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Altered Carbon - Netflix Cyberpunk

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2 hours ago, jonamok said:

Just lazy world building, pile loads of cool ideas in with no internal logic.

 

 

Although a few things in your list annoy me too, like the "solid" AI, overall I really didn't mind the lack of explanations. I much prefer worlds where you are thrown in at the deep end and learn about it as you go. It's so much more believable than endless exposition or lengthy introductions telling you exactly what is what in this universe. I thought they did a good job with Altered Carbon - the intro has only the barest of info, and you pick up the rest as events unfold, including the lingo.

 

As for the technology, yes in sci-fi novels it can be cool to have every bit of futurisic wizardry explained - but that doesn't work in TV. For the purposes of this show it really doesn't matter. The aliens and universe are background to the central plot and don't need any detailed explanation. You pick up from the tidbits that the show leaves you enough to understand the basics. Look at Bladerunner, Aliens, whatever. There's no deep dive into any of their universes either, you just see what you see and the rest doesn't really matter.

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It matters to me, I'm afraid. You can't go all clever gritty cyberpunk and then introduce a load of magical tech bollocks without earning it.

 

In Episode 10, Poe is clearly 

Spoiler

made from solid matter. The assassin dude interferes with the 'fields' controlling him, so he falls apart into nano-ash. But he's certainly solid, with energy flowing through his cyber-veins etc. So all that matter is routinely beamed around the hotel instantaneously.

Matter teleportation basically. I wonder was that in the book, or something they thought would look cool in the show without thinking it through.

 

Also, how far in the future is this set? Tak's been on ice for 250 years. Before that he lived on (or traveled out to) the alien colony worlds - I couldn't really follow his childhood story (zzzzzzz). So we'd colonised far off worlds more than 300 years ago? His forest lady friend invents the stack tech 250 years ago, takes it back to earth...everyone on earth has it from kids to adults, all while he was already on ice - with some kind of early-adopter kit? When he's spun-up (and not for the first time it appears) the world is utterly different, humanity is utterly different, in a subjective instant - but he barely notices?

 

It's all inconsistent bollocks basically isn't it?

 

 

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I was mostly disappointed that the story really was just a gumshoe investigation with a bit of a fight at the end. If you do gumshoe in Sci-fi it's supposed to go completely nuts at the end and suddenly transform into a different genre of universe altering stakes.

 

At the very least, Kovacs should have turned out to have been Punished Snake all along or something.

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It is a bit stupid that apparently in 250 years hardly anything has changed, at least not enough for him to be remotely interested. I suppose you could argue that he's gone through so many bodies, worlds and lifetimes that he's not really wowed by anything any more. What I took from it (not that I'm defending that lack of forethought in the worldbuilding) is that stacks have made humanity stagnate.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Cochese said:

I was mostly disappointed that the story really was just a gumshoe investigation with a bit of a fight at the end. If you do gumshoe in Sci-fi it's supposed to go completely nuts at the end and suddenly transform into a different genre of universe altering stakes.

 

At the very least, Kovacs should have turned out to have been Punished Snake all along or something.

 

It was kind of refreshing to have a self-contained, non-universe shattering story for once... 

 

That is until you find out his ex-lover/leader was the inventor of humanities greatest ever technology 

<_<

 

By the way, if anyone likes the detective sci-fi stuff, I highly recommend the novels Great North Road by Peter F. Hamilton (set in future Newcastle, but has some off-world sci-fi action too) - and also the wonderful concept of The City & The City by China Miéville.

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Had a look at a wiki, as I've no plan to read the books.

 

It appears that humanity found alien tech on Mars from a vast (now disappeared) alien civilisation, variously called Martians or Elders. This included the tech for stacks and astrogation data to habitable planets in a system 180 light years away (would become Harlan's World). Clones were sent out by ship, and their minds needlecast to the bodies out there. In the absence of FTL that implies a huge span of time from whenever the alien tech was found, to when Kovacs is born, plus another 250 years since. This show must be 500-1000 years+ from today. But street level on Earth looks like BR2019 or 2049, and VR is still low-res!

 

Also, at the end of Ep 10, re what happens to Lizzie:

 

Spoiler

If Poe can just upload her to Head in the Clouds (great name by the way) with standard gear, why is backing up your consciousness considered such a Meth perk? Is it that the data can't be copied without needlecasting - so without the big kit you can routinely transfer from one stack to another, but you can't copy the data from one to the other?

 

And, how did Lizzie manage to change the appearance of the new body she was beamed into so it looked like her? That was a whole new level of tech we hadn't seen before - or did I miss something?

 

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@jonamok the shows universe diverged enough from the books that you can’t really make comparisons from one to the other and say they’re inconsistent.

 

Your first question is one of expense, and linked to the distaste that people have for AI. I believe the show mentions how long it’s been since Poe has had a guest?

 

Your second question is a good point. They were careful to set up the scene in the fight pit, but I can’t remember what they’d previously said about the sleeves up in the clouds. Tbh, I saw that as being more metaphorical, rather than physical, when I watched it.

 

and it wasn’t in the book, which is much more careful on consistency and building the whole thing up than the series is

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Maybe I missed it, but why did the main guy need to make a copy of himself to send to sex island? Just to distract the bad guy while he was sneaking into the rape satellite? 

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@footle Yes, I’d assumed it was metaphorical too until Purecock instantly recognised her. I could buy her parents seeing the person inside. But it’s less likely he would.

 

Anyway, I’ll add it to the list.

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10 hours ago, Alan Stock said:

It is a bit stupid that apparently in 250 years hardly anything has changed...

If the human race is technically immortal, or at least the people with the wealth and influence are, I don't think that anything would really change in a relatively short space of time.

