The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[scottcr]

4 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Seemed a little odd not to show 

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Isildur

 

at the end or in the last two eps.

 

Spoiler

He’s stuck behind enemy lines now in Mordor. Suspect he’s going to follow Sauron for now on revenge against Adar, thinking him Halbrand… 

 

[Sarlaccfood]

10 hours ago, RJames said:

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A small touch, but I loved Celebrimbor’s Bilbo/Sméagol-esque hunger when Galadriel was asking him about what/why he was making the crowns/rings. Perfectly played.

 

Yes I loved that!

Spoiler

Sauron put his own essence into the One Ring after all, so it makes total sense he has the same effect on people, rather than just a cheap callback. 

 

[Benny]

Holy shit

 

Spoiler

Episode 6, the village siege episode. One of the most intense things I've seen on TV.

 

I found it really tough to watch in places as well: Orcs casually pushing swords into terrified people... It made for an incredibly horrifying episode.

 

I thought this might be something I could watch with my family but I honestly think that might be too much, as there was never anything as distressing in the Peter Jackson trilogy.

 

But yeah, Christ, then the ender for the episode. Mind blowing.

 

[Benny]

And my favourite bit of dialogue in the episode:

 

Spoiler

Galadriel doesn't tell Halbrand that he shouldn't seek revenge, because as we know her desire for vengeance is considerable. But she simply argues the Uruk would not be enough, with: "you cannot quench a thirst with sea water."

 

Excellent.

 

[footle]

Spoiler

There is no indication in the book/s that the Three Uncorrupted Rings make people lustful. I read Celembrior as being consumed by his art, though the end scene seemed to overplay towards the interpretation that you all have.

 

[Sarlaccfood]

51 minutes ago, DualSense said:

 

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I think that’s more the effect of Sauron rather than the rings there.  The elves rings are untainted.

 

Yeah that’s what I mean sorry. (I wrote “they” instead of “him”, I didn’t mean the rings) 

Spoiler

That later on in the story, the One Ring has the same affect on people as Sauron does in this show, because he put so much of himself in it. The power to corrupt was his, not an invention for the One Ring. 

 

[Benny]

Every bloody scene in episode 7 with

 

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Durin and Elrond is making my eyes wet. Their relationship is my favourite thing about this show.

 

[scottcr]

8 minutes ago, Benny said:

Every bloody scene in episode 7 with

 

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Durin and Elrond is making my eyes wet. Their relationship is my favourite thing about this show.

 

It’s the best thing

[ChewMagma]

This show was...fine. I almost enjoyed it, I guess. Maybe season 2 will be better?

 

Edit: reading back through the thread I'm genuinely surprised this got such a good reception here. Visually it was extremely well done, but beyond that I didn't find a lot else to enjoy about it. Most of the characters were fairly dull. The dialogue was hit and miss at best. I didn't like the violence, it felt like the influence of Game of Thrones and diluted its identity. A lot of the reveals and twists seemed rush.

[scottcr]

3 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

This show was...fine. I almost enjoyed it, I guess. Maybe season 2 will be better?

cool

[Pete]

I thought that last episode was brilliant, despite not really enjoying it much initially. A good pay off.

[Benny]

I do find it a bit weird that

 

Spoiler

Halbrand just turns up in the Southlands and is like, welp, guess I'm king then! And everyone loves it.

 

"Well I didn't vote for you!"

 

Anyway, those Moon Witches are total fucking dicks, eh.

 

I'm really enjoying how deep the subtext actually is with so many of these characters. They're definitely playing a little on what some viewers will know about from the books and background lore without beating anyone over the head with it.

 

One thing I am finding a bit hard going is there really is an awful lot of suffering at this point without much light like you get in the Jackson films. It's there but the tone is definitely swinging away from any of the whimsical stuff it may have started with. I'm hoping the season will end on a more hopeful note, despite knowing where everything is going.

 

[choddo]

I sort of agree with ChewMagma. It was decent (and visually spectacular) but there was bugger all in terms of character or relationship development. Everything was rushing from one plot point to the next, and waaaay too much time was spent on the southland village I don’t much care about

other niggles for me

Spoiler

Galdriel spent more time looking for Sauron than her husband

Almost every interaction is an argument.

Galadriel should already be 3500 years old or something and is acting like a stroppy teenager most of the time.

So many coincidental meetings

The orcs were amazingly good (whoever did the costumes and makeup/CGI on those?!) but cannot use a bow to save their lives in that forest chase.

The only Valinor gold they could find in an elven city was that dagger?

Elf slaves try really hard to escape, sacrificing their lives and then Adar just lets Arondir go with all his gear, to … give the humans a message? Is there MAYBE an excuse for that message in maybe they will panic and reveal the location of the smokey swordkey? Just lazy conclusion of that episode.

The powerpoint slide.

Some of the editing was just weird. Like when the 3 Numinor ships sail, it just sort of lingers weirdly. And left me thinking “I don’t reckon they will make it under those arches”

A lot of the dialogue was genuinely terrible

The only likeable characters were Arondir, Nisa and maybe Bronwyn. Elendir at a push but horse whispering lost him a podium place. Durin & Elrond seemed to have at least a faintly genuine relationship.

