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Joker origin film - Joaquin Phoenix Confirmed

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On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 16:06, JohnC said:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joker-sequel-works-as-todd-phillips-eyes-more-dc-origin-movies-1256255

 

Looks like they're going ahead with a sequel. And it seems Phillips has the rights to at least one other DC story. 

 

I don't know. This seems like it should be a standalone movie.

I think the most depressing thing in that article is that Aquaman made $1.15bn

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On 17/11/2019 at 23:25, Rudderless said:

Finally caught up with this, and found it a crushing disappointment

Glad I'm not the only one. I think I only felt anything during the final interview everything else was lifeless.

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I watched this last night, it was very enjoyable, engaging - I didn't start to nod off as I often do with modern cinema 'big' movies. Acting was incredible.

 

BUT

 

I have certainly seen this movie before. We all have. I guess it's fair enough to reboot King of Comedy for modern cinemas, and people (me included) would be massively irked if someone announced they were remaking that (or Taxi Driver). So I can go along with it. And including De Niro sort of indicated they knew what they were doing and acknowledged it.

 

One thing I haven't seen discussed so possibly I missed it -

 

Did he murder the girl down the hall with her daughter? It cuts from her asking him to leave her apartment from a distance, to him dancing down the hall. As far as I could tell he broke into that dance after all the other moments of violence which to me implies they were killed.

 

The scene with the little guy was absolutely harrowing for me and I was quite shocked to read about people laughing in cinemas and others finding it amusing. Makes me think of those assholes at school who partially crushed bugs to watch them die in amusement. 

 

And of course, the most jarring moment of the movie - not the alleyway pearls scene (that's number two) but that bit where I was like "what's this T-rex song, I know this one... oh wait. WTF." Baffling choice and implies to me the director doesn't know his shit.

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@Darwock - I just finished watching this and thought exactly the same about that song - is this The Sweet?  Slade? Surely it's not…holy fuck it IS. It must have been deliberate. Absolutely no way would that song have been cleared without the director knowing the origin of the song.

 

 

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I thought the same thing at first but apparently that song is played during NFL games, so there's a cultural relevance there for American audiences that doesn't translate at all well for people in the UK.

 

Spoiler

@Darwock Phillips has said that she survives.

 

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26 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

@Darwock - I just finished watching this and thought exactly the same about that song - is this The Sweet?  Slade? Surely it's not…holy fuck it IS. It must have been deliberate. Absolutely no way would that song have been cleared without the director knowing the origin of the song.

 

 

 

But he's edgy, man.

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13 hours ago, Darwock said:

 

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Did he murder the girl down the hall with her daughter? It cuts from her asking him to leave her apartment from a distance, to him dancing down the hall. As far as I could tell he broke into that dance after all the other moments of violence which to me implies they were killed.

 

 

Nope. There was a recent DVD extra that cleared that up. 

 

Spoiler

“Todd makes it clear she wasn’t killed,” Sher said about the mystery. “Arthur is killing people who’ve wronged him in a certain way, and Sophie never wronged him.”

 

Talking of insight that has come out since the film opened. This one by Kevin Smith is really intriguing regarding to how the film originally was intended to finish;

 

Spoiler

 

Quote

“Originally, the ending in the hospital was different,” Smith said. “He’s in the hospital and he laughs, chuckles, and he says, ‘I was just thinking of something funny.’ What was supposed to happen was you flashed back to the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne and it was him killing Thomas and Martha Wayne and the boy was screaming and crying and he turned to walk away and he turned back, shrugged, and shot the kid. Credits.”

 

I think that would have been so incredibly powerful. Almost like a cementing of this being a standalone film rather than a series. However, I think had it gone that way there would have been no avoiding it on the internet, there would have been memes and jokes everywhere ruining the shock for a lot of people who didn't watch it in the opening week/s.Then of course you can also understand why producers wouldn't be on board either.

 

 

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I think that ending would only have further served to convince everyone that the whole thing was a fantasy in his head. 

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Would have been a bold move, but would have completely removed the film from canon and almost certainly ruled the film out of any sequels.

 

I am surprised they've green lit a sequel to this though. In a business sense, it's a no-brainer of course, but artistically, they have very few credible paths to go down. If it retains the same creative team, then that's at least an indication that great care will be taken not to undo the impact of this first film but a huge part of the films appeal is seeing Joker's journey into madness unfurl. Now that we've seen him make that leap, I'm not sure if anything which follows from that will be as compelling to watch. We'll see I guess.

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Has it been greenlit now? It seemed only recently Todd was talking about ONLY doing it if they had a strong compelling reason to story-wise, find it hard to imagine he has gone from that to getting it greenlit in such a short space of time? I also really can't see Phoenix doing a sequel, actually has he EVER done a sequel? 

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8 minutes ago, Capwn said:

Has it been greenlit now? It seemed only recently Todd was talking about ONLY doing it if they had a strong compelling reason to story-wise, find it hard to imagine he has gone from that to getting it greenlit in such a short space of time? I also really can't see Phoenix doing a sequel, actually has he EVER done a sequel? 

