to a guard calling for me and from speaking to a higher ranked individual directly.  Then there are the various opportunities which arise once you have started a thief's life and I don't know if they would appear if you don't.  Once you get the quest you need to use some common sense at times rather than having everything spelt out for you and I like that approach.

 

And here is that PC gamer review https://www.pcgamer.com/kingdom-come-deliverance-review/

 

84 score and he seems to have way more bugs than me on XBO(so far)

 

 

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cosmic_Guru

Cosmic_Guru

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

The more I read the more I like. Most people I've read also say that the story is solid, and the same applies to writing and characters. I got that impression from the trailers but is there any truth to that?

 

I can't really comment on the main quest story  or writing quality as yet since I'm still exploring, thieving and (accidentally) seducing. The one cut scene I witnessed was fairly witty though Priest : "you can't make a knight out of a peasant" Lord "well, we've made a priest out of a pig"   The unusual thing is that the nobles in this are historical personages,  not fictional ones, so the writing has to be an extrapolation from the record rather than pure flights of fantasy (e.g the dude in the first castle you take refuge in was actually imprisoned for several years).  The peasants, trade folk and more educated personages such as scribes are pretty interchangeable so far with a few exceptions such as the miller and his daughter, most have little to say beyond the thing they want from you or to moan about something like the refugees or the Cumans.  So, pretty standard in-game stuff there to be honest.    I certainly wouldn't expect the richness of some of the main side quest lines in W3 for example, but there are opportunities in this to play things out differently.

 

An example (fairly early side quest but I'll spoiler it)

 

Spoiler

You get asked to collect a jewelled crown from the engraver in Sassou.  He tells you the man bringing the jewel for it has disappeared, but he could use a paste replacement.  You can volunteer to collect the jewel, suggest he uses the cheaper alternative, and/or potentially go and find the jewel yourself regardless and sell it on.  If you collect the jewel you could fight the bandits, poison them  (either mildly or fatally) by tipping something into their chow, pickpocket the key to their chest from a sleeping one, knock an unsuspecting one out from behind and loot his body for the key, or stealth in and unlock the chest yourself.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.

  I accept