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Joker origin film - Joaquin Phoenix Confirmed

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2 minutes ago, The Bag said:

 

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I’m not buying that since it’s two different actresses in two different credited roles.

 


 

Also when they did do fantasy sequences they were really heavy handed with it, even going back to the scenes with Zazie Beetz to make sure you understand it was all in his head.  So I’m not sure I buy the entire thing was in his head either.

 

 

 

I don't think he meant

 

Spoiler

it was the same actress in older makeup, more that Arthur was creating a character based on her.

 

But also that's the whole point, the other stuff was so heavy handed meaning the idea of it all being in his head isn't, it's left to interpretation. I need to see it again, but there are definitely hints that it's not real.

 

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8 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

I don't think he meant

 

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it was the same actress in older makeup, more that Arthur was creating a character based on her.

 

But also that's the whole point, the other stuff was so heavy handed meaning the idea of it all being in his head isn't, it's left to interpretation. I need to see it again, but there are definitely hints that it's not real.

 

 

Basically what Stigweard said.

 

I'm going to go see it again this week to look at a few of the things others have mentioned in this thread.

 

One scene that hasn't been mentioned a lot is,

 

Spoiler

When he climbed into the fridge, to i assume cry so the neighbours didn't hear him. 

 

I found that a very powerful image, again left to the audience to make ours minds up why he was going into the fridge.. 

 

 

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Saw the film on friday. Was incredible. 

 

Some idiot woman asked her boyfriend when leaving the cinema "is that a true story? "

 

I burst out laughing like the joker followed by a "fucking hell"

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I seem to be the only person disappointed 

 

Spoiler

there's not much eventual Joker in the film. We've seen Phoenix play deformed wounded before, he's the best in the world at doing it, and i think his acting in The Master is some of the greatest of all time. The cinematography is exceptional, the way Phillips enhances Phoenix's morbid physicality is stunning. It starts with him just leaning over at work and carries on from there, constantly contorting his body in ugly ways. 

 

Phoenix is so good i wanted to see him go all out. The short teaser clip where he's facing the camera and smiling then raises his eyebrow to go serious is so menacing and fully transformational it was really that which i was excited about seeing. People will say; well we've already seen that full on unhinged Joker, but we've not seen Phoenix do it. I don't want to see him robbing banks, i want to see him be frightening. I loved when De Niro's character says; 'what did i do?', and Phoenix replies 'you showed my tape', the way he says it. His eyes vibrating with an anger and agony. The way he inhabits characters, transmits their turmoil. 

 

There's a lot of The Machinist in there, slow lingering shots of him in his flat wasting away, the outside scenes not knowing what is real and what isn't. At what point were people sure the neighbour becoming his girlfriend was false. I thought she was entirely fictional, the bit where he knocks on her door and she embraces him the point it became obvious it was his fantasy. 

 

The film is kind of what i expected from Phillips. Maybe less of a brooding atmosphere and more Joker. Phillips said this film wasn't about introducing Joaquin Phoenix to the comic-book universe, but to introduce comic-book movies to the Joaquin Phoenix universe, i liked that way of putting it. 

 

The film builds towards Joker being interviewed and point blank executing the tv host he once adored, did it need for him to hit so many lows for us to believe that outcome was inevitable. It builds and builds until i thought it's never gonna get there. I found the end flat, the riots and protesters don't ever interact with Joker, the film doesn't spend any time fleshing that out, then when he becomes their hero it's only effective because of Phoenix's acting, again the look in his eyes, how rejuvenated he feels.

 

I'd probably give it a 7, it needed to go up a level for me, escalate. Like mother!, and that's just set in a house, and look at where that goes. Phillips talks like someone who doesn't hold back, like wanting to be brazen and bold. The clearest thing about his War Dogs was how unambitious and safe it was about a story that was so insane. And again here, so much of the character study impressive, the use of music, the slow zooms in and out, but he's still failing to be bold I think. 

