The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[Mikes]

38 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Oh man, didn't like what I saw in those pics. The whole 'all over Middle Earth' thing. Just feels very fan-ficcy to me.

 

It needs to read in its context - it's not for you and me, it's for people new to the setting. It needs to include recognisable, if mean-nothin, phrases hung around a few key details.

[Mikes]

In a few comments on facebook - I can't help myself - and am very much "Mate, if you're worried about a few black actors. If you're worried about believability in a world that was flat until it's god got bored and oh wait that's not your problem never mind done here."

[kensei]

5 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

What is a "high doom"?

 

Beren had to go retrieve a Simaril, basically the Ring macguffinn equivalent of the Simarillion, off Sauron's boss to be allowed the hand of Luthien, who was also the daughter of a demigod. She would up taking the fate of men after literally singing Elf Hades a song so beautiful he cried.

 

Tuor was Blessed by Elf Poseiden, was generally heroic and is the only man to be granted immortality and live among the elves.

 

That sort of thing.

[kensei]

59 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Galadriel in armour and the number of original characters is a big warning klaxon.

 

So there's some suggestion Galadriel as an "Amazon" but that's definitely off. She'd no part in the First Age and while she ruled kingdoms in the second there's no suggestion she fought anywhere.

 

Elrond did, if they needed a familiar character.

[kensei]

Also yes, I am a gigantic nerd.

[Chindie]

I'm not 100% on the pre-LoTR lore but my impression was Galadriel is extremely powerful but never really gets involved in any of the first conflict against Sauron, and simply strengthens Lothlorien over that time. The first time she actually does anything against him is when the White Council attacks Dol Guldur, but that's beyond the scope of this show. And even then it's implied she's so powerful that she doesn't really need a weapon or armour, she's so powerful she is a weapon.

 

I can see why you'd want to use her in such a show, to my knowledge the Second Age isn't overflowing with important female characters and you kinda need to have some, but in doing so you neglect the lore of the character.

[Mikes]

There's plenty of room for her to fight. She was present at conflict, or in proximity to conflicts, and it wasn't expressed how he acted during them, so she could have physically fought. 

I don't think she would have, but that's assumptions, and let's not fight she's thousands of years old by this point. She's going to get bored and try new things. 

[Festoon]

8 hours ago, kensei said:

 

Elrond did, if they needed a familiar character.

 

He's there too.

[davidcotton]

10 hours ago, kensei said:

 

So there's some suggestion Galadriel as an "Amazon" but that's definitely off. She'd no part in the First Age and while she ruled kingdoms in the second there's no suggestion she fought anywhere.

 

Elrond did, if they needed a familiar character.

Wonder if Galadriel is a prime subscriber?

[kensei]

12 hours ago, Mikes said:

There's plenty of room for her to fight. She was present at conflict, or in proximity to conflicts, and it wasn't expressed how he acted during them, so she could have physically fought. 

I don't think she would have, but that's assumptions, and let's not fight she's thousands of years old by this point. She's going to get bored and try new things. 

 

She's apparently "Commander of the Northern Armies" in this. That would not escape without Tolkien mentioning it. I just think it's a poor fit - she is more a ruler and there seems to be plenty of roles there for that.

 

In terms of power, it's more magic and wisdom than fighting and I don't think she's significant until she gets the ring. Even then, she can't contend with Sauron. 

 

The defining feature of Elves is the desire to preserve the past and memory. They occasionally coke up with a new idea and set forth their power and so on, but generally like poking at stuff is a man thing.

 

It might be very good, but some of the choices do seem like they'll feed Reddit sub forum arguments for years.

[Captain Kelsten]

55 minutes ago, kensei said:

The defining feature of Elves is the desire to preserve the past and memory. They occasionally coke up with a new idea and set forth their power and so on, but generally like poking at stuff is a man thing.

Bunch of elves off their tits on coke and brainstorming new ideas sounds like an amazing show. 

[Festoon]

4 hours ago, kensei said:

They occasionally coke up with a new idea and set forth their power and so on, but generally like poking at stuff is a man thing.

 

Unintentional accuracy.

[Festoon]

Wow!

 

 

[Chindie]

4 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Wow!

 

 

 

Ah, confirmation the first 2 episodes will be the best in the series.

[Festoon]

1 minute ago, Chindie said:

 

Ah, confirmation the first 2 episodes will be the best in the series.

 

I'm hoping the first few mins are Illuvatar singing.