”you can all bugger off back to Valinor cos it’s a time of peace *oh FUCK I forgot the tree is shagged and we’re all going to die* “ - what?
Pretty much everyone can survive a pyroclastic flow

Elendir’s daughter was an absolute vacuum

 

[Benny]

I'm on the last episode

 

Spoiler

Just had an OH FUCK, I see now moment. Perfect vague lore knowledge and narrative direction coming together. I knew that had to be misdirection with the Moon Witches and what I assume is either a young Gandalf or Radagast.

 

[Benny]

I'm not blubbing. You're blubbing.

 

Spoiler

Honestly I think that ended incredibly well. Extremely satisfying even if they don't do another season if it.

 

The "follow your nose" line was a great way of confirming who it is without having to be so crass as spell it out. It's treating the viewer with respect.

 

I honestly hadn't twigged about Halbrand until he was at the Elven forge.

 

"The Stranger" though I knew I was right about right from the start but then that's because it fits in the lore I know. So when they tried to do the misdirection with the Moon Witches or whatever I was like "yeah, nah, ladies, you're barking up the wrong Wizard". It was a lovely bit of misdirection though, all the same.

 

Anyway, loved it, loved it, loved it. Was a really good example of how to adapt the heart and spirit of something and by God it's expensive.

 

So expensive.

[Benny]

Couple of favourite moments from the last episode:

 

Spoiler

When the Moon Bitches (is the best way I can describe them) realise they've fucked up and Gandalf opens up a can of whoop your ass into butterflies.

 

And the shot of him walking off with the Harfoot girl. It calls directly back to the opening of the first of the Lord of the Rings films, only in reverse, setting off instead of coming "home".

 

My only disappointment is there wasn't some more Durin and Disa.

 

[Thor]

I know I've grumbled in the past about your posting style @Benny, but I have enjoyed your journey of posts in this thread about this show.

 

 

You dickhead.

 

 

[Benny]

I've just seen some comments above about lack of character development.

 

Have to disagree with that loads. There's huge amounts of it going on in little looks, subtle acting and in many things that are left "unsaid" than said. Which to my mind feels a lot like the feeling I get from reading the books.

 

And regardless of that, it captures the feeling of a historical epic playing out in from of you, much like the source material, which means it gets carried a lot by the themes and overall sweep of the narrative.

 

Plus Elrond and Durin's bromance. I defy anyone to convince me that isn't a great screen relationship.

[kensei]

Was this a good Tolkien adaptation? God no. I'll spare you the full 10,000 essay on why. It bears as much relation to Tolkien as the Lucifer show does to the comic.

 

But Lucifer was a fun show in its own right and generally well liked. On its own terms, was this a good show? Also no.

 

Baffled by the positive reaction here. This commits every prequel sin that the Star Wars prequels did and worse - explaining stuff that didn't need explained, creating connections that reduce the scope of the world - in a story with lots of natural connections anyway - mad fit in the gap retcons and giant wink to camera it's like poetry it rhymes dialogue.

 

But let's ignore that. The pacing was just weird, so much so that a few of the threads and characters we've been following didn't appear at all in the last episode, characters do a lot of incredibly stupid things, stupidly - just actually walk through the things Galadriel did this season and why she did them and despair or wonder what the actual point of the Numenor stuff was. This episode a few absolute depths for me

 

Spoiler

The key event of the Second Age, the fulcrum of the entire story, the forging of the Rings of Power, gets 15 minutes in the last episode. 

 

Galadriel, entirely focused on Sauron, neglects to mention he's back and has been involved in making the thing they really need.

 

And yet, there's the odd flash in there

 

Spoiler

Sauron tempting Galadriel was well done even if I think the target was misdirected.

 

Which hints at something better just enough for me to watch in hope of it finding its way to something better, rather than a full on Discovery hate watch.

[Thor]

Look out, here comes the Tom Bombadil, Tom Bambadillo, fanboyo. 

[Benny]

I'm baffled by many things, but I took this series on its own terms despite being worried it would be all "fanfic" and was pleasantly surprised. I even like

 

Spoiler

the Nori goodbye scene which I'm baffled why so many people hated. I liked Nori and the Harfoots (if maybe not the accent they used). And I felt I was just watching a warm and loving people saying goodbye to one of their own. The final shot walking along with G-dog was pretty great too.

 

[Benny]

21 minutes ago, kensei said:

 

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Galadriel, entirely focused on Sauron, neglects to mention he's back and has been involved in making the thing they really need.

 

 

Spoiler

When you look at how the last scene showing the rings is shot and is played - Elrond holding the scroll but forgetting about it etc. It's clear the allure of the power of the rings they have made is far greater than any misgivings about who was involved in it. You can see the desire on all of their faces. That was how I interpreted it anyway.

 

[kensei]

17 minutes ago, Benny said:

 

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When you look at how the last scene showing the rings is shot and is played - Elrond holding the scroll but forgetting about it etc. It's clear the allure of the power of the rings they have made is far greater than any misgivings about who was involved in it. You can see the desire on all of their faces. That was how I interpreted it anyway.