 

A huge bag of money so his children never have to work is a pretty compelling reason.

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8 hours ago, Robo_1 said:

Would have been a bold move, but would have completely removed the film from canon and almost certainly ruled the film out of any sequels.

 

I am surprised they've green lit a sequel to this though. In a business sense, it's a no-brainer of course, but artistically, they have very few credible paths to go down. If it retains the same creative team, then that's at least an indication that great care will be taken not to undo the impact of this first film but a huge part of the films appeal is seeing Joker's journey into madness unfurl. Now that we've seen him make that leap, I'm not sure if anything which follows from that will be as compelling to watch. We'll see I guess.

 

They could just adapt the "Joker terrorises Gotham with a sniper rifle" plot from Gotham Central with a police procedural storyline running through it and I'd be there on day one. I imagine the sequel will go some way toward redefining him from being an outsider with a following to a real villain.

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12 minutes ago, DeciderVT said:

 

They could just adapt the "Joker terrorises Gotham with a sniper rifle" plot from Gotham Central with a police procedural storyline running through it and I'd be there on day one. I imagine the sequel will go some way toward redefining him from being an outsider with a following to a real villain.

 

That would make for a good basis for a sequel actually. As I say, with the original creative team on board there's reason to look forward to a sequel, but it's clear what's driving the existence of one. I'll doubtless be there to see what they've come up with too.

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9 hours ago, Robo_1 said:

Would have been a bold move, but would have completely removed the film from canon and almost certainly ruled the film out of any sequels.

You can't remove it from something it clearly isn't part of. 

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On 06/01/2020 at 09:35, Robo_1 said:

Would have been a bold move, but would have completely removed the film from canon and almost certainly ruled the film out of any sequels.

 

it could have been the first in a series of grimdark movies set in the Dark Multiverse

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The only place for this to go is full Frank Miller Dark Knight Strikes Again madness.

 

It won't, as Mr Combo Breaker says, it'll just be grimdark stuff. Wonder what films it'll lift from this time?

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Finally watched this last night, as I couldn't muster any enthusiasm to go and see it theatrically. 

 

Wish I hadn't bothered. 

 

To quote BoJack Horseman, "It has nothing to say and it says that nothing badly"

 

I loathed this moronic piece of shit.

 

That this won the fucking Golden Lion proves that we truly do live in a society.

 

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I'm not sure what makes Joker any different from other films that dominate awards, in that regard. His article came across as a disproportionately scathing moan, simply because he didn't like it.

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Just now, DeciderVT said:

I'm not sure what makes Joker any different from other films that dominate awards, in that regard. His article came across as a disproportionately scathing moan, simply because he didn't like it.

 

Well, given the (perfectly understandable) complaints about the awards' lack of diversity, it's natural for him to single out the film that he believes could most easily have been replaced. 

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Just now, Rudderless said:

 

Well, given the (perfectly understandable) complaints about the awards' lack of diversity, it's natural for him to single out the film that he believes could most easily have been replaced. 

 

I don't buy that, really. He might be right about the lack of diversity but he's having a strop.

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Joker really does continue to sit in this weird place where it's not enough of a comic superhero film for those who really like comic superhero films but not substantial enough for those who think it can ever possibly be authentic in expressing real themes. Why is it not possible to simply view it as a welcome shift in how to make a superhero film in a genre that is devoid of inspiration. What they did was interesting. Maybe there's a more explosive film in there. It's funny, I listen to the /filmcast a lot, and massive Marvel nerd Jeff Cannata was so bewildered by it, like he couldn't grasp what the point of it was. I'd like to think anyone would enjoy the acting, cinematography and score, all of which are genuinely outstanding. There you go, 3 reasons. I mean of course its superficial, it's a film based on a comic book character. Any 5 seconds of this film is more enjoyable to me than the superhero confection that's regularly churned out.

 

I'll probably like it more in time if there is a sequel. I'm not even going to argue on this. I want to see Joaquin Phoenix go full Joker, of course. None of this preciousness about holding back in retaining the grounded realness of this film to divert away from the typical interpretation of Joker. As long as they retain the tone, well judge every escalation of his personality. What I read is Phoenix wasn't interested in signing years away to sequels, then half way through Joker realised there's so much more he'd love to do with it. I think it could be an epic trilogy.

 

There are so many modern films with horrific cinematography that don't even try to ground anything in a reality. I think a film like this which goes against the tide of awfulness in its commitment to the tone it tries to capture can never be something worthy of hate. Todd Phillips tries. He's not an auteur. I don't think it's a masterpiece, i don't think it's a great film. I think it has exceptional stuff in it though. And it deserves all those Bafta nominations except screenplay.

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1 hour ago, John Edward Gammell said:

Finally watched this last night, as I couldn't muster any enthusiasm to go and see it theatrically. 

 

Wish I hadn't bothered. 

 

To quote BoJack Horseman, "It has nothing to say and it says that nothing badly"

 

I loathed this moronic piece of shit.

 

That this won the fucking Golden Lion proves that we truly do live in a society.

 

Do you like Taxi Driver?

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