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Joker origin film - Joaquin Phoenix Confirmed


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7 hours ago, Stevie said:

:lol:

 

(I love Graham Norton)

 

It's weird and probably needs it's own thread, but I think the mechanic of Graham Norton's show has become a bit obvious and threadbare. It'd be nice to have some chat show where celebs actually are interviewed as opposed to just being PR to show they're sound and funny.

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TRAGEDY!!!! WHEN YOU GET REAL OLD AND YOU GET REAL COLD, TRAGEDY!!!!

 

I remember I spent a while one lunchtime finding a bollard that some degenerate on efukt had filmed himself being sodomised by so I could get a photo next to it. Then later I realised it was the wrong bollard. That was a real tragedy.

 

 

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On 20/10/2019 at 11:41, Stigweard said:

Do you really think anyones going to come out this film and immediately think everyone with a mental illness is going to go on a killing spree?

I don't think anyone really thinks that, but the film doesn't do much to break away from the stereotype that mentally ill people eventually cause violence. 

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47 minutes ago, robdood said:

I don't think anyone really thinks that, but the film doesn't do much to break away from the stereotype that mentally ill people eventually cause violence. 

 

The way people are reacting to it you wouldnt know that, but also neither does every other film in the history of cinema that has portrayed dangerous mentally ill people. But this movie is somehow the whipping boy.

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14 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

The way people are reacting to it you wpuldnt know that, but also neither does every other film in the history of cinema that has portrayed dangerous mentally ill people. But this movie is somehow the whipping boy.

Totally!  I really loved watching this movie, it was gripping and proper drew me in for the duration.  But the more I think about it, the more I feel the mental health / anti establishment themes were a bit flimsy and not really explored in any meaningful way, which seems a bit of a shame. 

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17 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

The way people are reacting to it you wpuldnt know that, but also neither does every other film in the history of cinema that has portrayed dangerous mentally ill people. But this movie is somehow the whipping boy.

 

It's probably because this film purports to be a damning indictment of the state of mental health provision, but does it by showing a guy with mental illness murdering several people and then subsequently turning into the Joker.

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Exactly, Arthur doesn't even seem bothered that his healthcare provision is removed, I mean, it seemed pretty lacklustre in the first place.  Had he even been taking his meds?  I felt it was a bit blurry as Arthur himself was a pretty unreliable narrator. 

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Thought this was fantastic. I could write a lot about this, but, well, it's probably all been said. Touching, brutal, sad... If he doesn't get an Oscar nod, at the least, something is very wrong 

 

Only thing I thought they could have done better is...

Spoiler

The shooting of Thomas Wayne. It felt really out of place, and as every scene had Arthur in it, this could have been done better. Maybe had him drive past the alley and just see Bruce stood there. It could have been more subtly done.

 

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Saw the film on Wednesday - loved it. Thought JP delivered an amazing performance, well worthy of an Oscar nom. I quite like that a couple of bits had been lifted from Dark Knight Returns and Killing Joke, or were at least similar enough for me to notice them, but then blurred with new material so it wasn’t too on the nose.

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On 22/10/2019 at 07:47, sir stiff_one said:

His mother is a victim no doubt, she’s very ill. But are you suggesting that she’s telling the truth re the link between them? I agree they leave it a bit grey, no one is supposed to believe her because she’s an unstable individual, but there could be some element of truth about any of her claims hidden there and it wouldn’t matter.

 

The way that several scenes play out lend credibility to her story. I believe the photo of what appeared to be the her and Wayne, with a hand written note on the back “Love you, TW” was surely supposed to be confirmation?

 

 

 

 

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It was

'Love your smile'

. But also, it's no confirmation. It's also more reminiscent of the things she purportedly said to young Arthur.

 

She's unreliable. He's unreliable. The depiction on screen is unreliable.

 

For me



the biggest confirmation that there was no affair is that making the Joker Batman's half brother is fucking stupid. And it supercedes everything else the film is trying to do with the character if you go with it.

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4 hours ago, kthxbliz said:

 

The way that several scenes play out lend credibility to her story. I believe the photo of what appeared to be the her and Wayne, with a hand written note on the back “Love you, TW” was surely supposed to be confirmation?