 

 

Spoiler

It's just so far from the text that Tolkien wrote. I don't really want to go deeper into it on a thread people are obviously hostile to book talk. 

 

But trying to take the show as is - the jump for Galadriel to not tell people that Sauron's back and he's involved in this is just too much. It remains plot by stupid. They try to cover this in a couple of ways - Sauron threatening her as the temptation fails and her suggesting another ring. But it fell flat for me both because of how Sauron was built up, Galadriel ultimately rejecting the temptation and what the audience knows about Sauron because this is prequel. Your mileage may vary.

 

I also think "Who / Where is Sauron?" is a pointless mystery box that traded the way the chance to do something interesting with him being known and how he influences the elves to make the rings. I genuinely was not expecting it to be done in 15 minutes. I thought it'd be a whole thread in Season 2.

 

[Benny]

I wanted to see if there were some interesting reviews or analysis of this series on YouTube, but nope, just videos made by the entire cottage industry of twats.

[Gommy]

Spoiler

Can someone please edit the follow your nose scene to flash up Gandalf in big letters like they did with Mordor that would amuse me.

 

[choddo]

8 hours ago, Benny said:

I've just seen some comments above about lack of character development.

 

Have to disagree with that loads. There's huge amounts of it going on in little looks, subtle acting and in many things that are left "unsaid" than said. Which to my mind feels a lot like the feeling I get from reading the books.

 

And regardless of that, it captures the feeling of a historical epic playing out in from of you, much like the source material, which means it gets carried a lot by the themes and overall sweep of the narrative.

 

Plus Elrond and Durin's bromance. I defy anyone to convince me that isn't a great screen relationship.

I picked that out specifically as the one decent relationship in the whole show. I was also convinced by Arondir’s love for Bronwyn. He was good and gave off a decent elf vibe. On the rest, we will have to agree to disagree

[choddo]

8 hours ago, Benny said:

I'm baffled by many things, but I took this series on its own terms despite being worried it would be all "fanfic" and was pleasantly surprised. I even like

 

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the Nori goodbye scene which I'm baffled why so many people hated. I liked Nori and the Harfoots (if maybe not the accent they used). And I felt I was just watching a warm and loving people saying goodbye to one of their own. The final shot walking along with G-dog was pretty great too.

 

Would have been fine if;

Spoiler

a. It wasn’t 3 times as long as it needed to be. I did think the family goodbye was touching. Nori herself is a highlight of the show. This is the girl they left behind with her family, right? Suddenly they give a shit?

b. They didn’t seem to care more about that than the death of Lenny Henry

c. The most poignant part of it, leaving her friend behind, was completely inexplicable.

The biggest crime for me though is Galadriel. My favourite character from the trilogy and she’s just become identikit badass woman fighter with a permanent grudge.

 

and most of the dialogue. Honestly.

 

I still thought it was worth watching but for the budget should have been so much better.

[Benny]

I think there's lots going on in it that people maybe aren't picking up on just because it's not explicit

 

Spoiler

Gandalf and Nori's relationship for example. She chose to help a stranger because it's the right thing to do, and through her influence she sets him on a path of goodness and light.

 

When he first arrives on Middle Earth he has literally been ripped from heaven. When they first meet you can see how he reacts in rage and confusion and terror. He doesn't know what has happened to him and this little creature is his anchor to the world.

 

The Elves processed their grief at losing their place in heaven over thousands of years, but for Gandalf he has to suddenly deal with the confusion and loss of being ripped from paradise all at once.

 

I think the actor really nailed that, but unfortunately a lot of that subtlety might be lost on people if they don't know why he seems to have such a depth of sadness in his performance. I think the actors really know their characters in this, even if it's not saying that much about them to the audience and leaving it up to them to pick up on things.

 

People seem to be dwelling on the Mordor title card bit. I think that's the only thing I can think of in the whole show that was genuinely misjudged.

 

I think it was done with a reasonable intention but executed poorly. But I didn't really dwell on it, no more than I dwelled on Legolas surfing. I just kind of forgot about it and moved on.

 

[choddo]

I got all that. It was about as subtle as a brick over the head He was actually fine, if only they hadn’t decided to

Spoiler

suddenly not need to spend time in special constellation land in order to get your brain working, just grab a staff instead. I’m gooood! Possibly the worst piece of dialogue in the whole show.

 

I suspect they even did it to make sure they could do the follow your nose bit.

 

edit: also, I never did understand why someone burped out of a meteor would know what a constellation looked like from the ground. Let alone why the witches were carrying around a stone tablet with it on.

 

I don’t think the Morder thing was misjudged, I thought it was downright criminal, treating us all like idiots AND looked completely amateurish. I can’t move on 

 

[Gotters]

As a non Tolkien reader and somebody who didn't watch the films more than once I suspect most of the key plot points and subtlety have gone right over my head on this, which left me with a very pretty (you have to say this, like when somebody has an awful child and you say 'nice smile') but ultimately very dull show.

 

I can see from this thread how it's landing well for those invested in the lore, but as somebody who wasn't it left us cold, to the point we won't watch a second season of it.