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Ozark - Jason Bateman, Laura Linney


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Season 3 was boring. All the humour has been drained out of it and left something that’s just relentlessly depressing. It’s also got the exact same ending as season 2, which wasn’t that satisfying last time. It just feels like a holding pattern, with them now fighting slightly levelled up versions of the exact same enemies. The things I liked about all the characters who aren’t Ruth seem to have vanished. 

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

Season 3 was boring. All the humour has been drained out of it and left something that’s just relentlessly depressing. It’s also got the exact same ending as season 2, which wasn’t that satisfying last time. It just feels like a holding pattern, with them now fighting slightly levelled up versions of the exact same enemies. The things I liked about all the characters who aren’t Ruth seem to have vanished. 

 

Yeah I felt the same way, this series just felt like they moved pieces around the board to get to series 4, barely any character development besides Ruth and her brother, the introduction of the Brother/uncle

just to kill him off and provide some impetus for the characters, also his sister getting him killed made no sense

it all felt completely pointless and the writing was quite bad from about half way through the series. The Wire / Breaking Bad this is not.

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End of Season 3 spoiler:

 

Spoiler

 

Isn't it a bit dangerous to shoot someone in the head so close to people you want to live? Somehow the bullet didn't travel through and hit them but the blood and brain matter did.

 

Shock ending but without any logic. Shame.

 

 

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That is a pretty pedantic criticism, man.

 

I watched the scene again and it all makes sense with the positions people are standing,  and the angle of the shot there wasn't really a risk of friendly fire.

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On 15/04/2020 at 09:31, Broker said:

Season 3 was boring. All the humour has been drained out of it and left something that’s just relentlessly depressing. It’s also got the exact same ending as season 2, which wasn’t that satisfying last time. It just feels like a holding pattern, with them now fighting slightly levelled up versions of the exact same enemies. The things I liked about all the characters who aren’t Ruth seem to have vanished. 

 

On 15/04/2020 at 10:41, Minion said:

 

Yeah I felt the same way, this series just felt like they moved pieces around the board to get to series 4, barely any character development besides Ruth and her brother, the introduction of the Brother/uncle

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just to kill him off and provide some impetus for the characters, also his sister getting him killed made no sense

it all felt completely pointless and the writing was quite bad from about half way through the series. The Wire / Breaking Bad this is not.

 

On the contrary, I thought this was a huge step up from Season 2!

 

I almost didn't watch this season, I found the second a bit hammy and gratuitous, whereas I thought this one was brilliantly tense throughout and surprisingly restrained and mature. For example, in previous seasons the gore was often graphic but in this one some deaths weren't even shown because they didn't need to be. For me the show felt more grown up.

 

I loved Ben's character and his interactions with Jonah, and Ruth's journey, I could go on. I can't really fathom how anyone could think the show has declined in quality. It dipped in Season 2 but for me this has been by far the best season. I really didn't want it to end.

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This was brutal, absolutely loved it. There was some incredible acting and set pieces throughout imo. Ben's monologue and storyline being standouts. It continues to be all about Marty and Ruth for me tho. They are just fantastic characters and I so hope the writers continue to explore their relationship. The dynamic has been developed so well that I want to see how it copes with the various frictions and factions being created. I really hope they don't cop out and go a stereotypical route. 

Spoiler

Which would be making them enemies and not care about each other. That would fuck the whole thing for me.

 

However, the most important question that needs to be asked (and no one on a games forum has ask it yet!?) is that fucking arcade machine!? What a load of crap. I loved the initial intro and setup, but then saw the machine in question. Absolutely awful, with terrible 'fake retro' graphics. Why they couldn't have used a real title, fuck knows. Bah. Something like Ghouls n Ghosts for instance would have been amazing.

 

Anyway, roll on season 4! :) 

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Certainly a fantastic end to the series. Am I right in thinking that...<<don’t look if you haven’t finished S3>>...

 

 

Navarro has an inside man at the FBI ? Helen was either genuinely trying to get the Byrds out by tendering that state’s evidence/witness protection deal behind their back, which seems unlikely, or she was setting them up so that she could tell Navarro they had agreed the deal and he would have them killed. Either way, he obviously knew what she was up to.

 

 

Also, so sad what happened to Ben. Him standing on the porch of that restaurant looking for Wendy was heartbreaking.

 

Also also, Wyatt providing the biggest WTF moment of the series until the final minute :)

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I thought this was a step up from season 2. The one issue I really had with it before is that it tended to kill off interesting characters too readily. By the end of S2 we'd lost half the cast. It feels like a cheap way to create drama when it's overused, some of the better relationship dynamics are lost, and the repercussions keep stacking up. S3 was a bit more restrained in that respect, and better for it.