[kensei]

1 hour ago, Festoon said:

Wow!

 

 

 

Alright, I'm in for this at least. Interesting to see what they pick. Presumably we'll see Morgoth?

[footle]

1 hour ago, Festoon said:

 

I'm hoping the first few mins are Illuvatar singing.

you mean the first 117 minutes, followed but the complete tale of morgoth in minutes 118-120.

[Mikes]

Lenny Henry voiced Ungoliant!

[kensei]

2 hours ago, footle said:

you mean the first 117 minutes, followed but the complete tale of morgoth in minutes 118-120.

 

If we're stuck with the Appendices in Lord of the Rings, it's remarkably brief on the First Age so no Music of the Ainur. This would deny this obviously correct take.

 

Beren's probably the most mentioned in Lord of the Rings. 

[Chindie]

Ah, why bother with Morgoth, it'll only confuse people...

 

[footle]

2 hours ago, Chindie said:

Ah, why bother with Morgoth, it'll only confuse people...

 

just call him melkor…

[The Disco]

It won't really matter to 95% of the viewers though as they won't have read any of the books.  Also, I imagine 99% of the viewers won't have ready any of the Silmarillion, so I guess it would matter even less.  All that will matter is if the story they present is comprehensible and engadging, and follows some of the main beats of the Silmarillion.

 

To back up my point a little, I started to read The Silmarillion about ten yearas ago after falling in love with the LOTR films (hadn't then, and still haven't now, read any of the books apart from The Hobbit), but gave up a few chapters in after slogging though about six papragraphs that were just a wall of names and how the were related to each other...  I re-read it about four times to take some of it in, before giving up and putting the book down.

[Festoon]

I wondr if there's something quite hermetically sealed about Tolkien's legendarium that just doesn't lend itself as a setting for other stories? Maybe the second age setting will help.

 

Videogames tried and failed many times. It all feels off-brand.

 

Then again, there was this banger.

[Nick R]

11 hours ago, footle said:

just call him melkor…

 

Always preferred Melkor as a name for that character. Even for an author who came up with names like "Mirkwood" and "Mount Doom", calling your Satan figure "More Goth" always seemed a bit too on the nose.

 

(Edit: I've just realised that @jonamok said pretty much the same thing on the previous page.)

[Nick R]

4 hours ago, The Disco said:

To back up my point a little, I started to read The Silmarillion about ten yearas ago after falling in love with the LOTR films (hadn't then, and still haven't now, read any of the books apart from The Hobbit), but gave up a few chapters in after slogging though about six papragraphs that were just a wall of names and how the were related to each other...  I re-read it about four times to take some of it in, before giving up and putting the book down.

 

The book does have an extremely useful index of names, with helpful little reminders of who each character is and where each place is! But even with that, I remember I frequently had to look up the page number of their first appearance, to remember exactly who they were.

[Festoon]

I think the Silmarillion is a style thing - once the style clicks it's grand to read,

[Darren]

The Silmarillion is basically the bible of Middle Earth, and it’s largely written in that biblical style, very dry and “factual.” It’s not written at all like a novel. The bible similarities extend to it being a collection of separate books/stories, many of which are only tangentially related to the others. But together they make up the creation myth and ancient history/mythology of that world.

 

I find it quite a beautiful piece of writing from beginning to end but I accept it’s not for everyone.

 

Tolkien himself wrote many of these stories multiple times at different levels of granularity, and the versions in the Silmarillion are the most abstracted, highest level versions in each case. He never properly finished any of these versions, but I think his son did a brilliant job pulling them together for the Silmarillion, and then again many years later for a much more in-depth, novel-like version of one of the stories which was published as The Children of Hurin, and is a much easier read.

[footle]

8 hours ago, Nick R said:

 

Always preferred Melkor as a name for that character. Even for an author who came up with names like "Mirkwood" and "Mount Doom", calling your Satan figure "More Goth" always seemed a bit too on the nose.

 

(Edit: I've just realised that @jonamok said pretty much the same thing on the previous page.)

I’d buy that if Goth had been a term prior to Tolkien writing. Gothic rock didn’t really turn up till the late 70s, after he was dead… and his stories preceded even the first use of it.

[monkeydog]

I think The Goths predated Tolkien's writing by a fair amount.

[footle]

40 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

I think The Goths predated Tolkien's writing by a fair amount.

ah, the visigoths (slaps head  )