 

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10 hours ago, Strafe said:


Pretty much spot on. Performance aside, the best idea of the film was how a garbage strike snowballed into public unrest.

 

That aside, it was a pretty lazy and I can’t think of any part of it that I didn’t see coming.

 

In terms of reflecting back on society, there’s a bit where

 

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An ex colleague, a midget, is trapped inside his apartment after Joker killed another colleague when they came to call.

 

The door chain is on and the midget can’t reach it to get out. Half the cinema was in howls of laughter at this bit and I thought it was probably the most harrowing part. So I think if you found that bit funny you’d probably like the film.

 


 

Spoiler

Midget isn’t a cool term to use. 

 

I watched that bit and just felt sorry for him and I loved the film. The audience reaction in the showing I was at was just a groan at the shit situation he was in. Sounds like maybe yours had some dickheads in.

 

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Jaoquin Phoenix, I have never ever seen that much over acting in my life (and I grew up watching Bollywood movies)

 

Still a great movie, to the critics its a comic book guys.

 

 

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Well, this was pretty wild. Quite a gripping couple of hours. I'd like to say I really enjoyed it, but that's not the right word. Time well spent though, and easily my favourite post Nolan DC film. Todd Philips is a bit of a clumsy director, he doesn't really trust the audience enough, but the film didn't suffer too much because of it. 

Joker stuff:

 

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I think they really nailed The Joker in a lot of ways. Mostly Arthur's demeanor after he more or less decides to embrace his insanity and lack of remorse, the latter of which seems to come as a pleasant surprise to him. He's only really in control when he fully lets go. That's the comic Joker in a nutshell.

On my post watch youtube travels I watched this doc on the history of the Joker. It's pretty good, but the best thing about is the absolute burn on Leto's Joker, at about 11:45:

 

 

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2 hours ago, mansizerooster said:

So do you think the director just didn't know about Gary Glitter?

 

 

 

Who knows, it was definitely odd while watching it to hear Glitter convicted paedo in the cinema whilst also living near me. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, mansizerooster said:

So do you think the director just didn't know about Gary Glitter?

They still play Gary Glitter at NHL games, so maybe America just don't realise he is a massive paedo.

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I saw this again today and was slightly worried it may have shrunk on a second viewing but I enjoyed it more.

 

The first half is very tight, not a single scene I didn't enjoy more second time around. But noticeably

 

Spoiler

the scenes about his possible link to Thomas Wayne are the weakest. Fortunately these are very short and while not bad in themselves don't have the artistic merit of everything else.

 

I was with a much larger audience today and the black humour came across better, with noticable laughter towards the end. First time I wasn't sure if it was just me finding some of the bleaker parts funny.

 

It does what all good cinema does - take you blissfully out of the real world for a couple of hours and immerse you in a fantasy that is utterly compelling. I was thinking of nothing but this for the duration; it really doesn't let up.

 

My favourite scenes:

 

Spoiler

are all to do with his posture and gradual transformation into a monster. It's a kind of tortured ballet where Phoenix contorts into these wonderful shapes to the strains of heavy violin.

 

The part where he rehearses his interview with Murray (a nod to The King of Comedy) but doesn't have the chutzpah to pull it off is amazing second time around.

 

And then we see him backstage before the show, behind the curtains, and he begins to transform his body shape ready for the battle ahead. The two stage-hands look at him like he's a freak (because he is). Spine-chilling.

 

The colour palette in this movie is terrific too. I love that Murray's gaudy stage drapes match the suit Joker eventually choses.

 

And that scene on the stairs. Magnificent. Surely wherever that staircase is it's going to be the new Philadelphia steps from Rocky. Tourists queing up to get a photo or film clip.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

They still play Gary Glitter at NHL games, so maybe America just don't realise he is a massive paedo.


or care

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1 hour ago, Charliemouse said:

They still play Gary Glitter at NHL games, so maybe America just don't realise he is a massive paedo.