 

One thing re Ben

Spoiler

is there any chance he's actually still alive? Just wondering based on the way it was done. Admittedly, it seems unlikely and I've no idea how.

 

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You would think that someone would at least look at his body before they cremated him, but who knows? I didn't get on so well personally with this season; the money-laundering plot seemed to be stretched far too thinly and the FBI ended up looking like blind idiots, plus the Ben plot got seriously depressing towards the end.

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It’s an absolute powerhouse of a show this and probably the best thing Netflix have made. I do think though we need to move towards an end game now. Another couple of seasons of this quality and Ozark will go down as an all time tv great. I don’t want it stretched too far.

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On 24/04/2020 at 11:52, gizmo1990 said:

 

However, the most important question that needs to be asked (and no one on a games forum has ask it yet!?) is that fucking arcade machine!? What a load of crap. I loved the initial intro and setup, but then saw the machine in question. Absolutely awful, with terrible 'fake retro' graphics. Why they couldn't have used a real title, fuck knows. Bah. Something like Ghouls n Ghosts for instance would have been amazing.


TV shows just don’t seem to be able to get this sort of thing right. See also: Russian Doll.

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3 hours ago, Fierce Poodle said:


TV shows just don’t seem to be able to get this sort of thing right. See also: Russian Doll.

Aye, it's a shame. It would have added so much to the authenticity of the show. No real excuse for it either (that I can think of) other than a lack of willingness to do it right. Perhaps there's an argument to be made for the IP holder not wanting to be associated with the message they were trying to get across narratively. However, I'd still find that very hard to believe. It's pretty obvious they just got their art dept to knock something up.

 

A shout out should be made for Stranger Things though. They absolutely nailed their arcade, it is simply glorious. You could tell the Duffer brothers know their era.

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On 26/04/2020 at 07:34, BadgerFarmer said:

 

 

One thing re Ben

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is there any chance he's actually still alive? Just wondering based on the way it was done. Admittedly, it seems unlikely and I've no idea how.

 

Spoiler

Nope, he had to go back to his home planet.

 

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Just finished Season 3. Had to watch the last two back to back. How amazing was Ben? They seem to really get incredible performances out of the cast. 
 

It’s very full on. Less violence this season but heart wrenching emotionally. 
 

Spoiler

I found Ben’s storyline heartbreaking and not sure there’s much more Ruth can go through. It was a little obvious that this was going to end up in Ruth going back with Wyatt and teaming up with Darlene. I was not prepared for the final shot though. I imagine Navarro has no idea of the falsified false confession. I was relieved they weren’t leaving it on a massive cliffhanger. 
 

I liked how early in the season Helen asks the hit guy who’s with her if he would let her know if she was next. Like fuck he did.

 

I’m not so keen on the Jonah thing. Struggle a bit seeing the kids distressed   


Anyway. Long wait for the next series now. I think it’s my favourite Netflix original. Perhaps along side the first season of Bloodline which I think has a lot in common. For some reason I didn’t feel the need to watch the second season of that and gave up two episodes in. 

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Interested to hear peoples take on Ruth's decision making.

 

Spoiler

 

Specifically the whole plot point surrounding her beating and then demanding Jnr be killed. I don't know about anyone else, but when Marty met Frank and Marty told him the whole fucking deal is off end of, or he'll find himself hanging from some bridge, I felt totally satisfied. I literally went whoa, ballsy! He's fucking gone out on a limb there for Ruth! I loved it and to me it showed how much he cared for Ruth.

 

We then do a full 180 when Ruth and others demand Jnr's head on a plate. And what's interesting is how many people side with her on this. Not just the characters either but the audience ourselves. Very quickly people changed and said yeah, the Byrde's have done fuck all etc.

 

So where do you fall on the plot point? Tbh, I was a bit disappointed that the writers made Ruth behave that way. They've built her up to be a clever character, yet she is demanding something which could likely get Marty and her, killed. Rather than think her way around it. Either way it cleverly shows the difference between social backgrounds and the conflicts between them. The Byrde's fundamentally aren't crooks and see the world as such. Those brought up in crime behave differently and see expectations through that lens too.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, gizmo1990 said:

Interested to hear peoples take on Ruth's decision making.

 

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Specifically the whole plot point surrounding her beating and then demanding Jnr be killed. I don't know about anyone else, but when Marty met Frank and Marty told him the whole fucking deal is off end of, or he'll find himself hanging from some bridge, I felt totally satisfied. I literally went whoa, ballsy! He's fucking gone out on a limb there for Ruth! I loved it and to me it showed how much he cared for Ruth.

