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Harvey Weinstein and other Hollywood predators


kerraig UK
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Look, if you start masturbating in front of someone and they haven't said "OK let's do that" or words to that effect, there is no consent and it's a form of sexual assault.

 

That's all there is to it. 

 

I'm sorry that the above doesn't fit with some people's outdated views, but it's really simple. 

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During Ms. Goodman and Ms. Wolov’s surreal visit to Louis C.K.’s Aspen hotel room, they said they were holding onto each other, screaming and laughing in shock, as Louis C.K. masturbated in a chair. “We were paralyzed,” Ms. Goodman said. After he ejaculated on his stomach, they said, they fled. He called after them: “He was like, ‘Which one is Dana and which one is Julia?’” Ms. Goodman recalled.

 

Afterward, they ran into Charna Halpern, the owner of influential improv theaters in Los Angeles and Chicago, where Ms. Goodman and Ms. Wolov performed, and relayed what had happened. “I didn’t know what to do, I didn’t know what to tell them to do,” said Ms. Halpern. Ms. Goodman and Ms. Wolov decided against going to the police, unsure whether what happened was criminal, but felt they had to respond in some way “because something crazy happened to us,” Ms. Goodman said.

 

Hoping that outrage would build against Louis C.K., and also to shame him, they began telling others about the incident the next day. But many people seemed to recoil, they said. “Guys were backing away from us,” Ms. Wolov said. Barely 24 hours after they left Louis C.K.’s hotel, “we could already feel the backlash.”

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Now I'm going to guess if they were frozen in shock, and ran the fuck out without doing anything else and started telling people, it probably wasn't consensual

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Just now, Wickedkitten said:

 

 

Now I'm going to guess if they were frozen in shock, and ran the fuck out without doing anything else and started telling people, it probably wasn't consensual

 

I'd agree with that, but for the part that says they hung around until he finished. I mean, paralysed is a handy word to use, but I'd be far more inclined to think that if they really had a problem, they wouldn't have hung around.

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1 minute ago, futureshock said:

 

I'd agree with that, but for the part that says they hung around until he finished. I mean, paralysed is a handy word to use, but I'd be far more inclined to think that if they really had a problem, they wouldn't have hung around.

 

That isn't how it works when someone does some unexpected shit like that and them not running away does not mean they consented either

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1 minute ago, futureshock said:

I'm saying there was more communication other than a laugh, and all the nuance and detail of late night drinks back at hotel room is missing with the description "they laughed"

 

I'm pretty sure Louis CK would have said that they consented if they did. Why wouldn't he? It appears that they didn't, he just went ahead and did something totally wrong. 

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24 minutes ago, futureshock said:

 

"I'm a piece of shit" is probably his most repeated line. I'm not arguing that, and neither is he. It's still not assault.

And I'm not saying he had no power before 2007, I'm saying it's night and day compared to the power after 2007. Totally incomparable.

 

Yet he himself stated that he used his power and influence to orchestrate these situations. From the horses mouth so to speak.

 

You seemed determined not to call it sexual assault, but you haven't said how you'd describe it. It sounds a bit like you're saying, look, at least he didn't rape them. Playing it down and apologising for him.

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3 minutes ago, futureshock said:

I'd agree with that, but for the part that says they hung around until he finished. I mean, paralysed is a handy word to use, but I'd be far more inclined to think that if they really had a problem, they wouldn't have hung around.

 

Ah we're back to the old 'they didn't say anything at the time, they must have liked it or were OK with it' line. That one doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. 

 

There are loads and loads of good reasons why people who are sexually assaulted don't feel able to speak up at the time. In fact, I'd say that's perfectly normal and understandable behaviour. 

 

It's simple: Wrong is wrong. The reaction of them has nothing to do with his action, unless of course they consented. Which they didn't. 

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3 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Yet he himself stated that he used his power and influence to orchestrate these situations. From the horses mouth so to speak.

 

 

Sure, but anybody who's followed him knows he's been on that male feminist bandwagon these last few years, so of course he'd say that now. 

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8 minutes ago, futureshock said:

I'd agree with that, but for the part that says they hung around until he finished. I mean, paralysed is a handy word to use, but I'd be far more inclined to think that if they really had a problem, they wouldn't have hung around.

 

Why is it handy? 

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1 minute ago, futureshock said:

 

Sure, but anybody who's followed him knows he's been on that male feminist bandwagon these last few years, so of course he'd say that now. 

 

Male feminist bandwagon? 

 

Ah, so you're just a prick who thinks this whole feminism stuff is a phase. 

 

It was simple after all, I thought there was a bit more to it than that!

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Just now, NickC said:

 

Male feminist bandwagon? 

 

Ah, so you're just a prick who thinks this whole feminism stuff is a phase. 

 

Nope, asshole. (See, I can call you names too!) I'm saying it's never a surprise when you see somebody become 'born again' so to speak - you only have to look at their past to see what they're trying to make amends for.