 

 

 

 

Why would he ever put that in writing though? I think it’s super ambiguous but sort of demands that you make a choice.

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13 minutes ago, sir stiff_one said:

Why would he ever put that in writing though? I think it’s super ambiguous but sort of demands that you make a choice.

 

Well I could address that question directly but I think your question is really a result of having not taking the scene I mention on face value, and then I could only really presume what it was you felt was going on (I’m sure I have an idea but won’t put words in your mouth).

 

The film was intellectually deeper; more character development and dialogue focussed than other similar films and other films in the series, but it is still - in my view - designed to give it’s typical (and perhaps younger) viewers enough to keep them in tow. 

 

For example, despite a few subtle cues already, during the scene where they revealed that the interactions with the neighbour had been hallucinations, they used not one but iirc three flashback scenes to hammer the message home, and I felt this was just the more extreme example of the above. But with that in mind, yes, I took the photograph scene at face value.

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On 25/10/2019 at 16:45, grindmouse said:

Another week, another mailbag of cringe, unhinged correspondence Kermode and Mayo which they validate with praise.

 

 

You mean the one where the guy who lost his friend to suicide poured his heart out about it and managed to find some solice in the film. Its not up to me to say how or why he did, but it's clearly worked for this gentleman. Cringe indeed :rolleyes:

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Watched the film last night and adored it.

 

Not since Taxi Driver have I been so disgusted by a character yet at the same time, so sympathetic to their situation and rooting for them, despite the atrocity they're inflicting on others as some of them are as broken as he is. That conflict is centeral to the movie for me; Unease of how the character is finding his way through what's thrown at him, but believability in the scenarios and how he got there. I've not seen such a delightfully and repellent film in such a long time.

 

Spoiler

 

Like others here, I felt their was no need to show the flashbacks of Joker imagining the girl with him as I already felt something was up after he kissed her in full make up after killing those 3 would-be rapists on the train. Little slip ups like that either make me feel the Director wasn't sure the audiance were getting the subtlety or he was forced to include it.

 

And that Gary Glitter song... When it came on I laughed through clenched teeth, especially when Joker starts dancing as yes it's a funky track, but we all know the history of Glitter. After that shock, the movie started to come together for me; Finding a sense of fun, freedom and swagger in the absolute worst of humanity through Joker. Once I made that connection, I started to form my own interpretation of the film and what the Director was going for. Once I got that, it all just clicked and the actions just felt right for the forming of the character in later life.

 

 

Despite reading all the major comic books, games and films of the Batman universe, I've always felt Joker can't exist without Batman. This is the first work of art that presented him as-is and I fully understood his motivations, no matter how twisted, and despite a few rough edges, I'm still buzzing how well rounded, revolting and exciting they made Jack (Sorry, Arthur) in this new interpretation.

 

Overall, I just loved it. :wub:

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Who the heck knows Gary Glitter songs? I'm pretty old and he was long gone by the time I was a teenager. I had no idea until coming on here that a song of his was in the movie, nor which song it even was. 

 

As as for the film, I thought it was brilliant, if rather slow in places (my wife fell asleep for a good 30 minutes). I think Phoenix was staggering if not quite up to Ledger (but then, his performance is my favourite supporting performance of all time). 

 

I did feel that it was a bit of a remake of The King of Comedy and De Niro felt like a bit of stunt casting, even though he was the best he's been in years (possibly since Stardust). 

 

The script was first rate and the cinematography and editing were sublime. 

 

4.5/5 from me. Might go to a 5/5 on rewatches (although I'm finding most modern films go down in my ratings with rewatches, although Rogue One has got better with each rewatch)

 

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3 minutes ago, sandman said:

Who the heck knows Gary Glitter songs? I'm pretty old and he was long gone by the time I was a teenager. I had no idea until coming on here that a song of his was in the movie, nor which song it even was. 

Lots of people know Glitter songs. Just because his career may have been largely over when you were a teen doesn't mean his songs just somehow disappear. People even know songs from musicians who are actually dead! Imagine that!!

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