 

We then do a full 180 when Ruth and others demand Jnr's head on a plate. And what's interesting is how many people side with her on this. Not just the characters either but the audience ourselves. Very quickly people changed and said yeah, the Byrde's have done fuck all etc.

 

So where do you fall on the plot point? Tbh, I was a bit disappointed that the writers made Ruth behave that way. They've built her up to be a clever character, yet she is demanding something which could likely get Marty and her, killed. Rather than think her way around it. Either way it cleverly shows the difference between social backgrounds and the conflicts between them. The Byrde's fundamentally aren't crooks and see the world as such. Those brought up in crime behave differently and see expectations through that lens too.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

On the surface it was to do with the fact that Ruth had supposedly been made a made woman. This should have entitled the Byrdes to retaliate accordingly  
 

Thinking a bit more deeply, there’s obviously a Father/Daughter thing between Ruth and Marty and she feels betrayed that he’s not coming through in the same way he would have if it had been one of his kids. 
 

So she’s supposed to be family and had put to bed the death of her father on that basis. Now she sees the reality or another reality, helped along the way by reconciling with Wyatt. Although it’s actually Darlene manipulating them all. 
 

If you think about it, whilst Ben’s illness is the main driver for a lot of the shit, it’s Wendy’s hubris that is a big catalyst for a lot of what follows. When she thinks she can easily take the baby off Darlene it allowed Darlene to get claws fully into Wyatt and from there end up with Ruth and Wyatt as her protégés. Refusing to move her brother on like Marty said was also her just giving the finger to Marty. 

 


 

 

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1 hour ago, gizmo1990 said:

Interested to hear peoples take on Ruth's decision making.

 

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Specifically the whole plot point surrounding her beating and then demanding Jnr be killed. I don't know about anyone else, but when Marty met Frank and Marty told him the whole fucking deal is off end of, or he'll find himself hanging from some bridge, I felt totally satisfied. I literally went whoa, ballsy! He's fucking gone out on a limb there for Ruth! I loved it and to me it showed how much he cared for Ruth.

 

We then do a full 180 when Ruth and others demand Jnr's head on a plate. And what's interesting is how many people side with her on this. Not just the characters either but the audience ourselves. Very quickly people changed and said yeah, the Byrde's have done fuck all etc.

 

So where do you fall on the plot point? Tbh, I was a bit disappointed that the writers made Ruth behave that way. They've built her up to be a clever character, yet she is demanding something which could likely get Marty and her, killed. Rather than think her way around it. Either way it cleverly shows the difference between social backgrounds and the conflicts between them. The Byrde's fundamentally aren't crooks and see the world as such. Those brought up in crime behave differently and see expectations through that lens too.

 

 

 

Spoiler

I thought reconnecting with Wyatt was a big factor in her decision and her biggest beef is with Wendy. She still has plenty of feeling for Marty which will possibly become a bit of a dilemma for her in Season 4. I hope there's a reconciliation with Marty specifically, especially as Darlene is totally, fucking unhinged and will backstab anyone to achieve her objectives and adjust the balance  of things to her worldview.

I also loved Marty's fuck off stance to Frank Snr but you can see how the notion that Ruth was 'Untouchable' wasn't followed through on and in the reverse situation the mob would want blood as reparations.

Basically what El Geet said above

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@El Geet

 

Marty and Ruth's, Father and Daughter relationship is one of the (if not the) greatest aspects of the show. However,

Spoiler

I don't feel like Marty behaved any differently to Ruth than he would of if the same thing had happened to one of his kids. That's the other thing the show has been very good at depicting. Marty doesn't immediately react on an emotional level. Given even a small amount of time, he'll think things through and weigh up the situation. Even when he was forced to act totally against his nature (shooting Mason) he only did so because there was no other way out.

 

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10 minutes ago, gizmo1990 said:

@El Geet

 

Marty and Ruth's, Father and Daughter relationship is one of the (if not the) greatest aspects of the show. However,

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I don't feel like Marty behaved any differently to Ruth than he would of if the same thing had happened to one of his kids. That's the other thing the show has been very good at depicting. Marty doesn't immediately react on an emotional level. Given even a small amount of time, he'll think things through and weigh up the situation. Even when he was forced to act totally against his nature (shooting Mason) he only did so because there was no other way out.

 

I would agree with that. Wendy on the other hand...