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9 minutes ago, futureshock said:

 

Sure, but anybody who's followed him knows he's been on that male feminist bandwagon these last few years, so of course he'd say that now. 

So he's giving them the benefit of the doubt in order to make himself appear more like a feminist whilst at the same time saying he used his power to sexually assault them? 

 

It just sounds like you don't want to believe it's true, and I can understand. It's a betrayal on his part, but I'm afraid we're going to have to take his confession as fact. There was no consent and he shouldn't have done it, by his own admission.

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4 minutes ago, Stanley said:

It just sounds like you don't want to believe it's true, and I can understand.

 

Oh god, no. I've met him. There isn't a doubt in my mind it isn't true. (should that read 'is true' or 'isn't true'? Either way, I don't doubt the reports.) I've always thought he was a pervert. 

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6 minutes ago, futureshock said:

 

Oh god, no. I've met him. There isn't a doubt in my mind it isn't true. (should that read 'is true' or 'isn't true'? Either way, I don't doubt the reports.) I've always thought he was a pervert. 

Did he masturbate in front of you? 

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24 minutes ago, futureshock said:

I'm saying it's never a surprise when you see somebody become 'born again' so to speak - you only have to look at their past to see what they're trying to make amends for.

 

Do you really think that's why men speak about feminism and gender imbalances? Because they have something to hide? 

 

All men are guilty of gaining from thousands of years of patriarchy. 

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4 minutes ago, NickC said:

 

Do you really think that's why men speak about feminism and gender imbalances? Because they have something to hide? 

 

No, it's not to hide anything, it's to ease the guilt, I usually find. The Louie story is proving that point remarkably well, too.

 

4 minutes ago, NickC said:

All men

 

Stop generalising the experiences of everybody.

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3 minutes ago, futureshock said:

Stop generalising the experiences of everybody.

 

No, all men have gained. Some have done things knowingly, others have benefited without realising it. Some things have been minor advantages in everyday life, some have been much worse abuses of power. 

 

You've gained, I've gained, Loius CK has gained, the Dali Lama has gained. We've all benefited from being men, in some way or another. 

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1 minute ago, NickC said:

 

No, all men have gained. Some have done things knowingly, others have benefited without realising it. Some things have been minor advantages in everyday life, some have been much worse abuses of power. 

 

You've gained, I've gained, Loius CK has gained, the Dali Lama has gained. We've all benefited from being men, in some way or another. 

 

You're talking shit. What if there's a boy born, and raped every day of his life until he killed himself at 15? Is he a gainer? ALL MEN! 

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7 minutes ago, futureshock said:

 

No, it's not to hide anything, it's to ease the guilt, I usually find. 

 

Oh, I'm sure it can ease guilt. But it's also because it's right. Putting the easing of male guilt first and foremost is really missing the point that people actually want change.

 

The ugly side of male history is of course catching up with them, as Loius CK is finding out, as we're all finding out.  

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1 minute ago, futureshock said:

You're talking shit. What if there's a boy born, and raped every day of his life until he killed himself at 15? Is he a gainer? ALL MEN! 

 

Christ you are spouting some desperate stuff. The patriarchy and male privilege exists. Your life will be better in the future if you accept this fact. 

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1 minute ago, NickC said:

 

Christ you are spouting some desperate stuff. The patriarchy and male privilege exists. Your life will be better in the future if you accept this fact. 

 

I'm not the one spouting drivel about ALL MEN, then refusing to acknowledge that an individual's experience matters. I'd love to know what heinous thing you've done in a past life that makes you this vocal. Yikes.

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Just now, grindmouse said:

@futureshock Louis CK has obviously abused his power in the industry to enact a weird fetish on his co-workers. That's a fact now, and we all agree on it.

There are other valid points of discussion to be had about this case and the others being exposed, but as you're discovering - there's no point trying to engage with this forum about it.

 

I agree, so I'm off to play that new Wolfenstein.

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16 hours ago, futureshock said:

 

I'm not the one spouting drivel about ALL MEN, then refusing to acknowledge that an individual's experience matters.

 

Where did I say that an individual's experience does not matter? Of course it does. Men can lead awful, tragic lives. I didn't say all men were living some kind of amazing life. 

 

But the fact is that as a man you are born with advantages that women do not have, and all men have gained from that, our society has a big imbalance that is hopefully shifting. Some men will take greater advantage of this fact than others. 

 

It's time to accept it and figure out how to redress things rather than avoid it by pointing toward silly made up stuff about hypothetical boys getting raped every day. 

 

The fear in your posts is palpable. No one's coming to get you. All men are not being attacked. It's not a weakness to accept the truth that men have had it better than women for a very long time and have knowingly or unknowingly been advantaged or acted to the detriment of women. Accepting this is an important step to figuring out ways to make the world more equal. 

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