Canada too. I recall regaling my Canadian friends with tales of Gary when the told me their goal song was the "come on, come on" refrain. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Strafe said:


or care

I think that's it. I didn't even recognise it as a song, just thought it was stadium music like that "CHARGE" song you hear over the tannoy.

 

He was first convicted over twenty years ago, he was irrelevant long before that so I think most people these days wouldn't even put the two together. 

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I enjoyed it, but it’s bloody tense all the way through. Interesting that a lot of the uproar from reviewers is because they see having poor and dispossessed people hold ‘kill the rich’ signs as socially irresponsible,  whereas it just reflects society.

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I don’t quite get why 

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The murder of 3 businessmen (are they meant to be bankers?), by some unknown dude is the main catalyst for the riot. 
 

It’s a stretch that a society is that fucked up that people, upon hearing of a (from their perspective) senseless slaughtering of 3 innocent people taking the subway home would rally people into protest.

 

If joker had been a cop that would make sense - look at Mark Duggan or Rodney King - but some dude in a creepy outfit killing 3 people for no apparent reason doesn’t seem like cause for civil unrest to me. 

 

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@Strafe 

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Because the murders highlighted the class gap and mentality of those with money looking down on poorer people. The victims were employees of Wayne Industries, and despite not knowing who the perpetrator was, Thomas Wayne made the assumption that it was a commoner, jealous of the money and success of the three employees.

 

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22 minutes ago, Thwomp said:

@Strafe 

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Because the murders highlighted the class gap and mentality of those with money looking down on poorer people. The victims were employees of Wayne Industries, and despite not knowing who the perpetrator was, Thomas Wayne made the assumption that it was a commoner, jealous of the money and success of the three employees.

 


Ah yes. Misjudged (I’d probably true) but still, can’t imagine it causing a ruck like that considering the context.

 

Ra’s Al Ghul was right, fuck Gotham.

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1 minute ago, Mawdlin said:

One girl standing outside a building in Stockholm could never start a movement. ;-)


Yeah, might have missed the bit where Greta and her Pals set fire to the business district.

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7 minutes ago, Strafe said:


Ah yes. Misjudged (I’d probably true) but still, can’t imagine it causing a ruck like that considering the context.

 

Ra’s Al Ghul was right, fuck Gotham.

 

It wasn't just that though, there was all the unrest over the budget cuts to public services. It was a lot of things brought to a head by Wayne's insensitive remarks.

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21 minutes ago, Thwomp said:

 

It wasn't just that though, there was all the unrest over the budget cuts to public services. It was a lot of things brought to a head by Wayne's insensitive remarks.


Yeah, I get that. It’s just an odd spark, isn’t it? 

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Also

Spoiler

it's all in his head, the narrative plays out however he wants it to.

 

This is what I'm sticking too.

 

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21 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Yeah, I get that. It’s just an odd spark, isn’t it? 

Nope. Saw it a second time today. 

 

Spoiler

In an interview, Thomas Wayne laments the deaths of the three, specifically commenting on the cowardice of hiding behind a clown mask, and then goes on to specifically say that "those who've made something of themselves will always look at those who haven't, as clowns". 

 

It's that final comment that incites the masses to dress as clowns. 

 

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

Nope. Saw it a second time today. 

 

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In an interview, Thomas Wayne laments the deaths of the three, specifically commenting on the cowardice of hiding behind a clown mask, and then goes on to specifically say that "those who've made something of themselves will always look at those who haven't, as clowns". 

 

It's that final comment that incites the masses to dress as clowns. 

 

 

Spoiler

Yes, I know. I get it’s a twatish thing to say but I just didn’t really buy into it that it would cause everyone to slash and burn given the context (3 people have just been murdered, he isn’t actually a politician).

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I get the impression that the city

was on the brink before hand anyway ( just watched that video linked above and even when you first meet Arthur you hear a radio report talking about how there was tons of garbage pilling up) that civil unrest was on the cards, but the clown killing rich people just gave it an identity.

 

 

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