 

I think that without finite lifespans, we'd become stagnant and stuck in time. 

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4 hours ago, Sartre84 said:

My question is who even owns an AI hotel that hasn't had a guest in the last 50 years??

 

The AI.

 

2 hours ago, John Edward Gammell said:

If the human race is technically immortal, or at least the people with the wealth and influence are, I don't think that anything would really change in a relatively short space of time.

 

I think that without finite lifespans, we'd become stagnant and stuck in time. 

 

That is certainly a theme, particularly earth versus the colonies. Also innovation is targeted at those with money, so better backups, synthetic sleeves etc.

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For Lizzie

 

Spoiler

She needlecasts into a synth sleeve (synthetic human, basically an android). Presumably the one in head in the clouds is a super expensive fancy one that can morph. Probably the sort of thing that customers up there would like.

 

pretty sure the pit fighting owner has something similar so it’s not straight out of nowhere.  They’re meant to be unpleasant to be in, which is why everyone isn’t using them..

 

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On 02/03/2018 at 23:12, Broker said:

Maybe I missed it, but why did the main guy need to make a copy of himself to send to sex island? Just to distract the bad guy while he was sneaking into the rape satellite? 

 

Yes.

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I'm listening to the book again now, after having just gone through the series in the last few days. The show is quite a different take and really confused me at its deviations from the books... just... like... why?

 

Spoiler

Why make Kovacs a terrorist? That makes no sense, he's suppose to be the best of the best elite special forces, infiltrator, needlecasting badass... Not some hippie, living in the woods with "the woman who figured out the alien tech" rebel leader. Hmmm... And his sister! Don't get me started on his sister what the fuck is she doing, why have they? What was the point? FFS. Annoying to say the least.

 

BUT, I did enjoy it. Thought the fight scenes were proper good and that society was as stagnant as it was supposed to be. Just imagine if we got this tech today, can you imagine all the leaders of today, all the wealthy people sticking around for the next few hundred years? We need the youth to make us change, embrace the new and move on from traditions. Fucking Reese Mogg and Boris Johnson still running the country in two hundred years.... jesus, can you imagine? Farage still around FFS.

 

Also, they didn't explain very well that society had been through several booms and bust, there had been some major wars, that AIs took advantage of the markets to buy themselves out. So Poe owned the hotel itself.  Good fun, well shot, acting was okay really, script was poor in places, better in others. Yeah, not bad really. Well worth having a look if you like this sort of thing.

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Just finished this last night, while I enjoyed it overall and didn't try to think too hard on it that last episode was pretty underwhelming . Can understand how it turned people off , it took me a fair while to get through the series. There's a fair bit  of scope with this universe  you'd think  if they do another series they can take barbershop in strange and new directions... 

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Haven't read the book which would probably explain things, but how did humans get to the stage where they had stacks built into their bodies? Is it an operation done when young? or are we grown in factories ala Brave New World? And if it was a post birth process then why have the religious people got stacks? 

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I’m pretty sure the show mentioned them being implanted at 18 months old, or something like that. Could be mandatory under law or something, although I can’t remember exactly how it was stated.

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And I meant to ask; the second book was 99p on Kindle a few weeks ago, so I bought that (the first was still £5.99 or something, so didn’t get that yet). Would it make sense as a follow on to the tv show, or do they differ so widely I really need to read the first book?

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43 minutes ago, MrPogo said:

And I meant to ask; the second book was 99p on Kindle a few weeks ago, so I bought that (the first was still £5.99 or something, so didn’t get that yet). Would it make sense as a follow on to the tv show, or do they differ so widely I really need to read the first book?

 

They are all basically standalone stories, but there are some references you wont get unless you read them in order. Nothing major though.

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47 minutes ago, MrPogo said:

And I meant to ask; the second book was 99p on Kindle a few weeks ago, so I bought that (the first was still £5.99 or something, so didn’t get that yet). Would it make sense as a follow on to the tv show, or do they differ so widely I really need to read the first book?

 

Albeit...

 

Spoiler

You might wonder why there is no mention of his sister, nor the "Rebel Forces" that trained him to be an Envoy and why he just seems to be the Sci-Fi version of Andy Mcnab's Nick Stone instead. With good reason, the show added them for... reasons... no I have no idea.

 

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I kept expecting the Stargate SG1 crew to wander past in the background during the interminable forest scenes.

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9 minutes ago, Harsin said:

I kept expecting the Stargate SG1 crew to wander past in the background during the interminable forest scenes.

Right?!

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38 minutes ago, Danster said:

 

Albeit...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

You might wonder why there is no mention of his sister, nor the "Rebel Forces" that trained him to be an Envoy and why he just seems to be the Sci-Fi version of Andy Mcnab's Nick Stone instead. With good reason, the show added them for... reasons... no I have no idea.

 

 

Yeah. Started reading and quickly realised a lot of the major events in the tv show (at least in ongoing terms) either didn’t happen in the book, or at least not in  the first one!

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On 05/04/2018 at 13:08, MrPogo said:

 

Yeah. Started reading and quickly realised a lot of the major events in the tv show (at least in ongoing terms) either didn’t happen in the book, or at least not in  the first one!

 

They merged characters, including ones who don’t ever exist as people Tak meets in the shows universe.

 

Virginia == Quell, but without the religious overtones you get later in the books associated with Quell.

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The first one didn't (at 10 episodes) so this shouldn't either. Loved the first series so really happy to hear there's a second. I really liked all of the first season's cast though so I'm not sure if it will grab me in the same way. I've also only seen Anthony Mackie in Marvel stuff (I think) where he always seems to be cracking a joke so it'll be interesting to see what he's like in this. 

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I've only got round to watching the first two episodes yesterday, oh! my this is good! :o

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