Spoiler


I was thinking how well they’ve maintained Marty’s character throughout. He probably had less to say than any other season but felt completely right. His mini confession to Ben was pretty emotional even though on the face of it he just said he regrets the decision he made that got them here. Is that the first time he’s openly said it?

 

When they did the Marty in Mexico episode I was a bit worried it was going to be some sort of catalyst for Marty to lose the plot. The fact he seemed to find it cathartic showed what a mentally tough person he is...which makes sense when you consider what they have been through. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, El Geet said:

I would agree with that. Wendy on the other hand...

 

 

Yeah absolutely, Wendy is far more emotionally calculating. The interplay between the two is suberbly well handled.

 

Spoiler

I just think Ruth is being short changed currently, just for the sake of pushing the narrative in a certain direction. For a character that has been built up as street smart and calculating/clever, she's betraying that side of herself. Darlene's manipulations are pretty one note and I'd of expected Ruth to have suspicians and misgivings. Of course this could all be a feint on Ruth's (and the writers) part, which I'm secretly hoping for. I'd also like to see season 4 start off almost exactly where we left it in s3. With the Byrde's coming home and Marty getting a text from Ruth saying to watch his back with Helen. Now that would be giving her character the credit she deserves and paying back the little doorway scene between her and Helen earlier! :)

 

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10 hours ago, gizmo1990 said:

 

Yeah absolutely, Wendy is far more emotionally calculating. The interplay between the two is suberbly well handled.

 

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I just think Ruth is being short changed currently, just for the sake of pushing the narrative in a certain direction. For a character that has been built up as street smart and calculating/clever, she's betraying that side of herself. Darlene's manipulations are pretty one note and I'd of expected Ruth to have suspicians and misgivings. Of course this could all be a feint on Ruth's (and the writers) part, which I'm secretly hoping for. I'd also like to see season 4 start off almost exactly where we left it in s3. With the Byrde's coming home and Marty getting a text from Ruth saying to watch his back with Helen. Now that would be giving her character the credit she deserves and paying back the little doorway scene between her and Helen earlier! :)

 

Spoiler

 

I also hope she reconciles with Marty! I thought that it might be Ruth who calles Marty and stop them getting on the plane after the doorway scene. I also thought that was a bit of a dumb scene. Why would Helen show her hand to Ruth unnecessarily? I think that was a great little diversion tactic from the writers. Made the end of the season so much more unexpected.


I think also that Ruth has been through the mill and isn’t superhuman plus she has a genuine opportunity to build something with Wyatt...assuming she can handle Darlene.  It’s poised quite nicely for next season although I hope we’re not in for a season of Jonah losing the plot and becoming like his uncle. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, El Geet said:
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I also hope she reconciles with Marty! I thought that it might be Ruth who calles Marty and stop them getting on the plane after the doorway scene. I also thought that was a bit of a dumb scene. Why would Helen show her hand to Ruth unnecessarily? I think that was a great little diversion tactic from the writers. Made the end of the season so much more unexpected.


I think also that Ruth has been through the mill and isn’t superhuman plus she has a genuine opportunity to build something with Wyatt...assuming she can handle Darlene.  It’s poised quite nicely for next season although I hope we’re not in for a season of Jonah losing the plot and becoming like his uncle. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah it did seem odd that, especially considering what Helen had witnessed earlier. My other favourite scene of the series (other than the badass scene with Marty telling Frank to fuck off) came when Ruth comes and hugs Marty in the boardroom. The look on Helen's face said volumes. She (and Wendy, although Wendy already knew) realised at that moment how much Ruth was invested in and cared for Marty. So so good.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

This show could be up there with the Sopranos if it the plot didn’t get so crazy and it was more realistic. It’s frustrating as there is a lot of quality there. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Re - a fourth season.

 

Glad there’s a set end point. No need to over-extend it, and get diminishing returns. Now the writers have a generous amount of episodes to reach a satisfactory end. Stick the landing and it’ll be cemented among the best things Netflix has produced.

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2 hours ago, glb said:

Re - a fourth season.

 

Glad there’s a set end point. No need to over-extend it, and get diminishing returns. Now the writers have a generous amount of episodes to reach a satisfactory end. Stick the landing and it’ll be cemented among the best things Netflix has produced.


Totally agree. I’ve really enjoyed it so far but as with lots of TV I’ve had that constant concern they could stretch it out for years and fizzle to an ending. Looking forward to seeing how they wrap it up.

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that is a good shout on Ozark - a good run to get some stories going and tied off - these series where the leads are in constant peril do need to be shorter as its hard to imagine 8 seasons of them coming up with Baldrick like cunning plans to thwart or hold off the cartel.

 

 

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